Need clarification on tenderfoot rqt 11 - poisonous plants

[packsaddle 753]

Trev, I think that's why BSA bans it.

When I was a boy, I was fascinated by men who chewed tobacco. That was a time when chewing tobacco was purchased in a form that resembled the black rubber heel of a boot. During my days of experimentation I can attest that it had a similar consistency and, perhaps, taste.

But on one rainy night some of those guys were standing around under a porch roof. There were a few frogs up near the porch in the rain. One of the men spit on one of the frogs. It died almost instantaneously. I never tried chewing again. The men, as we know today, were hooked. They all died too, probably earlier in life than they would have... but most of them died of cancer.

 

As an anthropologist, you may be able to confirm the accounts I've read of Siberians recycling the psychoactive agent of Amanita mushrooms by drinking each other's urine while eating the fungi. Our culture just seems to have adopted a different favored poison. By the way, have you ever read "The Sotweed Factor" by John Barth? I sure wish it would be produced as a film sometime. There's a scene involving Pocahontas, John Smith, and an eggplant...wow.

 

ASM59, I hope you are aware of how many plants there are that have three leaflets. Blackberries, strawberries, clover, kudzu, for that matter most of the members of the pea family. Hundreds of plants. That rule could be problematic. You need to combine some other characteristics as well. But, best of all, the method employed by the SM in the original message is optimal. A person needs to have a 'feeling' for the plant that allows identification in all its morphs. That takes time and practice.

 

[ASM59 10]

Yes, I do realize that there are many plants with 3 leaves, but thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps to be more accurate, we try to teach the boys to be aware of the plants around them. If they are moving through the woods (hopefully on a trail) and they happen to catch a three leaved plant out of the corner of their eye, avoid it. It's more of an initial reaction type thing. Hopefully they know the basic shape and size of the poison ivy plant on the ground and what the vine looks like. So, to be more accurate; if it has 3 leaves, avoid it initially, until you have had a chance to really look at it to be sure that it is not poison ivy. Many of the boys have a good idea of what the plant looks like, but may not be 100% sure.

I hope that helps to understand better what I like to see the boys taught.

 

ASM59

[CalicoPenn 729]

Knowing what the vine looks like is as important to poison ivy identification as knowing what the leaves look like.

 

At our cub scout day camp there was a hickory tree with a very healthy crown of leaves. A perfect place for getting under in a small shower, right? Except, the tree itself was dead. Snaking up the tree were a number of vines, all growing to the top of the tree. The vines weren't grape and didn't look like Virginia Watercreeper. The leaves covered the crown of the tree, and it once being a mature hickory, that put the crown of the tree about 90-100 foot up. It took binoculars to confirm the suspicion that the vines were poison ivy.

 

Calico

 

 

[SSScout 1615]

Hoo Boy...

 

After several summers as a surveyor, (rodman, chainman, gofor... )I can claim INTIMATE knowledge of PI. I have come home from work wearing gloves so I wouldn't touch my car steering wheel. I could not even sneeze safely.

 

PI always has three leaves in a group. These leaves can be as big as your hand, as small as a quarter. The leaves can be smooth edged, or have a notch or two in the edge. It can be a ground vine, a small shrub, a 4 inch in diameter vine growing up out of sight on the side of a century old tree. Tree vines tend to be very hairy. Leaves turn golden reddish in the fall, but usually don't all fall off. Pretty red berries. Everything about the plant is affective, and can cause the rash: roots, leaves, stem, berries. Your dog can give you the rash after his romp in the woods. Your boots can give you the rash when you tak'em off. Your pant legs can give you the rash when you pull'em off. Double the amount of detergent when washing affected clothing.

Wash hands and the rest of you with the strongest soap and hottest water you can stand.

 

Pretend you are a surgeon, going into surgery and you don't dare touch anything for fear of contamination (!true!).

 

Once the toxin is washed off, the blisters will not spread the rash, but being sure the toxin oil is eliminated is hard to judge, so often folks will think the rash spreads itself. The liquid in the blisters, when and if they break,(don't encourage that, bacterial infection can happen) should be carefully dabbed off with a clean cloth or paper towel. Some say the blister liquid will spread the rash, I think not, but washing the oil off before it can really soak into the skin is important. Really bad occassions should seek medical help, especially if it is around the face or genital areas. The rash will show up within 12 hours or less, if it is to happen at all. Wash as soon as possible.

 

Calamine lotion, Ivy Dry, other OTC stuff will help dry the rash and sooth the itch.

 

Folk medicine says Jewel Weed rubbed on the rash will neutralize the toxin (no opinion there).

 

Yep, and my dad could pull it up bare handed too with out effect.

 

Brrrr, I get itchy just thinking about it. Oh, the irony of God's creation.

 

 

[Trevorum 24]

S3, I hear your pain. I also work outdoors (more so when I was younger!) and I know PI and PO by sight. By instinct almost. But not - it turns out - below ground. Years ago, I was working on a site in California. The surface had been stripped of vegetation and I did not recognize the many PO roots we were working through. Go figure - roots are just as toxic as leaves and stems!! That was one itchy winter ...

 

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

I too was once 'immune' to poison ivy. That changed with repeated exposure and age. In my thirties, while cutting and hauling firewood, I paid the price. There was, however, a hidden dividend...a silver lining to the itchy cloud.

My forearms were absolutely wretched with the rash. But I would adjust the tap water until the temperature was so hot that on unaffected skin I could barely stand it. Then I would expose the rash to the hot water.

For long minutes, the sensation was, let us say, diabolically good. Mmmmmmmmm. It was indescribably pleasant, indescribable at least without resorting to language that would be inappropriate for this thread.

Anyway, once the 'pleasure' subsided and it started to burn, I would stop the treatment. The itch would be gone for many hours. I would actually look forward to the next treatment.

There is a well-known neurophysiological explanation for this but suffice to say, when I get poison ivy on that rare occasion now, I just look forward to the hot water and smile.

[SSScout 1615]

" Wash the rash with soap and water often, dry it gently with a paper towel and it'll clear up in a week or ten days. Treat it aggressively with Ivy Dry and Calamine and you'll be clear in about seven days to a week and a half"

+ My Doctor +

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

I''d say the SM has your lads welfare and well being on his mind. He may be adding something,I don''t think so, he is asking your son to exhibit practical knowledge.

 

Pick your battles.

 

If not, your son, the SM and you are going to have a great couple of years together.

 

Getting signed off isn''t what this is all about. Keeping your son safe from a potentially painful problem is. The SM went out of his way to cut some samples, you are worried about getting singed off. The "hours" would be well spent. Ever had to take steroids so that you could open your Ivy swollen right eye? I have. Get the oil on your hands, need to relieve yourself????, got the oil and a rash where the sun doesn''t shine to dry your blisters. More steroids.

 

As far as the SM teaching maybe some of the older boys aren''t worth learning from. Do you really want the bad ones teaching your son to avoid a bad spot?

 

Think about it?

[hot_foot_eagle 13]

Regardless of how the requirement is taught, the skill is important enough to warrant reinforcement as often as the opportunity presents itself. At Webelos resident camp I would point out poison ivy nearly every time I saw it, and also point out other plants commonly mistaken for it while explaining the differences. While I would hope that the boy leadership would be able to teach and verify this skill in a troop, I don''t think that an adult leader should be discouraged from doing it either.

 

SSScout, I too worked a while on a survey party. What is it with the unwritten rule that property corners and points on line must be placed in poison ivy thickets? I itch just thinking about the weed.