scout skill MBs and troop program

[Lisabob]

I've been looking more closely at the camping, cooking, and hiking MBs in preparation for summer camp. Our scouts are going to a camp that is pretty serious about having certain requirements done prior to camp, such as camping requirements 9a & 9b (20 nights and 2 of 6 activities - here's the link if you want to check it out: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Camping)

 

I've reached the conclusion that it would be extremely difficult for a scout to complete these MBs in the course of a typical year (or maybe even two) with our troop, even if they attended everything. The troop camps 10 months of the year so it isn't the frequency (the 20 nights of camping is a snap). Rather it is the nature of the camp outs. For example, the guys almost always use big 2-burner propane stoves. That makes it impossible to do some of the cooking MB requirements, which mandate open fire and backpack stove cooking. (side note, why don't they mandate dutch oven cooking too?) For camping, 9b is a problem and for hiking, requirements 5 & 6 are problems. We just don't do enough of those activities, often enough, or for long enough distances. We did a biking camp out a year or so ago but no way did it meet the length requirement for the camping MB - that sort of thing.

 

More backpacking and hiking and more varied cooking methods have been pushed by several of the adults but most of the boys show no interest and so they choose other activities instead when they do their annual planning meeting. And the activities they choose are also great, lots of fun and exciting for the boys. They do an annual orienteering/crime solving camp out in conjunction with area law enforcement that is always a huge hit and they're doing an aviation themed camp next year, for example. Last weekend they went to Wright-Pat AFB. Really cool stuff. But I can't help feeling they're missing something important in terms of traditional "scout skill" activities here too.

 

So to complete MBs like cooking, hiking, camping, a boy in our troop would have to either work on them for several years or he would have to arrange special circumstances on his own (like a patrol camp out, or a long hike that wasn't part of a regular camp out, etc.).

 

Here's the irony - when we joined, this troop was known as the "serious camping" troop in town. Since then, one of the other troops has gotten big time into backpacking and the third (much smaller) troop in town has done a lot with orienteering, pioneering, and cooking.

 

Is that typical? Is it supposed to be that way? When we talk of being "boy led" and yet the boys are leading away from what many people probably see as the basics of scouting activities, how do you correct course (or can you?) without further limiting the boys' opportunities to decide for themselves?

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

A tough question, I remember having a thread with the title something along the lines of "Boy Lead or Boy Lead into the Ground"...

 

But first, let me use hyperbole, you say you have a boy lead troop which is being lead away from scouting skills, what if the youth decided it wanted to do a Wine Tasting event or a Casino night complete with cigars and porn?

 

What would you do? Go along with it because the Troop is boy lead or ask how the Troops program fits in with the Scout Oath and Law?

 

How do the scouts see a Campout? As an opportunity to complete advancement requirements, a time to do fun and interesting things or as a vacation from home? Hopefully its to have fun and do interesting things and that they acheive advancement requirements along the way is a bonus. As camping is Eagle required, why not mention that and see what happens. Then again, having a tradition that Camping merit badge is earned through patrol campouts really isnt that bad either.

 

Have any of your PLC attended NYLT? What type of training do they get? We once had a poster here who thought every minute of every campout should be dedicated to accomplishing some scouting goal, which may be extreme, but scouting is the reason for the outings, the fun and vacation from home is a side benefit.

[Beavah]

Sounds like your boys are planning a wonderful program, and deserve your support.

 

Merit badges aren't really supposed to be offered as a "whole troop" exercise. Yah, dat happens sometimes, eh, when we're short on counselors and a bunch of kids all want to work on a badge together (or when an adult/advancement-driven program runs a bit amok ).

 

So I wouldn't really worry about your troop not offerin' a whole-troop MB experience. Individual boys who want to do Campin' MB, or Hiking MB, or Cooking, or Cycling, or Climbin', or Whitewater, or any of the many other cool "scout skill"/outdoor badges can do it the real way - by findin' a counselor, and workin' on their own with a few buddies or a patrol. Might be a good way to get some patrol outings goin'. And nuthin' says a couple of guys workin' on a badge can't do campfire cookin' for their patrol on one of your regular outings, right? (fire bans aside).

 

Dat's the way the MB program is designed to work. As long as your troop is providin' reasonable T-2-1 opportunities each year, the rest of it is up to the boys.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[FScouter]

My experience has been that boys plan activities they are familiar with or know something about. If they know nothing about backpacking, or dutch ovens, or open fire camping, or, they wont think to add them into the plan. There is nothing wrong with the SM suggesting and supporting activities outside the limited experiences of the boys. Ill bet the boys didnt think up an orienteering crime solving event, yet you say it is a huge hit.

 

Advancement being one of the methods of Scouting, the SM can look at the ideas presented by the boys, and make suggestions to them that will include opportunities for advancement. Not to mean, OK boys, all campouts must include advancement check offs, but rather, Hey guys, I know a cool way to make biscuits on a stick and if you include open fire cooking in the campout Ill show you how to do it. At the end of the campout, guess what? Some advancement requirements have been met, without making that the goal. More important, the boys experiences have been broadened.

[SR540Beaver]

Lisa,

 

I'm reminded of our failed attempt to start a new unit with all 11 year olds a few years back. We adults wanted it to be boy led and wanted the boys to plan their calendar. We'd ask them where they wanted to camp and we'd get deer in the headlight looks back from them. Heck, they had just come from Cubs and were used to making s'mores while the parents set up camp. Our job as adult leaders is to teach and train the boys in leadership.....especially when there are no older boys to serve as examples as in our case. The boys need to take as much control as possible, but the adults need to occasionally adjust the rudder to keep them on track. That is best done thru leading questions and suggestions rather than dictating.

 

In our annual planning, adults are along for the ride. The boys pick and chose the where and what with adults offering suggestions or asking questions to bring a little more thought and clarity. We try to do it in one whack instead of several. We could have the boys do it all themselves and then submit it to the committee only to have them have to rehash things later and resubmit. It is still boy led in our method, but we will bring up things like Webelos Woods and Camporee with a reminder that it is sometimes good to participate in some of the district events too. They decide if they want to do it or not. We simply throw out things to consider that they might not have the experience to think of.

 

One way to approach it is to remind them of younger guys needing advancement opportunities and/or Eagle required merit badges and ask what they can do to try and accommodate their fellow scouts within the annual planning.

 

Another approach we sometimes take is to periodically offer merit badges within the troop. Troop meeting time is NEVER used for this. There are particular Eagle required merit badges that we want to insure the quality of what is taught and learned. An adult in our troop who is registered as an MBC will offer the class and set up a schedule with the boys interested in taking it. They have to attend the sessions and do the work or they are out of luck. You could do something similar for something like Camping or Hiking. The requirements needed outside of summer camp could be done aside from the regular program the boys design.

[scoutldr]

"Dat's the way the MB program is designed to work. As long as your troop is providin' reasonable T-2-1 opportunities each year, the rest of it is up to the boys."

 

Beav, what are you saying??? You mean the boys are supposed to show initiative??? How in the world are the Eagle Mills supposed to stay in business? Our Eagle rate would drop back to 2% like it used to be!

 

Seriously, though, our guys almost never take Camping at summer camp. Too many other things to do that they can't get anywhere else. Nothing wrong with saying to them, "Camping is Eagle required, and that means you need to include X, Y and Z into your campout plans."

 

[ASM915]

Lisa,9b 2+4. Your talking a 2-3 hour hike with packs and a 2 hour canoe ride. What scout doesn't like canoeing? Set up a camp out where they backpack 4-5 miles up to the livery and canoe the 7 miler which usually takes 3 hours. Have lunch before hitting the river. Incorporate 9c into the event. Have a leader be at the livery with a vehicle to put the packs in, so you don't have to take them in the canoes.

 

By the way, which camp are you using for summer camp?

[Lisabob]

Thanks for your feedback.

 

I agree that the boys have picked a very nice program with a lot of appealing activities that are scout-related, mostly via the MB program. We're a larger troop (40-50 boys most of the time, including about 1/3 who are 15-17 years old) and part of what makes the troop successful in terms of recruiting and retention is that the boys have ownership of the activities. I don't want to take that away from them. So I don't know that this is so much "boy led into the ground," just maybe going in a different direction.

 

And no of course I don't want to see MB "classes" at camp outs or an Eagle Mill. The way things work now, many of the camp outs have a MB theme (rocketry, aviation, fishing, etc.) but very few of the boys actually pursue the MB. Most use the camp out as an intro to the subject, enjoy it, and then move on. A few really get the bug and decide to continue working on the MB. Actually I think that's the way things are supposed to work.

 

But I guess I do find it a little odd that a boy who is active with the troop and wants to do it would not be able to fulfill the activity portions of the camping MB, of all things! We have the same problem with some of the skill requirements for T-2-1. For example this weekend we have several boys who have been active for a year or more with the troop, who are holding their own camp out so that they can finally do the cooking requirements for 2nd Cl. Why? Because in the last six months there has only been one time when they've had an opportunity to cook over an open fire (the rest of the time it has either been big propane stoves or troop cooking due to travel distances/time constraints/too much program crammed into too little time). If they didn't realize that that was their one chance and missed it, they were out of luck - which is what happened. Last year something similar happened w/ the map & compass 5 mile hike requirement for 2nd Cl. and a bunch of guys had to organize something on their own at the last minute to get that done, if they wanted to finish 2nd Cl. before going to summer camp (where the camp has rank requirements for certain MB classes).

 

I'm happy to see them do things on their own and maybe they will learn something about planning and making the most of opportunities when they present themselves, but it does also seem like these are the sorts of activities that should be built into the troop program on a regular basis already...right?

 

We have one (long-time, very good) ASM who is now talking about finding a different troop to serve because he is frustrated with the lack of traditional scout skill focus in the troop these days. Maybe that would be a better fit for him, though I'd hate to lose him. His solution is to tell the boys they "have to" include at least one or two hiking/backpacking/wilderness survival type activities in the calendar, and to give the annual planning task to the PLC instead of opening it to the whole troop as things are now (where, this year, attendance among older scouts was poor for some reason). I kind of think the former is a bit heavy handed, though I'm undecided about the latter. But I do like Fscouter's and Beaver's comments about offering more guidance to the boys who do the planning via some leading questions and offering ideas that they might not have considered. Maybe there's the solution, within the confines of whatever themes the boys have picked.

 

Thanks again for your feedback. I am finding I see this in new ways every time I look at it. To borrow Barry's phrase, I love this scouting stuff!

 

 

 

 

[Scouter&mom]

One thing I do is collect the tourism brochures (especially the glossy magazines) for state parks, and interesting places close by. The ones done by the regional tourism boards are great. I take these on campouts and to summer camp. When we are sitting around hunting shade, I will pull them out, start leafing through them and commenting on the cool things and places that are "only an hour from home" Helps them think of places and things that they may not have known existed. I make sure I bring them along with my atlas, when the PLC has their planning meeting(s).

[John-in-KC]

Lisa wrote, in part:

 

"For example this weekend we have several boys who have been active for a year or more with the troop, who are holding their own camp out so that they can finally do the cooking requirements for 2nd Cl. Why? Because in the last six months there has only been one time when they've had an opportunity to cook over an open fire (the rest of the time it has either been big propane stoves or troop cooking due to travel distances/time constraints/too much program crammed into too little time)."

 

This is where the Scoutmaster really earns that big Scouting paycheck. Setting situations which are conducive to youth advancement is part of being the Program Officer! We're not charged with ensuring that Johnny gets 1st Class 3c done; but we are responsible for providing the environment as often as we can.

 

How can we do this?

 

First, mentoring the SPL... "Would you think it a good idea if you had the Quartermaster bring the fire barrels on this campout, so cooks can get open fires done?"

 

... alternatively, to SPL and PLC "Do we want to make it a troop standard that we bring the fire barrels on most weekends, so we can better use Dutch Ovens and cook over wood fires?"

 

They're boys! As Rush Limbaugh says "they have minds full of mush." I take that to mean they don't have all knowledge and wisdom yet... one of our jobs as Scouters is to help them find good ideas and best practices. Sometimes the ah-HA moment works best, sometimes guided coaching works best.

[SR540Beaver]

Allowing the boys to fail in a controlled environment is a good thing.......until they continue to fail at the same blooming thing month after month and year after year. It is then helpful to give them a clue.

[gwd-scouter]

Remembering a campout we had a last weekend prompted me to go back and read lisabob's post again. This was a "back to basics" campout at our local state park and made me realize that our guys have done few activities this year that allowed them to learn and practice their skills. In fact, the boys changed the theme of this campout specifically because many of them needed a few sign-offs for rank. You see, I gave all the boys a challenge at the beginning of the year to see if they could complete the requirements before we left for summer camp for whatever rank they were working on. I really didn't see it happening because the outings they had planned for the Spring did not fit well into advancement. The challenge was meant to get them thinking, maybe even open their handbooks and at least look at the requirements.

 

On this particular trip four of the Scouts had been in the troop for only one year and one was a recent crossover. The PL had a band concert and didn't arrive until late Friday night. So, it took the younger guys two hours to set up camp. Not like that hadn't done it before, but it sure seemed like it.

 

PL had his hands full that weekend with what seemed like a bunch of brand new Boy Scouts. Breakfast was french toast and sausage and took three hours from set up to clean up. I really just couldn't figure out why until I read Lisabob's post.

 

Our Scouts did a great job of planning their year last August. Lots of fun, adventure, and new activities. But, with the exception of the fall camporee and our winter campout in December, none of the outings included patrol cooking or cleaning, camp set up, fire building (we have a burn ban in South Carolina almost year round so we don't do much fire building anyway). We had skiing (day trip), spelunking (slept in the cave), canoeing (part of our annual planning weekend, slept in a cabin at the lake, used the kitchen for cooking), whitewater (used the outfitter's wall tents, but did do some cooking), and backpacking/hiking trips (personal tents, backpack stoves).

 

After the back to basics campout, several of the Scouts mentioned that they preferred the backpack type campouts - it's just too much trouble and takes too long to set up a car camp. I must say I agree with them. It is far less expensive too for our Troop just just bring along personal gear instead of hauling the huge heavy trailer.

 

The boys are already starting to talk about plans for next year and our annual planning weekend at the lake coming up in August. I figure we will still have a couple of car camping trips a year, at least for the spring and fall camporees. For those outings, I will make suggestions as I've done before on cooking methods for them to learn. I make it a challenge. For instance, last winter I mentioned the adults were cooking cinnamon rolls for breakfast in a dutch oven. Would they like to learn how to do that? Now, that's one of their favorites.

 

Whew long post, sorry. Just one last thing. Others have mentioned the "deer in headlights" look the boys get when asked to plan something. At our first planning meeting, that's just what I saw and it took a lot of adult intervention to get the boys thinking. Last year, a little less. This year, I think they're close to having it figured out. Maybe will still need a nudge here and there to remember to include skills training for advancement opportunities, but it is wonderful to see their enthusiasm these days.

[BrentAllen]

gwd,

Just my opinion, but I think your boys are missing out on a big part of the Patrol Method if they aren't learning to cook as a Patrol. Sure, it is going to take some time at first, because they don't know how to really do it, to learn the tricks to make it easier and quicker. They gain that with experience - kind of like how they are learning to plan their year. Each year, they get a little better, right?

 

Ask the parents to get the boys cooking at home, so they will know the basics when they go camping. Start them on simple menus and let them move up as they learn. Learning to cook is a skill that pays off for a lifetime.

[gwd-scouter]

Brent, I completely agree which was one reason for my post. Yep, our guys have done very well learning to plan their year and that itself has been a big boost for our troop morale. But, as mentioned in my post, their plans have taken them away from typical patrol type campouts and thus have not offered them many opportunities for patrol cooking. In our troop's case, we are very small and only have one patrol, but they do still operate as a patrol.

 

Our annual planning weekend is coming up in August and I will certainly encourage (nudge) them if they need it to plan a well-rounded year to include campouts with learning/teaching/advancement skill opportunities for our T-1st class Scouts. They did a fairly good job this past year incorporating some skills instruction during meetings leading up to an outing (cold weather, first aid, backpacking, water safety, etc.).

 

We are only in our 3rd year of changing our troop around and the guys have come a long way. Still a lot of work to do though.

 

[MarkS]

A bit off-topic... but I'm stuggling with why 9c is a requirement for the Camping MB. Sure it's a nice thing to do and all but not a camping skill. Seems like someone at national hijacked the Camping MB and stuck a service project in there to force boys striving for Eagle to do another service project. I think of developing skills and performing service as being separate.

 

Getting on-topic... The PLC should always keep an eye towards skill development and advancement when planning their program. However, that needs to be balanced with the interest of the other boys and should not come at the expense of being fun. It's a tough to keep that balance but that's what the SM and his SAs are for. To advise the PLC on how to enhance the program for their youth membership.