Scout Spirit----who determines

[theysawyoucomin']

 

Lisa wrote:

Well now wait a moment, as SM don't you have the ability to decide whether or not this scout is demonstrating scout spirit?

 

 

Who does determine this?

 

Troop Committee?

 

The absent lads parents?

 

Please.

[scoutldr]

In my troop, the answer to Lisa's question is "yes". That requirement is the SM's to sign off. The BOR asks about it and discusses it with the scout, but if the SM signs the book, it's a done deal.

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually who determines scout spirit is found in the Boy Scout handbook, take a look at the first post in this thread "Scout Spirit... Redux"in this section

[scoutldr]

That's what I love about the BSA...you can always find something in the literature to support ANY side of an argument. Contradictions and ambiguities...they make life easier, so you can do whatever you want.

 

OK, I'll bite. If it's the SCOUT who determines whether they've met the SS requirement, why is it a sign-off requirement for every rank? From now on, we'll just ask the scout if we should sign it and if he says yes, we sign it.

[scottteng]

"Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life."

I read this to be exclusive of scout activities it has to do with the way the law and the oath are applied to the scouts life in school, at home, at the mall, on the job. How scout like is he when not under the eyes of the scout leaders? Maybe input should be sought from parents and teachers? Usually determined by scout and scoutmaster kind of like the fearless moral inventory promoted in twelve step groups.

[John-in-KC]

BTW, remember what Bob White used to tell us:

 

If the Scout has made it to the BOR, there are serious problems in a Troop if he does not advance.

 

One of the truisms of the Advancement Method is "No Surprises!" A Scout should know he is at risk of not advancing well ahead of the SM Conference, let alone the BOR.

 

The BOR is there as the Committee's check on the quality of program delivery!

 

As for me, I have interactions with kids in my sons' unit not just at Troop Meetings. I see them at all manner of curricular and extra-curricular activities. It's pretty obvious, pretty fast if a young man is living the Scout Oath and Law

[evmori]

Bob White is a wealth of knowledge but he isn't always 100% correct. None of us is.

 

Good question scoutldr! I think the reason it needs to be signed off for each rank except Boy Scout is so the SM & Scout sit down & have a chat about the Scout. And Scout Spirit isn't limited to Scouting activities - the requirement reads "in your everyday life" not "in your everyday Scout life.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

Actually I think it is a fine idea for the SM to ask the scout whether or not he/she ought to sign off on "scout spirit." And of course that means that when the boy says "yes" they can explain why, too. In a convincing, clear, direct manner. This is a wonderful opportunity for serious discussion about what scout spirit means and how one demonstrates it. That's part of the mentoring job of the SM.

 

A while back I sat on a very uncomfortable BOR for a scout seeking Life rank. I did not then, and do not now, think he was ready but I was over-ridden at the time. One reason, among many, for my concern was because he could not look any of us in the eye and give a coherent answer as to how or when he had demonstrated scout spirit. Nor could he provide any recent examples of how he had demonstrated any of the 12 points of the scout law. If the SM had asked him "Do you think I ought to sign off on scout spirit for you and if so, why?" then maybe this young man would've given the meaning of scout spirit in his life at least a passing thought. And if he had given the SM the lousy non-answer he gave us? I hope the SM would've said, not good enough, let's give it a week and talk about it again. As it was, with the SM's signature in place for scout spirit, other members of the BOR (perhaps rightly) felt it would be wrong to delay the boy's advancement on that basis.

 

 

[Beavah]

Actually who determines scout spirit is found in the Boy Scout handbook, take a look at the first post in this thread "Scout Spirit... Redux"in this section

 

When I read BSA materials, I don't make the assumption that everything is a policy document. Otherwise as scoutldr says, the contradictions give me a headache!

 

The handbook is written in an informal style to help a lad learn and think. A set of instructions to a boy on how he should think about character (uphold his own values no matter what others say, be his own judge, act the same even if nobody is watching, etc.) are a good thing to put in da Handbook, eh? But that instruction to a boy on what good character means ain't the same as "you can sign off your own book for the requirement." The BSA Handbook is a tool for step one - helping a Boy Scout learn.

 

Actually, who determines Scout Spirit for Step 2 (feedback/testing/signoff) is the same as who determines the signoffs for all the other requirements. Da "Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and to pass candidates" on individual requirements (ACP&P). Most SM's tend to hold on to the Scout Spirit requirement for themselves rather than delegating it. But in bigger troops an ASM may be delegated as sign-off guy or gal, or perhaps a Patrol Leader might be so empowered (the PL is, after all, most likely to know the boy in school and sports and the neighborhood as well as the troop, eh?).

 

The exception to this is Scout Spirit for Eagle rank, where the BSA expects the EBOR to use outside references in addition to the SM's endorsement to determine Scout Spirit - and asks for references from home, school, church, employer, etc.

 

Nuthin' stoppin' a troop from doing that kind of "reference check" for the other ranks, eh? Just that most of us are a bit lazy, or don't want to impose on others for all the non-Eagle ranks. I haven't seen troops use outside references for lower ranks very often, except when a boy managed to screw up big time in his "everyday life" and a SM put things on hold for a bit until he made amends.

 

Yah, and then there's Step 3 - Review. The BOR should review, so there's a place for committee members in "the conversation" with the boy about character and spirit. Helps reinforce, and double-check, eh? We're all sharin' responsibility to help a boy learn and grow. And yah, in cases like what Lisa'bob describes, it means committee members takin' up some of the slack that's crept into the system.

 

And then there's Step 4 - Recognition. I think this is what OGE's really gettin' at. Recognition doesn't just mean getting a badge, it means that "others will recognize those values in you and respect you for it." Our final goal, eh? A self-motivated good scout easily recognized as such by others, where the "advancement" process is left behind in favor of what a boy has truly become.

 

But we get there through a process. And though Kudu will no doubt now launch into his usual objections, in the BSA process there are important steps where knowledgeable folks evaluate, give feedback, and review/reinforce. It's how we get to Step 4.

 

Beavah

 

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Kudu]

No, Beavah, launching into my "usual objections" is my winter hobby :-/

 

Kudu