Eagle App References: Sometimes you have to read the fine print

[John-in-KC]

I wonder how many Councils honor the below only in its breaching?

 

Following is from the outside back cover of the Eagle Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA 18-927. The Adobe acrobat version I'm using for this comes from the NESA website:

http://www.nesa.org/trail/manual.html

 

5. When the completed application is received at the council

service center, its contents will be verified and the references

contacted. The council advancement committee or its designee

contacts the person listed as a reference on the Eagle Scout

Rank Application either by letter, form, or telephone checklist.

The council determines the method or methods to be used.

The candidate should have contacted those individuals listed

as references before including their names on the application.

The candidates should not be involved personally in transmitting

any correspondence between persons listed as references

and the council service center. italicized emphasis added

 

6. The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, properly

filled out, must be submitted with the application.

 

7. After the contents of an application have been verified and

appropriately signed, the application, Eagle Scout Leadership

Service Project Workbook, and references will be returned from

the council service center to the chairman of the Eagle board of

review so that a board of review may be scheduled. Under no

circumstances should a board of review be scheduled until the

application is returned to the chairman of the Eagle board of

review. Reference checks that are forwarded with the application

are confidential, and their contents are not to be disclosed to

any person who is not a member of the board of review.

 

Certainly my Council honors this only in the breach: "You should thoughtfully select the individuals to provide letters of recommendation concerning your quest for the Eagle rank. The enclosed appraisal forms should be given to the appropriate people with envelopes provided for mailing back to your unit leader, advancement chairperson or Eagle Scout coordinator. These appraisal letters are

confidential, and should only be opened and reviewed by the Eagle Scout board of review."

 

That said, the Workbook does answer one of our standing questions on this Forum: Each Council has the discretion to determine how references WILL be contacted. From my read, though, National wants the references contacted.

 

To paraphrase Barry: Isn't this Scouting stuff FUN?

[Beavah]

Don't quite get your point, John. Or maybe I'm readin' differently.

 

The council decides that the method for contacting the reference is to have the boy take a reference letter request to the references, and ask them to mail it back to the EBOR chair.

 

Simple, straightforward, practical. And the boy is not involved in transmitting the correspondence between the persons listed and the council (just between the council and the persons).

 

I think this is the most common way of contacting references, eh? Calls are usually done only if there's an issue with the written letter.

 

[packsaddle]

I agree with Beavah. But our council seems not to be interested in contacting the references, at least no contacts in the years of my experience. But we try to follow the requirements to the 'letter'.

[John-in-KC]

Beavah,

 

Points:

 

1) From my read, National policy is that the references BE CONTACTED. We've had some give and take here on whether or not references (beyond names on the app) were required. My take based on this is yes.

 

2) My council has the boy give the reference form to his references, then mail them back to a named unit leader.

 

Was wondering how many other councils did same?

[evmori]

Points:

 

1) From my read, National policy is that the references BE CONTACTED. We've had some give and take here on whether or not references (beyond names on the app) were required. My take based on this is yes.

 

2) My council has the boy give the reference form to his references, then mail them back to a named unit leader.

 

Was wondering how many other councils did same?

 

My council does this. Actually, my district does this.

 

Once, I had and Eagle candidate that my district AC never asked for letters of reference on. I took the Eagle candidate to his scheduled Eagle BOR & was asked where his letters of reference were. I said, I don't know didn't you get them? I got that "deer in the headlight" look & was told council requires them. I then said, you better get them, then. My Scout completed the requirement. He passed & as far as I know never had to produce any letters of reference.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah]

Yah, John. Da point of the references is that an Eagle Scout shows Scout Spirit by livin' the Oath and Law in his everyday life, eh? So in order to figure that out, we have to ask people from the rest of the boy's life, in addition to his Scoutin' life. School Life, Religious Life, Work/Volunteer Life, Family Life. I encourage a non-scout peer reference, too.

 

So I read it the same way you do. The references need to be contacted/give information to the EBOR. It's important. It shouldn't be blown off.

 

The most common (in fact the only) way I've seen this done is by askin' for reference letters. Every council I've been associated with expects to have 'em in hand before the EBOR meets. But I know most good adults will call a reference if a letter is MIA, or especially if some "follow up" is necessary because of the content of da letter . Never had an EBOR have a problem with a reference or two that came as an oral report based on a phonecall by the chair.

 

Da letters usually give great insight into the boy, and make for good conversation starters. Super for puttin' the boy and the Oath and Law in a broader context.

 

 

 

[jr56]

My district in the past has had the candidate obtain the letters and put them in his packet when applying for the EBOR. This is not what national wants, but they have done it anyway.

[dan]

My council has the Eagle candidate contact the letter writer and provide them with a form and self addressed envelope addressed to the chairman of the Eagle board.

I find it quite amusing that some here think that it is OK because scouts should follow the Scout Oath that they should do the work even when it is written that an adult should do it. Apparently they do not think Adult should follow the Scout Oath also!

IMHO this is adult showing the scouts who is in charge. And showing the scouts that once you become an adult you do not have to follow the rules. A little tweaking is a good thing!

[Beavah]

Yah, dan, not sure of your point, eh?

 

Sounds like your council does things exactly the same way mine and most others handle this. Dat's consistent with the rules and guidelines, eh? As I read it, John was more concerned about whether the adults blew off the contacting of references (so none were available at the EBOR to assess how the lad lived the Oath and Law in his everyday life). I agree with him and you; the references should be "in" before the EBOR convenes. Makes for a better EBOR.

 

If you're sayin' it's somehow too burdensome for a boy to give a reference a sheet of paper and an envelope, then that's just funny, eh? I thought we were all about youth responsibility and leadership, adult association and all that. Good practice for college recommendations for 'em. And I find the letters much nicer than "telephone notes" when conductin' an EBOR. Better for the boy, too. Sometimes the guy takin' down telephone notes is havin' a bad day .

 

Yah, sure, if you've got another method that does the job well and works better for your lads and committee members (or is more consistent with your CO's values), tweak away. But don't fret yerself just to take a simple job away from the kid, that the kid can do just fine.