Eagle Felon

[baden]

I am seeking opinions from the forum. I am involved with this situation from the outside, but have been consulted for my opinion.

 

The situation is that a young man in a neighboring community has been convicted of a felony. He and some friends were caught in possession of a pipe bomb. My best guess is a bunch of kids horsing around. Sounds like something I might have done in my youth. But in todays environment this is a big deal and rightly so. I do not diminish the severity of this offense.

 

The boy is a Life Scout. He had his Eagle BOR scheduled prior to his run in with the Law. He appeared for the BOR and was told by the convened board that they were not willing to have the BOR. He told them after 1 yr. with correct behavior and completing some counseling his record would be expunged. They told him to re schedule when the felony is expunged and with correct behavior and continued participation with his Troop he would be granted a BOR. He is 16.

 

The 'Utes mother is raising all kinds of Hell demanding that he be given a Board now. She is threatening all kinds of action. The SM of the Troop is adamant that he will not be a party to the boy becoming an Eagle at this time. He states that he is willing to revisit the situation when and if the felony is expunged but not now, now way. He has stated that he will resign if the boy goes over him to council or National.

 

What do y'all think?

[scoutldr]

I was faced with a similar situation, when we convened a EBOR and facts were revealed in the Letters of recommendation. One of the EBOR members said, "if we proceed with this, I am voting NO." I recessed the Board, and called the DAC. The eventual ruling from the SE was that the Board should proceed, and a vote taken. Vote to approve MUST be unanimous. Then, if the Eagle is denied, the scout has a right to appeal. If all requirements have been completed, the Scout has a right to a Board. Then let the chips fall where they may. If the unit refuses to convene a Board, then the District will probably convene one and take it out of the hands of the unit committee.

[CalicoPenn]

Sounds like a tough one because of the circumstances around it, but it really shouldn't be. The issue here isn't the lads felony conviction.

 

The issue here is that the Board of Review refused to perform their duty. It sounds like the Board was trying to do right by Scouting and this Scout but went about it in the wrong way. If they were convened, as you state they were, then the refusal to perform the Board of Review may be tantamount to denial of rank and if so the Scout must be given written documentation of the denial with steps needed to correct the deficiency(ies) and information on the appeals process. If the Board hadn't convened and refused to perform their duty, then the Scout needs to be informed of the appeal process to request that a new Board of Review be formed. The Board should have held the review, then denied the rank with their reasons and let things take it's course.

 

Either way, the Scout or his parent or unit has the right to appeal. This leads to the Scoutmaster. Someone needs to sit the Scoutmaster down and tell him to "take a chill pill". The Scout (or parent) has the right to appeal - no ifs, ands or buts. The Scoutmaster threatening to resign does nothing to change that right to appeal. If he continues to threaten to resign, then say "sorry to see you leave" and let him go - it would be a shame to lose him if he's a good leader but the bigger picture is the Scoutmaster is a role model and as a role model must follow the rules - like them or not. A Scoutmaster who threatens to "take his ball and go home" as it were if he doesn't get his way isn't the best role model for the Scouts.

 

The best case here would be to get the Scout his scheduled, promised Board of Review. The Board should do the review like all reviews - and use the review as an opportunity to talk about this issue. They may still deny the rank and present their reasons and steps to correct deficiencies, which of course could lead to an appeal - or they could find that this was, as you state, a case of kids horsing around without thinking of the consequences and the kid is genuinely chastened and apologetic, and recommend the rank (which they seem to be willing to do after a certain period of time). In this case, I believe your best option is to deny, after a proper Board, and allow the Council/National appeals process go through and let them make the final decision - I've found nothing written for the volunteers that specifically state that a Scout convicted of a felony is no longer eligible to become an Eagle Scout - this one could easily be dropped into the lap of the organization.

 

Calico

[Fuzzy Bear]

One problem with the "pipe bomb horsing around" scenario is that it was not a Service Project or a joke and its intended use could only be a great disservice and horror. With all of the school killings and hatred as a backdrop, this incident has no place in Scouting or the community. Scouting is not an activity that is disconnected from the community either. I am unsure what anyone means by "horsing around" but pipe bombs no longer hold the kind of humor they once did. I am unsure if they ever held any humor. What else could they be used for except to harm someone? Being a citizen of the home, community, nation and the world is pretty shallow if we intend or threaten senseless harm to others.

 

I understand the SM's anger and embarrassment because of the Scout's actions. It also is a reflection on the SM. He most likely wants to get as far away as he can from this Scout. I am surprised that the SM hasn't already resigned.

 

I agree that the committee owes the Scout a BOR and hopefully a 100% rejection. The Scout can take his appeal on the road so that somebody else may come to understand this kind of thing as something other than what it is and I hope they don't agree that it is "horsing around" because it isn't even close. fb

 

[orennoah]

Fuzzy Bear asked: "What else could they [pipe bombs] be used for except to harm someone?"

 

Just like guns, pipe bombs could be used for fun or mayhem. I could easily see myself at that age making a pipe bomb with some buddies, going out to some safe area and exploding from a safe distance, simply for the joy of watching and hearing a grand explosion. Mind you, I never did. But, given the opportunity, I probably would have.

 

Of course, when I was a youth, terrorism was a little heard of problem of people who lived far, far away. Now, the political situation has completely changed and people are far less likely to see the "fun" in a pipe bomb. These boys were definitely in the wrong.

 

However, let's not lose sight of the inherently experimental nature of adolescents and their natural fascination with stuff blowing up.

 

I can't agree that building a pipe bomb is conclusive evidence of any intent to cause death or injury to anyone.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The defense of "horse play" or 'the youthful experimental nature' or youthful exuberance in contrast to the multiple thousands of killings, terrorism, war, and violence as seen and heard in the news, net and TV on a daily basis is overwhelmingly difficult to even begin to comprehend. I am left to conclude that many here must be out of the loop as well. If that is the case, then this young man should be totally exonerated for his lack of knowledge and be let go with a slight warning or a reprimand to watch an occasional newscast. It may be that he should not only be given his Eagle but also promoted as the Man of the Year. As for the multitudes of people that this kind thing has impacted, I doubt they will look favorably upon his antics or the resulting inactions. fb

[evmori]

Horseplay is spray painting graffiti or tossing rocks at signs. Making a pipe bomb is not now or ever has been horseplay. Pipe bombs are very dangerous & this kid is lucky to be alive.

 

I would let mom appeal but not before I made sure the people up the appeal chain were fully aware of what this boy did.

 

I feel what the BOR did was exactly correct.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

I agree with the others in that a board of review should not be denied. Hold the BOR as normal, then either award the rank or deny. To say "NO" without even holding a review is wrong and has no basis for support.

[Trevorum]

This kind situation is probably becoming more and more common as the mood in our country becomes increasingly fearful. Remember the scout who was suspended from school because he had some nails in his pocket leftover from a troop service project?

 

Calico and FScouter are right on. The fellow should have his BoR with no prejudice going in. If the board decides to reconvene after some period of time to be sure of the fellow's Scout Spirit, that's OK.

 

 

 

I remember, as a kid one time, opening up a bunch of firecrackers and collecting the gunpowder. I had some notion of packing the gunpowder into a bigger tube and making a bigger firecracker. Very cool, huh? Of course, today, we'd call that a pipe bomb. Luckily, my dad happened to come into the garage. He calmly asked what I was doing. He then told me how dangerous it was and told me the story of a fellow he knew as a kid who lost a couple of fingers from fire crackers. No one charged me with a felony cause I was just a stupid kid. Many years later, I told this story to my own sons to make sure they wouldn't blow off their fingers. Or worse.

 

 

[jr56]

Agreed, the BOR review should be held, if the consensus is to not award him the advancement at this time, then the appeal process must be explained to him. Let the chips fall where they may after that, so to speak.

[John-in-KC]

This is why we have Council Scout Executives, Council Advancement Chairmen/Committees, and District Advancement Chairmen/Committees. It's "ASK THE QUESTION" time!

 

They will tell us the procedures. We should follow said procedures to the letter. I believe I'm in agreeemt with Scoutldr, FScouter, and jr56 upline in this thread.

 

YIS.

[evmori]

Actually, the BOR was convened and for all intent & purpose he was denied. No real point for the BOR to drag it out.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver]

Ed,

 

You are almost correct. The BOR convened only long enough for the scout to be told there would be no BOR. The decision was made before he walked in the door. Technically, there was no BOR since he didn't sit for it, but got turned away at the door.

 

The BOR should go forward and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Fuzzy,

 

I understand where you are coming from, but IMHO you are overreacting. Just because terrorists use pipe bombs does not mean that anyone who makes one is a terrorist or criminal. Just because you were bit by a black dog does not mean all black dogs bite. Yes what he did lacked judgement and he should be punished. That being said, doing stupid stuff is a teen boy thing....at least it was when I survived my teen years.

 

Trev,

 

My dad didn't happen by when me, my brother and a friend unrolled a whole package of firecrackers and made one giant firecracker. We found one of those cast metal caps that fit on the fencepost of chainlink fences and set it off underneath it. It was a gloriously loud boom and sent the cap flying at least 100 feet in the air. It was fortunate that we were "smart" enough to run for cover after lighting it. When we retrieved the cap after coming out of orbit, half of it was gone.

[Trevorum]

For some unfathomable reason, I am reminded of "Jumbo", the 200 ton, 25 foot long steel container with walls 14 inches thick that was intended to contain the first atomic bomb, should it be a dud and not go critical. They didn't use it at Trinity though, so later the Army put eight 500 lb bombs inside (!!!) and exploded them. What a boom that must have been.

[SSScout]

Baden:

 

The hardest part of a judges job is not deciding the truth or falsity of alledged actions, but the INTENT...

 

Choices...

 

One. Convene the EBOR. Pass the Scout or deny. If deny, state reasons. ALL of them. State way to redress problems and reapply at a later time. A year later? Scout is instructed that he may appeal the denial to the next levels. Let him. What particular part of the Scout Promise and Law is this again?. (BTW: What about the other CHILDREN involved?)

 

Two. BOR refuses to meet, it is as if the boy never asked for a convened board. Tell the boy that in order to avoid making a record of his problem (which everyone is aware of, anyway) they will make NO decision. Please come back when your record has been expunged. At that time we will consider your Eagle application, which, BTW, looks pretty good.

 

Done all the time, when the perp is a first time, very young, truly remorseful person. It is desirable to get your case expunged. No record for employer checks. No security check problems. WAY back when, I had a brush with the law. My dads attorney, a very wise man, asked that the case be "nol prosed" (never went to trial), and I was on unofficial probation for a year, at which time the case was expunged. No record of it. No problem. I've been "clean" since. (we'll talk about speeding tickets another time...)

 

Three. Do #one or #two, but someone neglects to point out to the boys mom/dad that the boy has time. If they insist on pushing it to the next level, the next level will hear of the criminal activity (still active, still on the books)and have to make a Solomon's decision. Do they accept a Scout with a serious legal blemish as an Eagle? By waiting the year, the record is wiped clean. The boy moves on as if it never happened (legally). If the Next Level hems and haws sufficiently, or denies the application, they might end up considering the need(?) to push it to the next next level (etc) and how long does that take?

 

I hope the boy talks to the mom/dad if some adult friend doesn't. On face, if the boy realizes his problem and it's solution, it would appear that the mom may not.

 

The SM has my prayers and sympathy, but I'm not sure I would be moved to resign. What did the SM do to warrant resignation?

 

YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)