BOR - members, signatures, committee position

[ps56k]

Quick questions on the classical BOR -

I was elected to pick up the awards

for our upcoming COH.

One thing that came up at the Scout Store

was the signature on the Advancement Forms

was of a mom of a Scout.

 

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34403.pdf

 

Ok - review & comment time....

 

(1) We have the same person acting as BOR chair,

sorta like a position on the committee.

Does this "position" actually exist ?

She thought she had to sign every advancement form on the left line where is asks for "title".

 

(2) She signs all the advancement forms,

and precides over all the BOR's.

Is this how you do it,

or do you just need 3 bodies - and they sign the form ?

Who is the "chairman" as listed in the procedures copied below...

 

"Troops/Teams. All Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts ready for advancement must appear personally before a board of review composed of at least three members. An advancement report must

be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.

 

(3) She had her son listed on the BOR advancement form,

with 2 other signatures

 

(4) Can any parent be grabbed for a BOR

that does not have their son,

or do they have to be only registered committee folks ?

Seems a waste,

as we would have to "register" them just for a BOR ?

 

Any other comments ?

 

(This message has been edited by ps56k)

[SSScout]

* It never hurts to have ALL parents registered Scouters. Our Troop even pays the registration fee. Our Council recently declared that all MB Counselors (1) had to be registered Scouters (new form with new MB C form) and (2) had to be registered with the District MB Coordinator.

* I don't think the BoR C is an "official" position per se. Your Troop could make it so in your Troop. Our BoR has the CC as the BoR Chairman and then any parent available (usually a ASM, too) can serve on the BoR. It is , I think, very good to include the parents and then they get a sense of ownership (?) of the Troop. The inexperienced parent("hey, I could never do that") can see what their boy sees and be encouraged to be more involved. The IP hears the example of the CC and the ASM or the more experienced parent and gains confidence about the Scout experience thereby. Yeah, the boys parent can't be included on the BoR, but that's the idea, yes?

* Since we are not a really huge Troop, BoR are held on a "as needed" basis, sometimes as often as once a month.

* All who serve on the BoR sign the Ad Form, so yes, the personnel involved changes almost each time.

* Just don't forget, (1) "it's for the kids" (Bob the Tomatoe) and (2) "call'em Scouts not guys. That's what they are" . I said that.

 

Good luck and Godspeed to you and your Troop.

[Lisabob]

Here's how our troop does this:

 

1) Parents may not sit on their son's BOR. It's hard to be objective about your own kid (even when you think you are) and it may make the scout more reluctant to share his opinions.

2) All BOR members are committee members. Not "just" parents, not ASMs or the SM.

3) When the advancement chair sits on a BOR, he signs on the left line (BOR chair). Otherwise, one of the three people present signs. In this case, we generally agree prior to the start who the "lead" person will be - it isn't a big deal in most cases.

4) We don't have a permanent position like "BOR chairperson" in our troop. I guess you could, but even then I think parents ought not to be sitting on their own child's BOR.

 

While I like SSScout's idea of registering all parents in some capacity, this is also dependent on funding and parents' willingness to be registered. Not all COs help fund recharter, some units are cash-strapped enough as is and additional fundraising to pay for adult registrations that really aren't actively involved may cause acrimony. Not to mention that there are adults who don't want to register, or whose registration would be rejected by BSA, whose sons are scouts. So I guess I'd encourage people who want to be active to register but I wouldn't expect all parents to do so.

 

Lisa'bob

[scoutldr]

BOR consist of at least 3 committee members. A parent may not serve if their son is being reviewed (and preferably should not be in the room but you can't prevent them from "observing" if they insist). The BOR chair can be anyone, but most commonly it is the troop CC or advancement chair. SM and ASM may not serve.

[ps56k]

I wonder why there is a signature line with a line for "title".

 

The Advancement Committee book - #33088D -

on page 29 lists the basic reqs of a BOR

which has from 3 to 6 members of the Troop Committee.... not just available parents.

Yeah - it's counter-producttive, but that's the black and white.

 

[Hunt]

A clarification (maybe): While it is true that a parent may not sit on a Board of Review for his or her own child, an advancement report may include both ranks and merit badges--there would be nothing wrong with a parent (who is a registered committee member) sitting on the rank BOR for another scout, but turning in an advancement report that ALSO included a merit badge for his or her own child.

[ps56k]

we use the printout from Troopmaster for the MB's vs hand writing them on an advancement form.

 

This was regarding two advancement forms for:

Eagle Palm (her son)

First Class (her son)

 

[FScouter]

Boards of review are staffed by troop committee members. Every board of review should have a lead person or chairman for that particular board. That would be the person to sign the advancement form. The title would be that persons regular committee position, or just committee member. The chairman of a board of review does not have to be the troop committee advancement person.

 

One of the responsibilities of the committee advancement person is to arrange for boards of review. That person would normally sit on the boards, would be the lead person, and would sign the advancement form. Any committee member may sit on a board of review. The Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmasters may not participate, and should not be present during a board of review. The parent of a candidate should not be a member of the board.

 

You might find the Troop Committee Guidebook to be of some help in understanding the role of the committee. Seven committee positions are described, with responsibilities for each position. There should be an advancement person. There could also be a board of review person if the advancement person wants to pass on that responsibility to another committee member. If all positions are not filled, the committee chair will still need to make sure that all responsibilities are being handled. A large troop may add more positions.

 

Committee members complete an adult leader application and are formally registered through the council. Their names appear on the annual troop charter.

[MaScout]

BoR's are to have three registered committee members on them.

 

Parents are not to participate in on their own child's BoR.

 

So...you actually need FOUR committee members if they are all parents.

 

When we submit multiple rank advancements, and we only have 4 parents/committee members available, we put all the boys on one advancement report and put in four signatures. I know there are only 3 lines...so improvise. Write smaller. Write above or below the line. This indicates that there were "non-parent" members on the BoR.

 

I asked about "why" there is a spot for the title of the person submitting the report. Too many parents were getting ahold of the Advancement Reports and submitting un-earned awards for their sons...go figure. Anyway, this is a check to make sure the one submitting the report is actually authorized to do so. (Alledgedly, "they" verify this information. )

[EagleInKY]

We handle the signatures a little different. Typically, we'll have BORs during a troop meeting night. Often we'll have more than one. This sometimes forces us to have four different committee members present if two of them each have a son up for advancement. So, the makeup of the BOR may change through the night.

 

The boys are given a signed copy of their individual advancement record out of Troopmaster. The Advancement Chairman keeps a signed copy for his records.

 

The advancement report is then printed out of Troopmaster after they have completed the BOR. I typically sign the line on the left (as Scoutmaster). I then get two members of the BOR to sign the sheet. If I can't get both of them, I'll get the Advancement Chair or Committee Chair to sign it. The text above the two lines clearly state: "For Boards of Review. Two additional signatures are required, plus the date the board of review was held.". To us, this means that two members of the BOR should add their signature, not that all members of the BOR have to sign it, nor that the SM should not sign the first line.

[frankj]

I believe Lisabob covered it. Three committee members. No parents of Scout being reviewed. As Adv. Chair I try to take part in all BORs and I sign where it calls for "Title." One of the things I do as Adv Chair is a very brief review of the Scout's recent advancement -- for example, "Joe joined the troop in ________, got his Tenderfoot on _______, his Second class on _______, and now he's here for his First Class BOR." It helps introduce the Scout and put him at ease.

 

[frankj]

Correction -- I should have said no parents of Scouts take part in the BOR. They are welcome to observe, but I can't think of when we've had any observers.

[Crew21_Adv]

PS,

 

Greetings Everyone!

 

I think a few of us here have quoted from the Troop Committee Guideline. I also like going back to the book, to see what it states. However, I am currently away from my home office and my own Scout library. (If any fellow Scouter can review my entry and look at the Advancement Committe Guidelines to see what it states).

 

There is a BSA publication "Advancement Committee Guidelines", which covers advancement from Tigers Paws thru Venturing Silver. It should also have valuable guidelines as to how to organize a Troop BOR. I think we need to carefully read the words selected by the national committees when the update the handbooks and guidelines.

 

Imagine, in order to start a brand new troop, they need a COR, three registered adults and five registered youth. What do they do for their first few BORs?

 

In a Troop that I have served, in addition to parents we attempted to withdraw Relatives, i.e. Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles from the BOR's, however I don't believe this is stated in the Advancement Guidelines.

 

Now, My own two cents.....

Similar to the Bold print in the GSS, which must be followed, what about the non-bold print? In some of the Guidelines, you will find both "must" and "should". I expect most of the wording uses "should", just the same as most of the literature are "Guidelines" and not BSA "Law Manuals".

 

Here is what the Board of Review Supplimental Training says on the National website. http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/index.html "Obviously, the Scout's parent should not serve on his board of review panel." Should not, is a guideline but not an absolute law.

 

Bottom line. I would expect the BSA Advancement Committee Guidelines to say something like, parents "should" not sit on the BOR. Vice saying parents "may or must" not sit on the BOR.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[scoutldr]

...and you may not allow smoking during a BOR, either. :-)

[acco40]

We've gone down this parsing of the English language at least a dozen times, especially wrt "should." For those who believe that "should" (like "may") is just a suggestion, guideline, etc. and not a rule; what about:

 

While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Scouting.)

 

"Should" is the past tense of "shall" which is not a suggestion but a rule.

 

Pronunciation: sh&l, 'shal

Function: verb

Inflected Form(s): past should /sh&d, 'shud/; present singular & plural shall

Etymology: Middle English shal (1st & 3d sing. present indic.), from Old English sceal; akin to Old High German scal (1st & 3d singular present indicative) ought to, must, Lithuanian skola debt

verbal auxiliary

1 archaic a : will have to : MUST b : will be able to : CAN

2 a -- used to express a command or exhortation b -- used in laws, regulations, or directives to express what is mandatory

3 a -- used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future b -- used to express simple futurity

4 -- used to express determination

intransitive senses, archaic : will go

 

UPDATE

Our council now allows us to do advancement reports on-line. Not sure how the signature cycle will work just yet.(This message has been edited by acco40)