BOR - members, signatures, committee position

[Dozy 10]

acco40

 

You have nailed what I have been searching for and this will REALLY help me at our committee meetings.

 

I will cc&p your post and use it, and possibly use it often.

 

Thanks

Dozy

Just a lowly committee member

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

Dozy, with respect, no I do not think that what acco wrote is likely to help you get your point across in a committee meeting. (even though I personally agree with him)

 

First: just because it was posted on this forum doesn't necessarily make it true, and somebody on your committee is bound to point that out, thus undermining you.

 

Second: how do you think your fellow committee members will respond when you start in on your grammar lesson? Not well, I don't suppose. People who are ticked off on a personal level are likely to dig in their heels, NOT give you what you want.

 

Third: You know that saying about how you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

 

And by the way there is no such thing as "just a lowly committee member." CMs (and I am one too) are vital to the proper functioning of any troop. They're valuable, one and all.

 

Leading change is a really hard thing to do, more so when not everyone in your group wants to change or wants to be led (by you or by anybody else). Let me earnestly recommend to you that you consider taking Wood Badge the next time it is offered by your council or a nearby council. Leading change and building a common vision are two of the many, very helpful, topics that are included in this training. And as many here will attest, it is routinely one of the best quality training opportunities that the BSA has to offer.

 

Hope I didn't offend you - not my intention, at any rate.

 

Lisa'bob

 

[Dozy 10]

No offense.

 

What I mean by "lowly CM" is that I hold no position on my troops committee. I backup the SM and that's plenty. Plus, I'm coming up on my first year Anniversary as a CM and only within the last 6 months have activly pursued training (and that's because I found out that no one was trained at anything and they didn't know what they were doing... I deferred to them and mistakes were made in many areas... so I decided to get some education).

 

We've had a huge problem with semantics. We're in a maze hitting turns and walls and can't seem to get out of it. "Should" is one of those subjective areas where there's a huge disagreement, and it's already hostile.

 

Honey... oh yes, plenty of honey has been lavished upon this Troop Committee... many things have been let go, picking and choosing the battles that top the list that directly impact the Rank Advancement of the Scout, and the Quality of the unit.

 

But once you have good Scouts leaving over an adults inability to compromise on semantics (I guess we have to be unanimous on that, too), then what do you have left?

 

We need our vision to be the same from Committee, to Scoutmaster, to Parent (not necessarily in that order) for the boys to be served the best and for the adults not to become enemies.

 

Dare I say that the enemies list has already been created and it's about to be signed in blood. No, I'd rather it not get to that point, but I'm not the one leading the charge. But, however, I am gathering information through shared knowledge. Once I know that we are not alone in our problems... I guess you can say, it feels better that we're not the only misrable excuse for a Troop Committee out there (with some outstanding, top-notch scouts in spite of us)... that maybe we can overcome this.

 

However, we CAN't aree to disagree... this is not one of those areas where that is possible. We need a foundation, period.(This message has been edited by Dozy)

[Lisabob 13]

Dozy I do understand that it is really frustrating to work with a unit where everything seems to be going haywire because the adults are too thick-headed to work together. I've been there myself. I'd like to think that most of the time I was on the cool, calm, and reasonable side but I'm sure I've had my moments where that wasn't true (to my chagrin). Also venting is really helpful sometimes, eh?

 

But honestly, if you are coming across at your committee meetings the way you are in your messages here, no one is going to listen to you, except perhaps your husband, and that's not going to help you.

 

Of course they might not listen no matter what, but the image I am getting is that it is hard for you to maintain your calm, cool, and collected stance and when that happens, you're bound to "lose" whatever argument you are engaged in. I'm sorry, but my own experience tells me that's true.

 

You've mentioned you are now getting involved in your district. OK, so get to know the district training chair if you don't already. Ask him or her whether it would be possible to do troop committee training at a committee meeting. Don't schedule this - you don't have that right since you're not the committee chair - but just ask, in hypothetical terms. If the answer is yes, or at least, maybe, then see if your committee chair is interested in doing this. If the answer is still yes, or at least maybe, then offer to help schedule it ASAP. Don't use this to bludgeon them over their heads ("see, you dumb committee members! You were wrong and I was right!") but rather as an opportunity for all of you to come closer to some common ground.

 

What I suggest you NOT do: don't spend your time complaining about your unit's (considerable) internal problems to everyone you meet in your district - it will be perceived as badmouthing and people will assume you're part of the problem (fair or not), and it won't help you either. Instead find one person who can act as a sounding board or mentor to you, and make sure you and they are focused mainly on looking for solutions rather than only venting. Don't pick a yes-(wo)man for this either. You want someone who will tell you when you've gone off the deep end.

 

I see three likely outcomes of the current mess you are describing in your unit:

 

1. The unit will break apart because of all the fighting among the adults and cease to exist.

2. Some adults will be driven off, along with their boys, and a handful will remain to try to pick up the pieces (you mention it is small without a lot of active adults already so I don't see this as a guaranteed positive).

3. Most of the adults will figure out that together you are all making things much worse, will agree to get trained and work together for the sake of the boys, and the program will slowly rebuild as a result.

 

Think carefully about which of the above outcomes you really want, and how your actions and approaches make that outcome more, or less, likely to occur.

 

And by the way think about how this all looks to rising webelos in your area too. If you strive to drive away a lot of the current adults, that sends a clear message to potential future recruits too. And word travels quickly in scouting circles, I've found.

 

Lisa'bob

[Lisabob 13]

"We need our vision to be the same from Committee, to Scoutmaster, to Parent (not necessarily in that order) for the boys to be served the best and for the adults not to become enemies."

 

 

OK and here's where it would be wonderful if you (and maybe some other members of the committee, if they can be persuaded) would go to Woodbadge. This is exactly the kind of thing WB focuses on.

 

Lisa'bob

[Beavah 205]

Bottom line. I would expect the BSA Advancement Committee Guidelines to say something like, parents "should" not sit on the BOR. Vice saying parents "may or must" not sit on the BOR.

 

In fact:

 

Unit leaders, assistant unit leaders, relatives, or guardians may not serve as members of a Scout's board of review. (ACP&P #33088D p. 29).

 

Bottom line, use common sense and consistent values. Avoid the reality or the appearance of impropriety or favoritism. In a five-boy startup troop, do what you need to do. I'd suggest bringing in outsiders in the same way you would for an EBOR, rather than using relatives.

 

 

[Dozy 10]

Actually LisaBob, I have never done anything at a committee meeting except sit there and stew. Things are discussed but never acted upon. We've been waiting for Program Launch where we are to discuss by-laws.

 

The only motion I made that was carried is that Committee Meetings, normally held during Troop Meetings, be moved to another night because it became impossible for the SM every time he was needed to answer one of their questions.

 

The straw that broke the camels back was this Star rank advancement situation.

 

1) SM had to be at a Committee called ScoutReach meeting during a regular troop meeting night

2) CC said she would be 2nd adult leader at the Troop meeting.

3) We found this out days later than CC threatened this scout who was up for Star that she would not pass him because he was fidgeting in his chair. She threatened a new Scout with the same for his Tenderfoot BOR down the road, because he said, "This is boring".

 

Does this sound like something you can remain cool about?

 

All it takes is 1 person make kids quit. If that person isn't reigned in, even if it is the CC, we are doing a disservice to the scout.

 

I have never vented anywhere. Even the new guard has not held any covert meetings to oust anyone. However, the new guard has expressed their displeasure outside of Committee meetings, the same as I am doing here.

 

So please, don't judge my venting... I am here to ask for help. Is this situation normal? No. Should we allow it to continue? No. Does it happen in our CM's and Troops? As I have found, maybe not to this extreme, maybe yes, but most CM's and Troops seem to have a measure of "good health" about them.

 

I am fighting for the program that the SM was hired to do and that's the BSA program. I frankly have to let go of the past and I know that we have to start fresh at Program Launch. The new guard feels the same. If there's a way we can ask them to leave, would be great. The best thing we have going on our side is that the boy who was denied Rank advancement, his mother is friends with the COR. We're hoping to have his help in restructuring the committee and because the CO has the last word, we'll abide by it. Still it means that we might leave.