DeanRx

Disclaimer: I did not vote for Mr. Obama either of the times I had a chance to. I am not a fan of most of his policies and I acknowledge the potential for bias in my view because of this... The way I see the Martin / Zimmerman case is that both parties had multiple chances to avoid a fatal encounter and BOTH probably disregarded those opportunities. Why? Was it race? Maybe. Was it good old fashion male machismo? More likely. Was it a wanna be cop / Lone ranger runs up against a tough attitude, take no crap teenager? Most likely. Probably that third one with some life experience r

As a Web DL, I held up our den for 1 boys who didn't join until WEbII year... we could have crossed over to Boy Scouts in Feb., we waited until May so the lad could complete AOL, becuase without it, he would not have met the age requirement to cross over with his den. Guess what, less than 1 year into Boy Scouts and the kid is no longer active !! I learned MY lesson... offer the program, make OPPORTUNITIES for the boys to advance, but any catch up / make up is on them. I delayed the scouting expirience for 5 other boys (we still did fun stuff / web only campouts / etc...) for the better par

As a former CM, with a son beginning again in Tigers this year, and a current ASM for a troop in which my older son is beginning his 2nd year (almost done with 1st class)... I'm living boht sides of this issue... If I was king of BSA for a day, I would make the following changes: 1) get rid of Lions, 1st grade is soon enough to start. 2) Make Webelos 1 year instead of 2, and make itthe beginning part of Boy Scouts instead of the end of Cub Scouts. The big change this would bring is that Boy Scouts is a "go at your own pace" program, unlike Cubbies that is a "do it all together i

Curious position from my perspective. If a scout was caught cheating on tests in high school would you consider that none of your business or is it a reflection on his trustworthiness? What if he was hazing other youth on a HS sports team? Not in scouting so no worry about friendly, courteous, kind. Smoking cigarettes and yelling obscenities at a village holiday gathering with young children around? No biggie, it's not a camp out, clean mind and strong body only count in the woods. Character is what happens when nobody is looking. Isn't that what we're trying to teach? Yeah DC,

Maybe I'm reading too much into the policy statement... BUT.... I took it to mean that sexual conduct of ANY TYPE is not condoned in or around or on ANY scouting activity. A married couple in a tent on a campout (whether adult leaders or married ventures... wow married yung, but whatever) should be able to keep their private life private around scouts - PERIOD. I don't even show much affection other than a hug and a quick peck on the cheek for the Mrs. when I'm in uniform. Its not the place for it. So far in pre-marital sex (hetro or homo) among teenaged boys... I'm sure it happens giv

Packsaddle, I guess I would say I too wish the pro's in Irving would have had the guts to make the call themselves. However, at the same time - putting it to a vote does a couple things (in addition to deflecting some of the heat from themselves): 1) It gets buy-in from the councils... it was THEIR votes that changed the policy... no one can argue the point much when its majority rules. 2) For once, Irving can be viewed as actually LISTENING to the units they are supposed to be serving!! One of the largest complaints I ever hear (and that I level on my own against pro's of every stripe) i

Wow! No need to see how the councils voted... it was done as a secret ballot and counted by an outside accounting firm, thats good enough for me whichever way the vote turned out. Its been put to a vote and we should move on with providing a great program. As for the OnMyHonor.net folks, I say good luck and best wishes with your "new" scouting program. Don't let the door hit you in the rear end. If your attitude is "Its my way, or I'll quit..." You never really encompassed the true scouting spirit in the first place. I'd say the same thing to any pro-gay scouters who would quit the progr

and I shall finish the game.... scout on! scout on! scout on! I may continue to push internally for what I believe to be the morally correct path for BSA to follow - but it will change very little (if anything) at the local unit level. So long as my sons have an interest, we will be active in scouting.

I should add that it has become almost imparitive that unit leaders have a discussion with youth regarding such types of conduct and make them understand that any type of this "horse-play" will likely get them a one way ticket out of BSA permenantly. This is one part of youth protection training that we as leaders usually dismiss or fail to teach altogether. We are so concerned about the "bad" adults that we fail to understand the individual risks to the youth that gets mixed up in ANY type of sexual exploration / sexual misconduct accusations. The organization will circle the wagons and pr

Scout_98, I'm sorry to hear of the problems caused by a few boys' (your son's included) momentary lack of judgement. I don't see this as a gay/straight issue so much as I think it might be viewed as a "bullying" issue or perhaps an issue of an older boy compelling younger scouts to do questionable / unscoutlike things. You state your son is a Star scout and the other youth involved were 12-13 year olds. Was your son a PL or in any position of responsibility over the other youth involved? If so, I can see why the action was taken and I would assume you will have a very difficult ti

With the recent changes to some of the BSA requirements, which standard does one hold the scout in the program to? Specific example. If you have a scout working on the firebuilding requirement for 2nd class and they have completed the requirement, but have yet to achieve the rank of 2nd class... do you let it go? OR Since the requirement is now to light the fire, let it burn and put it out (as opposed to just showing how to do the firelay), does the lad need to revisit the requirement? I'd think no, as I'm not going to make a kid getting his Eagle next month go back and re

I think a good place to start is, any adult that is going to hold the scout to the standard should be doing the same test (with same standard)... I bet dollars to doughnuts the majority of adult leaders (myself included) would be hard pressed to knock out a single pull up.

Or the boy who was gung-ho for BSA at age 11, now distracted... most likely by the 14 year old girl who is no longer gung-ho because she wears a regular bra instead of a trainer now... Honestly, if BSA was co-ed, I would have been more likely to stick around to finish my eagle. Instead, I went on to band and drama. I liked both activities, but band and drama had girls, scouting did not.

OK, so anyone who's been on here or has read a post by me knows my stance on the upcoming membership policy vote... I would like to offer a voice for WHY the horse is already out of the barn and down the road while us scouters are left looking to hitch the wagon up... 1) Morally speaking - its the RIGHT / CORRECT thing to do. This above all else should be the driving factor in the decision making process. I am not gay, I do not condone the lifestyle. I personally think there are serious problems folks in a same-sex relationship bring / force on their children that would not be there if

what happens when the LFL side of the program outgrows the "traditional" scouting program? Then does national finally change course? Seperate, but equal has been tried in this country.... it didn't work out too well. You are either going to allow folks into the club, or you are not. Its morally wrong (IMHO), not to mention bad business for BSA to have seperate membership standards for their "red headed stepchildren" units in the LFL groups... If you don't think thats how most Crews or Ships feel, just ask any leader or youth that has interaction with the local council, division, or nati

I honestly don't see any problem with it. The USA is actually an outlyer organization (along with the God and Gays issue) compared to MOST other nations in the World Scouting Organization, especially most of the European countries, to include the UK (Scoutings founding country). Being in San Diego, our unit attends scout fair every year at Qualcomm Stadium. I routinely see co-ed cub and scout units attending from Mexico. They are great kids and enjoying the program. GSUSA is a great organization and I don't want to take anything away from them, but honestly their program is more ab

RIP Mr. OGE... you will be missed.

And that piece of 40 year old history has WHAT to do with homosexuality? Hard to have a discussion with someone who can not differentiate between pedophilia and homosexuality.... Sheesh !!!

dcsimmons- I guess I just do NOT see the value in a local law suit. Part of the charm of local option is if the ACLU (or any other entity for that matter) wants to sue, they have to pony up the time / resources / money to sue each individual unit... and to what end? To force that ONE unit to change their membership policy? One of the reasons BSA national is an easy target is that one ruling can and will affected EVERY single unit across the nation. No so if they win against one unit. It spreads the risk across a larger area and most likely makes it cost prohibitive to go after it at th

ghst- the problem is the BSA has already set their precedent the other direction... BSA currently allows CO's most notably the LDS units to "tweek" the national program to fit the individual unit's needs. BSA allows individual units to keep females out of leadership roles if they want to. But, BSA says a unit cannot currently CHOOSE to allow a gay or atheist to be a leader. That really is the rub in my book. Why can certain CO's impose their will on the program in one direction, while another CO cannot? Its an option to exclude, with no option to include right now. Might have something

I look at things like this like I do the sexual harrasment training at work... First, if the individual being targeted takes offense, they need to let it be known. Then it is the duty of the manager / supervisor (i.e. adult leadership, SPL, PL) to discuss the issue with those involved and make sure it doesn't happen any longer. If the individual being targeted doesn't say anything, or goes along with it, or gives the teasting back to the orgininator, then its really not an issue, is it? Second, the issue is between the teaser and teasee. One cannot claim a "hostile environment" be

AZMike, why do we need to rename the organization? We already have certain units that have their own twist to the program and don't camp on Sundays (LDS units). We already have local option with regards to allowing or not allowing female leaders. We already have local option on membership requirements regarding religious beliefs for certain CO's... I understand that some hold the gay and athiest issues very near and dear because they believe it to tear at the very moral fabric that THEIR view of BSA represents. However, there are others who see exclusion based on gender or religious a

Mom, I think a SM conference with the lad and maybe dad is in order. Try to get to the root of why this happens with him on every outing / unit event and come to an agreement (that both you and scout and dad) can live with as how you are going to address the issue at hand. Second, I think giving him something to be in charge of is a good thing. However, do NOT make it a mission critical element of the outing (i.e. food, campsite, etc...) if he fails to reach expectations, that will further alienate him from his peers (you state he already feels that everyone comes down on him). Ma

I'd second what AKdenldr has to say... how does the lad KNOW what he wants to do for an activity if he's never tried it before. As a parent, you lead your kid towards things you value, be it scouting, church, a musical insturment, football, or dance. The trick is to give the kid a chance to expirience it for themself and then let them decide if its a good fit. It doesn't really matter the activity so long as the child is having a good time, learning some life skills, and is there because HE wants to do it. I have two sons. Older boy, tried a couple seasons of little league. Did OK, b

I haven't seen anyone comment that the leader should not address the smoking of pot as a serious matter, or that it should be overlooked and the scout held up as a role model for his alleged actions. Please show us ONE posted reply where this is the case? The issue is HOW would you handle the situation. Is he kicked out? Is he not kicked out, but can't get his Eagle (not sure HOW you enforce this one... might as well kick him out). Some posters, with a very valid point, state they would ban him for a certain period of time (2-3 months) from activities. OK, so do you really think af