walk in the woods

ACORN doesn't exist anymore because once the federal teat dried up they went away.

Stosh, now, you aren't really saying the ACA creates economic incentives for employers to cut people's work hours and to reduce hiring are you? Next thing you know you're going to tell me the $63/head soon to be $300+/head tax companies now have to pay on the number of individuals insured in their plans isn't really going to fund the program and will never go away. Or that businesses might just drop their plans all together! The President promised I'd keep my plan and my doctors.

Silly Stosh. Uncle Sam only has your best interests at heart. As soon as they've crushed the private insurance business there won't be any competition from the Government.

The government could no longer borrow enough money to make their payroll.......Call it what you will. As for the filibuster, that's a simple Senate rule. It can be changed by a simple majority vote at any time in the Senate. You should call Reid to get the rules changed before they make an end-run around them.

Problem of course is that the ACA was rammed through congress using budget reconciliation instead of actually getting the votes to pass the bill. This was done as a parliamentary maneuver by the Obama administration because he lost his 60-vote filibuster proof majority in the Senate the fall before when Brown was elected to fill Kennedy's seat. Rather than fight he used a process designed to cut the budget deficit to expand it dramatically. Some may call that good politics, some will call it Executive over-reach, some will call it a handful of extremist nutbags pushing an agenda. As for the thought the republicans are being cornered into their "bright red distracts [sic]" you might want to look at the 2010 and 2012 elections. In 2008 the Democrats held 61 seats in the Senate and 256 in the house. In the next congress that went to 56/193 and in the next 51/200. In the President's home state a Republican was elected to take the President's old Senate seat. Don't forget that the folks in the congress are actually elected by the people, not the electoral college. The mid-terms next year will be interesting. As for folks in Europe worrying about the US, meh. Maybe they should be worried about the collapse of the socialist economy in Greece (and Portugal and Spain and others). Maybe the US should be weary of traveling that same road.

I'll second the via

Pack, I'm curious to know how far you'd take the "shrug it off" approach and get on with scouting. If a scout refused to light a camp fire because he believed the gathering of firewood disturbed the natural environment, stole nutrients from the forest floor, promoted unsustainable forestry practices and contributed to global warming, would you allow him to skip that requirement for second class? If a scout came to you and said he was a Satanist and therefore refused to contribute to service projects because the ingrates didn't deserve his service would you give him a pass on service hours? Extreme examples maybe but the same principle.

I suppose from a management perspective though, if my goal is to develop character, the two are equivalent. If a scouts is a high/high kid and never camps again, isn't that the same outcome as a low/high kid with the same character development? idk.

great schedule and looks like a lot of fun. I'd get it on a calendar, get specific dates selected (taking into account school, church, etc. events, less so for district/council events but look) and get it published far and wide. If you have folks who've never winter camped before spend some extra time working with them, maybe hold a day-long outdoor event somewhere, etc. If your council offers OKPIK or anything similar look into some training that way as well. Float trips typically require a little more paperwork if you want to tow that line. Are you using an outfitter for your climbing/rapelling or doing a roll-your-own?

I'll argue the other side just because I like to argue.... While I agree knots are an important skill and have some long tradition in scouts, they are a bit of an anachronism. We don't teach kids today how to type on typewriters because they'll never use one. Kids don't use the card catalog in the library because there's a computer. Kids don't carry quarters in the pockets anymore because they have a cell phone for emergency calls. Kids are starting to leave text books behind in favor of e-books. Kids don't care about map and compass because they have GPS and phones. Kids don't retain knots because there are bungy cords and Velcro and webbing with friction buckles and/or come-alongs to take the place of rope for many tasks. Kids just don't see the value in knots. And they won't until the cute girl needs to move and they can tie-down something in the back of their pick-up. Some of the knots the scouts teach, like the bowline, seem to be falling out of favor. We're sponsored by a fire department which teaches their members to use a figure 8 w/follow-through or a figure 8 on a byte to put a loop in the end of a rope. That's also the knot the scouts learn at the local climbing gym to put the belay rope on their harness. The logic offered by the FD is the figure 8 is easier to tie correctly, creates less load-bearing reduction on the line when tied, and is easier to untie (I do question the last point). When one of the "big" knots is questioned by other professionals as less than appropriate, it puts a huge dent in the rest of the knots program. Finally, I'd argue that some folks do get obsessed with the means (knots) over the ends (character). Ultimately, we can plot character and competence on a two-dimensional chart to measure any scout. Sure, we'd like for all the scouts to be in the upper-right (high-competence/high-character) quadrant. However, I think we can be equally successful when scouts end up in the low-competence/high-character quadrant simply because the character part is the ultimate goal here. I'd certainly take a scout in either high-character quadrant over a low-character/high-competence scout any day. Even the Army is questioning where they are on the character vs. competence grid (http://www.stripes.com/news/army/chandler-emphasizes-character-commitment-in-talks-with-troops-1.242931) Now, queue the responses about how I'm a wood badge loving management type. I can take it. .

idk Pack. It seems like the issue here is folks trying to so liberally interpret the requirements as to make them meaningless. And, when somebody questions then to scream about how they are being discriminated against. The BSA is a patriotic organization by definition, saying the pledge is part of the deal. We have an oath and law, they are part of the deal from the methods all the way up to the mission. Life is full of choices, if you choose to be a practicing JW (or atheist) then you by definition choose not to be a Boy Scout. Not because a JW or athiest couldn't master scoutcraft but because the belief systems and requirements are mutually exclusive. That's ok. I'm a Christian, I don't demand that a Mosque or Temple change their message to accommodate my faith. Same deal. The mess that the BSA is getting into is the trying to be everything to everybody mess. This thread highlights much of the mushy mindset driving us down the path. Don't want to say the pledge, that's fine, just say that you are reciting the words, you don't have to believe. In another thread there was a discussion about whether faith in your parents to make good decisions was good enough to meet a faith requirement. As the Scottish guy on SNL used to say, it's crrrrrraaaaaap! If the BSA wants to be everything to everybody they need to rip the bandage off and make that call. I'm sure TLUSA would appreciate the influx of members. Problem is the BSA doesn't have the courage to stand behind their convictions in either direction.

The scout rank are the joining requirements. they are the pre-req for all ranks because you have to complete them to join.

Clearly all the twirling was causing undo risk of eye injuries and potential circulation issues in the index figures of guards.

My little troop runs with one patrol and has for several years (our community population is <1000). I'd say run with an elected PL and let him appoint an APL. We tried the SPL route for a while but found the overhead unnecessary.

I'd be interested to hear their take on the Oath and law as well. I don't know much about the JWs but always thought taking a pledge or swearing an oath of any sort was problematic.

None over DoB. A couple of potential leaders refused SSN. A couple refused to list an email address, preferring to give it to me directly.

I can't blame them for balking on the SSN or DL. In Illinois all drivers licenses are of the form X999-1234-5678. The X999 part maps to a unique last name, the 45 part is the year of birth and the 678 part is the date of birth.

The difference of course is that the scouts are already in the program and the parents have agreed to the parameters of the program. In short, they've already submitted to the BSA-state. In the OPs case, the parents are trying to determine if there is enough value in the program to turn over their private information. Apples and Oranges. I also find it curious that a person posting under an pseudonym is accusing folks of hiding something.......

Hiding? That's the kind of comment a leftisit-statist makes. Choosing to exercise a personal freedom to control one's personal information doesn't mean your hiding anything. Next thing you know you all will be asking for their papers. Sheesh. You guys must all be commies.

I agree Berliner, but, people still own their information. They have the right to own it, control it, and to refuse to give it with the consequences that go along with it. In my case, I give mine to my employer because I'm not independently wealthy, the BSA and my church because I work with the youth in those programs. My office works with Chicago Public Schools on a reading program. While I wanted to participate I refused to give my PID to CPS for yet another background check and yet another organization with my info volunteered by me. The consequence is I don't get to participate in a great program, but, it's a personal choice to exercise a personal freedom. I certainly won't judge these parents for making the same choice to exercise their personal freedom. It's possible the BSA will lose scouts which is sad but everybody in the organization makes a choice of whether to be here or not. One other thought on the CC stuff at the scout shop, that probably has more to do with PCI compliance than anything else. The payment card industry has detailed rules about what does and doesn't constitute reasonable security in payment card environments. Not storing CC numbers and only printing the last 4 digits of the CC number on a receipt are a PCI requirement, not a BSA invention.

I have to admit I've used the parchment paper liners a couple of times and kind of liked them. Pineapple upside down cake was lower risk that way .

My personal belief is the more information that can be gathered in one place the easier it becomes for the bad guys. I'm probably not as picky as I should be but I have refused to take part in stuff outside scouting because they wanted all that same information without offering any assurances to its protection.

It goes into a computer system to which they have no control nor guarantee of reasonable safeguards. We all make decisions with our personal information based on our priorities. Can you assure them nothing bad will happen, nope. Can you tell them it's required to be a leader, yep. Can they decide not to be a leader based on that requirement, yep. As a guy who has been victimized by CC fraud and identity theft I can't say as I blame them.

Moose, they disagree with the decision, they disagree with the trajectory of the BSA, they disagree with you. So, they started their own program. I know it's hard for liberals to comprehend that many folks simply don't agree with the current trajectory of the BSA or the country for that matter. And they'll work to change it. I think I'm smelling a little fear in the air as the liberals realize they are now going to have to lead instead of just complain about needing change. You got it. What are you going to do with it now?

I doubt you'll find anything written from the BSA because pack funds aren't the BSA's money. Those funds belong to your Charter Organization. How they get spent is up to the committee and the Charter Org. I personally wouldn't want to be the one explaining to the parents why little johnny had to pony up $20 for the blue and gold banquet when the committee is eating dinner once a month on the pack.