dan

I am pretty sure our District Camporee does not make much of a profit. They are usually pretty small. The council Camporall usually makes at least 5000 dollars profit. The best money making thing in this council is the Haunted Hike. It is a Council event held at the Boy Scout camp open to all scouters and non scouters. Venture Crews run most of it but Boy Scout troops also run events. I worked it last year they make about 10000 profit a year I was amazed! Now if they would just put that money back into the camp or even half of it!

jwmerica Welcome Do not worry about bumping old threads up. This one seems to get bumped up every year or so. Unless one of the moderators says something about bumping up threads do not worry about it. And I really think Old Grey Eagle really loves to see this one bumped. Reviewing this thread whatever happened to eisely?

The original post turned into a kids these days post. So I thought I would do a spin off. I thought that it is our job to develop the scouts into leaders? I really think that we (the adult leaders) are a big part of this issue. If you look at the Boy Scout handbook it says that the PL should be helping his patrol with advancement. . I take this to mean that he is making sure that meetings and outings are geared toward what his patrols needs for advancement. And making sure that they are getting the sign offs done, by reminding his patrol members to get these sign off signed off. This should be monitored by an ASM giving the PL guidance, just like a SM gives the SPL guidance. The PL reads what his job is suppose to be by reading the handbook and possibility the handout of the job description from JLT and sees that he is not doing any of it or very little, and the adults leaders think this is fine. How are we developing him for future leadership rolls? The Scout sees that the troop really does not expect the scout to do what is written for his POR, why would he think that another POR would be any different. How many times have you heard or read here that the adults leaders answer to a scout question is ask your SPL, when it should be ask your PL. If we do not start developing the leadership when they join the troop why would we expect them to have good leadership 2 or 3 years down the road? What are the PL responsible for in your troop? Do they take attendance of the patrol and track why patrol members are not present? Do they call patrol members who are not present and ask why they where not at the meeting/outing, and why they did not inform him that they would not be there? Do they really represent the patrol at the PLC?

mk9750 IMO the forum lost a very valuable resource when you stopped posting here. I wish you would start posting more, your postings where excellent. We had this discussion in the past and it seemed most posters said that a agnostic could be a member of the BSA even when guided to the website Merlyn brought up. http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-195.asp Most posters said that it is not an official website or they understood and they where not going to follow it. Good Luck

Boy Run Bad Boy Lead Good

I see where you got the seven councils from now, I just have never thought of Morris and Indiana as a suburb of Chicago. And I can tell you that one of those council are not hitting up business for dollars so it is not competing with the other councils.

Beavah I believe you are incorrect when you say "BSA policy and guidelines are that a Badge is awarded for "what a Scout can do, not for what he has done." Can you tell me where I can find this information? I have been reading this and thinking no matter what happens the scout gets the short end of the stick. If he is awarded the badge he may have missed out on doing something that could have changed his thought process on what he wants to do in the future, like what he may take as a major in college or save someones life. The scout got shorted by a counselor. If we say nope you have to do the the badge again if he could call the council up and most likely he would be awarded the badge OR he could get frustrated and say why should I be better than a counselor and give up on scouts, may not quit but just slide on through doing the minimum without enjoying it. After reading what Beavah wrote I thought why not awarded him the badge but have a talk with him and see if he could review some of the things that where missed with the counselor? Use some time at a troop meeting or campout to review it and to make sure he understands what he has missed. Or maybe have him teach the skill to other scouts, if it is something like First Aid that other scouts need to learn also.

Scouters in Naperville, Barrington, Deerfield and the Northside Are you suggesting that Northeast Illinois Council, Des Plaines Valley Council, Three Fires Council, and 3 other council (I am not sure who the 3 other councils are) should all merge with the Chicago Area Council?

Hey Hey I am a counselor for pulp and paper! Not that I have every counseled a scout for it in the 5 years that I have been a counselor for it!

I use Jiffy mix, 2 packets per 12" dutch oven and follow the instructions on the box.

My wife who registered last year as a leader received it I did not.

We do the once a year Medical forms. The week of the campout or outing, Monday, a sign up sheet is passed around to the patrols they sign if they are going. The patrols prepares a menu and a member of the patrol is selected to purchase the food for the patrol. The patrol pays 10 dollars each to whoever is doing the shopping. When a person has been grubmaster he gets requirement 4b signed off on 1st class. Menus are approved by ASM or SM. Troop has some strict and silly rules about what is and is not allowed to cook or eat.

Fuzzy I am struggling with sometimes the adults cook . I cannot think of a camp out where scouts should not prepare the patrols meals. I feel that once the adults prepare meals the patrol method goes out the window. And the leaders start thinking, well the scouts are going to be busy on the next camp out so we will do the cooking, and the next camp out after that one is a Camporee so we will cook for that one also, in other words it is a slippery slope. Item number 6. They don't get outside once a month I do not thing this is enough! Which is why I included a high adventure once a year. It seems that unless we can have the scouts do something more exciting than outside once a month we are going to lose a lot more than 10%. Item number7. greater than 10% drop off rate Would this be overall? Is this saying unless 90% of the scouts that join must earn eagle to become a quality unit. My thought is that each year group no more than 20% drop off rate. (This message has been edited by dan)

I will give it a whirl, this one needs more thought BUT to keep this thread going here is my thoughts on for Boy Scouts. 1. Boy lead using the Patrol method Monthly PLC meetings, Twice-yearly PLC Planning meetings, Patrols are not picked by anyone except the scouts in the patrol, EXCEPT New Scout Patrols. Adults can only be heard saying: Have you Asked Your PATROL LEADER. Any troop using the huge carports for dining flys will be automatically excluded from being a Quality Unit. (Unless every patrol has one and is used) 2. Outdoor program At least one High Adventure a year. Camp every month even if if is in a cabin. Every campout has a theme. 3. Troop Sells popcorn OR donates to the council from other fund raising. 4. All PL's, SPL's & ASPL's attend JLT Troop has a least 2 JLT per year. This assumes a 6 month term on POR. 5. Troop meetings are filled with hands on activities, patrol competition, patrol meetings not merit badges. Scoutmaster seems like all he does in the meeting is to whisper occasionally in the SPL ear. 6. COR is the one selecting leaders and making sure the program is being followed. 7. They attend their councils summer camp at least every 3 years. 8. The follow the Methods and AIMs of Scouting, they knew these are not suggestions. 9. All leaders trained in YPT. And they do not discuss what MAY means. 10. SPL ASPL are not in a patrol.

I think training should be mandatory, but I think these councils are doing it at the wrong level. I really think the training should be mandatory for the COR. Making training mandatory for CM, SM, or ASM and not the COR is like training someone how to sew a suit, but not train anyone to purchase the material or thread to make the suit.

I think doing nothing would do more harm. You have 2 scouts that came up to you and tell you what happened. Doing the right thing is not easy, these 2 lived up the the scout oath being brave. I do like the idea of a service project, where he can use the time doing the service project to reflect on his actions. I think a SM conference first followed by the service project. I would not bring up any names of who informed on him. What good would this do?

Thanks Merri, I do not believe there is a way to respond to one post. If it was me, I would most likely purchase the campmor pants and use them for campouts. But I would keep the adult leadership informed that sometimes we might want the official pants or shorts, wood badge, NYLT, OA....

Bevah Why thank you, that was my point. I do agree with you up to a point. The BSA does not do anything relating to scouting as Baden-Powell used scouting terms, seems that his idea on scouting was tracking and hiding. The one thing that you have not addressed is the issue of someone using the scouting name and the "public" would not know which group was which. Sometimes you need to protect what is yours.

Merri Are the scouts allowed to wear the official pants or shorts? OR Is the troop mandating that they can only wear the campmor pants?

Kudu The correct analogy is car or automobile is equal to boy. Impala or mustang is equal to scout.

The correct analogy is "What if Chevrolet wanted to trademark the generic terms "car" and "automobile"? Or if Nike wanted to trademark the generic terms "shoe" and "sneaker"? Or if McDonald's wanted to trademark the generic terms "hamburger" and "french fries"? They already have, mustang, impala, civic, special, ..... Which is just like scouts.

Funny you should bring up Ford. They are in the process of stopping all unauthorized used of their trademarks. This is mostly for names like mustang, and Model A for the people selling reproduction parts. Many other car manufactures already have done the same thing, Ferria(sp?) has put many people of of business that has used their name. Edit, the below is from another website which gives a little more info, it is not my writing or thoughts. I was going to give a link to the website but some of the people posting on this subject are a little worked up over there and some comments are not scout like. Ford is demanding many aftermarket auto parts companies remove trademarks such as "Mustang" from their names, according to columnist Donald Farr. And it doesn't stop there. Apparently, "the matter will only be resolved when everyoneparts companies, Web sites, even magazinesstops using the Mustang name." A Ford source said Ford has decided to "reclaim its legacy" by protecting its trademarks and logos. Even terms such as "Stang" will be deemed infringement. Ford has reportedly demanded many companies turn over for destruction all signs, banners, business cards, and stationary for destruction, and transfer web domain names to Ford. Ford has also demanded that companies hand over $5,000 in damages. If they don't comply with Ford's demands, they face a Ford-powered lawsuit seeking $100,000, according to Farr. The Leftlane Perspective: Ford may rightly feel the need to protect its trademarks, but does it really need $5,000 in damages from a few companies? Moreover, is demanding $5,000 in damages with the threat of a $100,000 lawsuit legally justifiable? (This message has been edited by dan)

My prayers will include your wife, OJ, and you.

Softly falls the light of day, While our campfire fades away. Silently each Scout should ask Have I done my daily task? Have I kept my honor bright? Can I guiltless sleep tonight? Have I done and have I dared Everything to be prepared? Listen Lord, oh listen Lord, As I whisper soft and low. Bless my mom and Bless my dad, These are things that they should know. I will keep my honor Bright, The oath and law will be my guide. And mom and dad this you should know, Deep in my heart I love you so. Quietly we join as one, Thanking God for Scouting fun May we now go on our way, Thankful for another day. May we always love and share, Living in peace beyond compare. As Scout may we find, Friendships true with all mankind. Quietly we now will part, Pledging ever in our heart, To strive to do our best each day, As we travel down life's way. Happiness we'll try to give, Trying a better life to live, 'Till all the world be joined in love, Living in peace under skies above.

I believe you are doing it correctly not jumping in and solving the patrol problems, they should be working together to overcome any issues. Not going to the SPL or SM for every little mistake they make. This is a very hard thing to do. But if the adults or SPL solves all of the issues for the patrol what have they learned? I have had many scouts come up to me and say that they left their rain gear at home, I have asked them if they have any large garbage bags in the chuck box and leave it at that. Some walk around all weekend wet and grumpy, it was their choice, on how they packed and what they did to improve the situation. BUT I carry an extra sleeping bag with me, just in case it turns into an safety issue. I am surprised that raw pork chops made someone sick? I would be more worried about raw eggs or chicken than pork chops. I wonder if the pork chops where out of cooler to long on in the sun. The issue with the adults taking over the patrol they are dining with should be an easy issue to overcome. Adults should not be in the patrol area until the food is ready and the patrol has invited them to dine with them. Now the issue becomes are the patrol going to clean the adults and whoever else ate with them (SPL or ASPL) dishes. These 2 threads have been an excellent read, thanks all.