Crew21_Adv

SR540Beaver,

Greetings!

Here is what my Chapter has done.

We began having Chapter meetings on Roundtable night.

We know that most youth Arrowmen don't drive, so they would rely upon the parents going to Roundtable at the same time.

My Chapter recognizes that not all Arrowmen get the word, many youth email address are temporary and/or their parents delete the email without reminding them of a Chapter meeting.

That being said, we know that Chapter meetings will be regular and small business will be done. As long as our Chief gets a newsletter out to the Chapter, the word will get out. With 5-7 Arrowmen sitting in a Chapter meeting, we consider this a huge success.

We have an Arrowman act as the Guardian at the door. All Arrowmen, adult and youth, have to give the admonition to enter (or they may be escorted inside the meeting as we do have guest on ocassions). We open with the OA Pledge, usually we have to break out our cards and read them, but we do it still.

One of the advisors usually brings beef jerky and rootbeer, (food makes a good bribe/reward for attendance).

In one of the online manuals www.oa-bsa.org, there is an actual sample Chapter meeting agenda. We use this as our agenda, but it takes minutes for our youth Arrowmen to move thru the agenda.

So with the excess time, we do a read thru of our Chapter Call Out Ceremony and Arrow of Light Ceremony. Then we go into a Brotherhood Conversion Study and Quiz.

Twice a "school calendar" year we have a Chapter Fellowship (in addition to the Lodge events). First is a 1/2 work-service day and 1/2 video game day at the local campsite. The second is a 1/2 video game evening with a limited Ordeal Q&A with the most recently called out candidates. (Between Spring Camporee and Spring Ordeal weekend).

My Chapter is not the model OA Chapter sitting in the middle of the Mid-West. But we are very proud to have a meager but enduring attendance, a few Chapter Arrowman socials, Brotherhood conversions and fun events.

SR540, Good Luck in getting your Chapter energized! and Let us know what works for you!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Brent (and Fellow Scouters and Jeopardy fans),

Greetings!

Mrs Crew21_Adv read that to me yesterday. We catch an episode of Jeopardy every so often, it is a fun game show to test a person's trivial knowledge and quick recall, so we'll plan on watching the game on the 25th. (As I'm sure many Scouters will)

As excited about watching Alex provide BSA answers. What is more interesting is the public's knowledge (or at least the three contestant's awareness) of the BSA.

Every so often, Jeopardy poses a category that completely baffles the contestants.

Hopefully the Answers will be witty and honorable, and all five of the responses in the form of a Question will be right on target.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Marathoner262,

Greetings!

I have served on served five times on WB staff and twice on NYLT staff. I have some insight, but I am no expert in how staff/beads are recorded. Or if there is a national or regional database to record Course Directors, beyond the authorization to conduct a course.

As you may already know. It is staff members (less youth staff on WB) that receives a third bead, most recently Wood Badge graduates may receive a third by on NYLT staff. It is only the Course Director that receives a fourth bead, again most recently a Wood Badge graduate may receive a fourth bead by serving as NYLT Course Director.

During my most recent NYLT course half of the adult staff already had the third bead.

Now.. after saying that; here is what I've seen more recently.

Our NYLT staffers, specifically the Course Director had brought back two seperate applications for the third bead and for the fourth bead recognition. It was not only serving, but included a few NYLT accomplishments (like a pre-established ticket) before the course.

The application(s) had to be endorsed and transmitted back to the regional Director of the Course Directors Conference. It was after the application was approved, that the Council could award the third beads and fourth bead to the NYLT staffers. I do not know if the procedure I described is conduct the same in all four regions, but I'd expect it may be.

So, your current Course Director for your council's next NYLT may have paper applications and written instructions on achieving the third beads and fourth bead.

Also Marathoner262, Although you may want to recognize your Course Director, the Course Director and professional Staff Advisor may already be ahead of you.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Eagle92 and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings again!

A common joke, but I have had many friends tell me it was based off a true story (yeah right). Many cultures in Hawaii are able to joke and laugh at their own and each others heritage. Seems like the Pacific Islander Portuguese are the recipient of many jokes and they even joke about themselves.

Two traffic cops of Portuguese heritage just pulled over a drunk driver that was speeding and swerving thru traffic on Kalanianaole Highway. As the senior cop was writing the ticket, the senior asked the rookie how to spell Kalanianaole. The junior traffic cop shrugged his shoulders because he just couldn't spell it either.

Finally, the senior cop exited the cop car, walked up to the drunks car window, spoke to him for a few seconds and let him drive off.

The rookie cop yelled "What are you doing?! That driver was drunk! Did you just let him off with a warning?!"

The senior cop answered back. "Don't worry! We'll let him drive down to King street and just arrest him down there!"

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

NE-IV-88-Beaver,

Many skits are re-hashed, though since some of our Scouts are Boy Scouts for 7 1/2 years. Many refreshed skits are timeless.

I usually like the talking dog, but I've seen the punchline frequently change to keep it timely as "Maybe I should have said Joe Dimaggio" to "Pete Rose" to "Mark McGuire" and now "Derek Jeter".

I don't know how old or recent this skit is, but I've only seen it recently. There is also a similar version on You Tube. But I was rolling at the version that was done at NYLT.

Dead in a Ditch.

Every time the Scouts say "Dead in a Ditch". He is normally writing it down on a notepad (or his palm) so this Scout will say it loud, slow and very pronounced.

The Summary is a four Scouts in two imaginary cars have a car wreck in front of the campfire.

Three Scouts fall to one side, one Scout falls to the other side.

Two more Scouts come driving in as though they were state troopers, a rookie and a senior cop (making siren noises and swirling their flashlights). As they are writing up the police report; and the dialogue continues the senior cop says to log it as "Dead in a Ditch". The rookie cop that can't spell writes "dead in a ditch" for three of the Scouts. Often asking the smarter cop how to spell "ditch".

Finally the senior cop (Scout) tells the junior rookie to record this final Scout as dead in the Boulevard. The rookie cop writes and says "DEAD IN A...." The young rookie ask, how to you spell Boulevard. The senior cop, starts, "Bea... Boa... Bu..." Then they both grab the final dead Scout and drag him to the other stack of three Scouts, and the senior cop says, "Dead in a Ditch" as the junior rookie writes it down.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Dimemaker,

Greetings!

You've received excellent advise already.

I would add. Have a written plan/schedule (I know already been stated).

We moved Chapter meetings to the same night. Although a different program. The SM/ASM staff can attend RT and a few of the Arrowmen can attend Chapter Meeting (the attendance population increases by this mutual meeting night/transportation).

Keep general announcements for Cubs, Boys, Venturing down to 10 minutes. Announcements are a valuable way to spread the word. Don't eliminate them, just shorten the announcements. Scouters making announcements should be given a strict time limit (Seconds, not minutes).

Move into a skill development in each program about 15-20 minutes into the hour. Take a look at the Boy's Life for the next month, does it apply to the next months program theme and can a troop apply some of the tools in Boy's Life? The skill should have a "take away" or hands on experience; as well as specifically apply to theme of the month.

The term Roundtable means that we all can add. Although a district may have Roundtable Commissioners and Roundtable Staff, all members of the district may be able to demonstrate a skill or illustrate their unique program to their fellow Scouts. So enlist other Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, etc to conduct a demonstration throughout the year.

Good Luck and have fun!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

CA_Scouter,

Outstanding!

This just demonstrates character building really works (via your help CA_Scouter).

Sometimes we do lose a few young men to a variety of other avenues and misbehavior; but sometimes we do find a few of them that will go thru (and probably cause) mayhem, and eventually redeem themself.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Arrowmen,

Greetings!

It seems that there is a disagreement over semantics.

emb021 never said that youth members were counseling or signing completions. But that they were assisting "running" the Indian Lore program.

BadenP is correct. Membership in the OA alone does not qualify that member to be an Indian Lore counselor.

Where is the disagreement?

Semantics again, but I don't recall anyone on this forum or during this thread stating that OA Membership does automatically qualify that individual to be an Indian Lore Merit Badge Counselor.

I would hope that anyone counseling any Merit Badge American Business thru Woodwork would have the subject matter knowledge by means of a vocation, avocation or specialized training.

It appears that youth members of the BSA may instruct Merit Badge sessions, but they may not counsel or sign the Merit Badge Application as completed. I believe there are more definitive statements in the National Camping School literature. But this is from the Scouting.org webpage, regarding camp staff members under the age of 18.

Summer Camp Merit Badge Counselors

The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor.

Now, I'm interested in what the total duties are, for youth chosen by the National OA Staff leaders and Staff Advisor as part of the OA Dance Team at National Jamboree. After all, this thread was start by kahits to discuss the Arrowmen in the Indian Village at Merit Badge Midway, National Jamboree 2010. This thread wasnt started to discuss a youth Arrowmans knowledge of authentic Indian Lore. Nor any specific Lodge Dance team or Arrowman attending their local summer camp.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Lisabob,

Greetings!

Here are my thoughts.

All young boys should benefit from the products of Scouting. To be able to make ethical and moral decisions throughout their lifetime, usually this trait is gained thru physical fitness, character development and citizenship training.

Here are a couple of the questions I ask, whenever I've come across similar situations.

- Is Boy Scouting the only program that can serve these "couple of boys"? No.

- Can this Scout be redeemed? Possibly. Maybe Yes, maybe No.

It is up to that Scout and the Troop Committee. They may have already broken their last straw, or used the final silver bullet.

There are other youth sports and character development programs across America. I feel that none are as good and comprehensive as the BSA, but there are other youth programs that can be found in various communities.

I have only seen one place in writing, that comments on removing the membership from Scouting. It is found in chapter one of the Guide to Safe Scouting. Youth member behavior guidelines and member responsibilities.

Possibly during the next PLC and Committee Meeting bring the G2SS publication with you, ask if these couple of Scouts to read aloud this paragraph, and ask have conducted themselves within the guidelines or broken the guidelines. Possibly begin with asking these two Scouts to review the G2SS chapter and answer if they have abided by these guidelines.

These couple of Scouts may realizes (albeit too late) that they have not behaved as a Scout, and based off their own behavior their membership may be revoked.

If its determined to revoke their membership within your troop. Recommend some academic programs, character programs, and fitness programs where they may better be served to achieve their new goals.

Good Luck!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

CNY,

Greetings!

I also have never heard of a co-ed leadership requirement, beyond the excursion and camping G2SS requirements. It sounds like a Venturing Urban Legend.

Regarding mandatory training. That term seems to be an unenthusiastic term used more by Scouters, and carries a negative and time consuming implication. BSA has called it Fundamentals Basic and Essentials, at least using those terms, the training still has the same definition as mandatory, but hopefully less offensive.

Unfortunately, no BSA unit has to conduct FOS or conduct a unit/council fund raiser; they will just miss out on a few opportunities. But unit leaders (of any Pack, Troop, Crew) do have to meet the absolute minimum amount of safety training, based on their events. If a unit does not meet the absolute minimum, they obviously do not have any program and are not really a BSA unit. They seem to be choosing for themselves to lose their charter.

It would be disappointing to lose a unit, but even more disappointing to keep a risk taking group of adults and youth together under the title of a BSA unit.

As a Commissioner, you cannot make a unit leadership do anything (against their will). You can let them know your experiences and credentials, and that you have direct advice on how to make their unit an even more successful BSA unit (to win their hearts and minds).

Good Luck with your Unit Commissioner duties!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Pixiewife,

Greetings!

There are many great camping items that he may want or need. A cheap pocket fan or spray bottle misting fan. Although they are 2-3 bucks in the local convenience store, they are worth a million in the hot Virginia Ft A.P. Hill in August.

It should be opening soon, but Scoutstuff should soon have a NSJ page, accessible only to NSJ participants. There will be many NSJ souvenirs sold on that page, but specifically, I would look for a NSJ straw or sun shade hat.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

CA_Scouter and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

Some good advice and comments already posted, but I think Eamonn nailed it.

As I have been told. (Like many Scouting urban legends begin)

BSA has consulted, contracted and also hired professional educators, pediatrician docs, sports medicine professionals and behavioral psychologist. Specifically, when writing and authoring various advancement program handbooks, recreational and leadership programs. But BSA is not going to certify in any of those professions.

BSA desires for us leaders to deliver a quality program to all boys with all kinds of needs. But rarely do you find any boys that are cut from the same mold.

I would say that the BSA program for Mentoring and Big Brother already lies within the patrols and the troop. The Scouts need to constantly be re-educated or reminded that is their duty, during Troop Leadership Training or by sending a SPL to NYLT.

To the best of my knowledge. BSA is aware of Scouts with a variety of needs (physical, mental, health, family, etc), and has presented these in some of their reports and surveys. Ive seen a few in the accessible BSA webpages.

Reports and findings yes. Programs, Training, Instructions, we already have. I am not holding my breath on any specific (needs) training beyond Scoutmaster Specifics or Cub Scout Specifics.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

bilgerat,

Greetings!

It is a good question with many different views on the answer.

My local troop is open to female leadership (however they currently are on the committee side), they have camped and led during specific campouts. We haven't stopped them from joining as an ASM, just that none have desired to as of yet.

A neighbor troop doesn't want ladies to join as ASMs, or their female committee members to camp with them. When a few families ask for definitive answer, they did not get a hostile response. Just a confused and delayed deferment.

It wasn't hostile, but we gained a few good families from their loss.

But regarding BSA policy, and BSA "ancient history". It was policy, till about 20 years ago. It was a printed change to the handbooks and adult leader application for the Scoutmaster qualifications about 1990'ish. I believe BSA added "or female" to the Scoutmaster description.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Stosh and Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

Is the SM -> SPL -> PL model the best solution?

Yes, I believe so.

Within my troop, the SM/ASMs take it a step further. In today's era, many parents are virtually hooked to their laptop, *berry, cell phone and etc.

Just a week after PLC, It is ironically humorous and disappointing when a PL or ASPL arrives to a troop meeting as ask "what are we doing tonight? or What am I doing tonight"

Meanwhile, the parents, that don't talk to their sons, ask the SM/ASM team "what is happening" on a regular basis. Well the SM/ASM have come around to sending out short monthly agenda notes (since the troop scribe usually doesn't have access to a computer or is too busy doing homework).

The beginning of explaining the monthly agenda usually starts with a few lines of carriage return-space, followed by.

If you don't know what's happening, ask you Scout (son). He should know.

If your son does not know what is happening, he should ask his Patrol Leader.

If his Patrol Leader does not know what is happening, he should ask the Senior Patrol Leader.

If our Senior Patrol Leader does not know what is happening, we are all in trouble.

(This is followed by many (carriage return) space. Then the SM/ASM briefly highlights the monthly plans, dates, times, locations, and cost.

All this to say. It doesn't only happen with our Scouts. Even the parents find it easy to send an email to the SM/ASMs. But after 30, 40, 50 emails before a weekend. Its easier to be proactive and tell everyone what to expect, and ask them to dialogue with their own Scout.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

I too hope that no one would have any problem with a "young" Eagle.

I think most of the controversy(if any) would exist with the father's statement. Not even expectations, but a bold statement on behalf of his son.

What I do find humorous.. Is a father stating that his son's goal is to "get" his Eagle before High School.

Horizon pointed it out, but I still find it humorous.. A father will talk on behalf of his son and the entire den (of parents) stating that they will GET vice earn his(their) Eagle. Stating "get". No Scout gets a rank, they earn it themselves. And stating "His", As if the rank already belonged to their Webelos Scout(s), and they are just checking off the blocks. It still seems funny to me, for a father to be that bold.

Hopefully the new patrol will set good goals and achieve rank advancement. But probably the father will need to be reminded of the BSA mission statement, (from memory) to enable young men and women to make good moral and ethical decisions throughout their lifetime.

The Scouts will decide when and if they want to earn Eagle. If they want to achieve rank quickly, or if they want to make efficient use of every second of their time and squeeze every ounce of enjoyment out of their tenure in Scouting and earn Eagle just before they turn 18. It should be the Scout's choice and not the father's.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Mafaking,

Greetings!

You've received some really great, witty and knowledgeable replies. It may be possible, but it is not totally up to the dad (parents).

I would have replied as a question, just simple and along the lines of scoutldr, I would add.

Dad says "Yes but I want him to get his eagle before he enters high school. All the scouts and families in my den feel the same way."

I'd reply. "That is great; when does your SON want to get his eagle?"

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Jersey,

Greetings!

Real briefly.. I concur with emb021 for the source NCS, and all our fellow Scouters for the safety.

There are non BSA courses that you can obtain certifications if you want to work at a climbing park or team building park. Sometimes even colleges have courses in COPES/ROPES leading to the physical training and physical education degrees. These courses may be even more extensive than the BSA COPES class.

Like emb021 said, the BSA normally certifies their COPES Directors during a 40 hour safety course during National Camping School. The two main goals seem to be safety and team building.

Also, it seems the BSA offers HIGH COPES and LOW COPES. The difference (rule of thumb) I've usually be told, HIGH COPES is above 6 feet and requires safety gear. LOW COPES can be done on the ground of 6 inches above the ground (up to 6 feet) and needs to observe safety, but does not require safety equipment. Of course, the literature would provide the acurate definition of LOW COPES and HIGH COPES.

The main COPES literature is The Project COPE manual, No. 34371C. Rapelling and climbing would more be found in Topping Out manual.

Enjoy! and Hopefully you run a safe and exciting Klondike Derby!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings! Here with another P.S.

I just found this link to the Camp Standards for 2009. Obvious, BSA wants a NCS cert over an NRA cert, but NRA cert is acceptable to run the range. I posted only specific paragraphs below, so check the link to read the entire statement.

http://srbsa.org/public/services/program/camping/2009/standards/2009-ncs-standards-kit.pdf

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

" The camp shooting sports program may be operated by

military, law enforcement, 4-H, or NRA instructors, but the

camp will be conditionally accredited. In this instance,

each shooting sport range or area must have the current qualified

personnel and supervision to operate."

and

"NRA certification is available through the Shooting Sports

section of a National Camping School."

BadenP,

Greetings!

Correct. I agree, "a BSA camp school shooting credential is NOT the same as an NRA certification, and as I said before outside a BSA facility it has no value or credibility."

Maybe I should not have spoken for all NCS SSD courses.

My own NCS SSD course was taught by regional NCS trainers/NRA trainers. It was a 40+ hour course, not a one day seminar. Those students that desired, paid the extra fee and received NRA Trainer credentials. NCS SSD does use the NRA Trainer curriculum, I assumed that all NCS SSD students across the BSA were offered the option to apply for the NRA Trainer credentials.

I agree.. The NCS cert won't be worth a dime outside of Scouting. But the NRA Trainer cert (and 10 dollar application fee) was earned during the course of a week long NCS SSD course.

OGE, I'll take a look tonight at my NCS and Camp Standard literature. As I recall National Camp Standards gave those allowances/waivers (with an SSD on campus). Maybe my memory might not be so good though. "I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken" might fit. I could be refering to old literature, or maybe reading something into standards that I want to see. I'll look again tonight.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

P.S. I have found a link to the 2008 Camp Property and Program Management. Not the Camp Standards Visition report though. It helps define a Range Officer and SSD.

From my reading, it states that an SSD must have the NCS cert, but a Marksmanship Range Officer must "hold current instructor certification from the National Rifle Association (NRA) in the specific firearm for which the officer is giving supervision or training"

http://srbsa.org/public/services/program/docs/2008/(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Hadulzo,

Greetings!

Ms Crew21 and I are going as staff this next year, so we are not uniforming with the council. I spoke very briefly with my council contingent Scoutmaster(attended 2005 as well) and ASMs, and just offered a few thoughts from what I saw during last Jamboree.

In 2005, my troop had ball caps, 2 t-shirts, 1 polo shirt, and etc... Our heads were burning up under the sun with those ball caps, and the polo shirts didn't breath at all. Some mid-days were like a sauna at Ft A P Hill.

But my observations of other Jamboree troops equipment and casual uniform-wear was more meaningful.

Moisture wicking T-shirts. They are more expensive, but worth it.

And the smartest troop I saw at Jamboree, purchase about 50 summer loosely weaved straw "panama" hats from their local WalMart/KMart and sewn their CSP to the front (at a cost of around 10-15 dollar). Seriously and literally, they had to have been the coolest troop at Jamboree.

I wouldn't even do boonie caps, they would provide a little protection for the back of the neck, but still hot under the cloth. I would highly recommend the loosely weaved straw hats (like what you would find on a golf course) and a Jambo CSP.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters,

Greetings!

Just to throw out a few thoughts.

I'm pretty sure that Venturing training states that Crews can be all male, all female, or coed. Also, A Venturer does not have to previous been enrolled in a Boy Scout troop (or GSUSA troop).

Is it possible that the new NYLT literature will refer to all male Venturing Crews?

Also, I know training changes sometimes slowly migrate down from area training conferences. Usually these changes are factual, but take a year or more to make it into literature.

But I've also experienced friends coming back from conference, stating a discussion topic (or forward thinking idea) as absolute undeniable BSA gospel and the new implementing way of teaching, with no literature to back it up. On rare occasions, I have seen a few councils teach different methods than from the syllabus, anticipating a change to be forthcoming (maybe great ideas, but which never are published).

I think we all know that training gets updated, the same way all the program handbooks are reviewed and updated every few years.

Is it possible that the National Training Committee is just considering drastic changes? and the natl committee is still finding better leadership methods, outdoor skills, pilot programs or safety guidelines? Meanwhile, conference attendees are trying to "put the cart in front of the horse", and may act prematurely without a clear vision of BSA training.

Im not from Missouri aka the show me state so Id prefer to tread cautiously, but I will gladly implement changes once I see them published.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

wecamp4fun,

Just to clarify. I believe completion of the NCS SSD course still provides you with all the NRA literature for rifle, shotgun and muzzle loading; and the NAA literature for archery. But even more so, the NCS SSD instructors are certified NRA/NAA instructor trainers; and they provide the NCS learner with the NRA and NAA instructor credentials.

I guess what I want to say is this...... (without reviewing my camp standards literature)

An SSD is a NRA instructor (two separate certifications need to be applied for and maintained).

An NRA instructor, a military range officer or a police range officer can be a scout camp Range Officer, but not a Shooting Sports Director.

Not trying to change your mind. But just to clarify on the certifications (as I recall).

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

WestCoastScouter,

Greetings!

I agree with nolesrule and Oak Tree.

In my opinion....

Wood Badge gives you the tools to plan ahead and carry out that plan(s), and also how to network with other talented Scouters. Things that will assist your pack and troop over 2,3 or 4 years (or more)

Pow Wow and University of Scouting would give you program items, program helps, themes, crafts and ideas. Program that will help you every meeting.

So, while you may have put more effort in attending Wood Badge; I think the Den Leader Award is looking to recognize Den Leaders that can deliver a weekly program to their Den, full of fun and adventure.

Hope you're wearing the DL Award knot soon!

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

scoutldr,

Greetings!

Yeah.. It seems that NCS courses are usually conducted at the regional level. Classes are held in various councils, but not the full complement of the 24 courses. And NCS is not held at all the councils nationwide.

The primary seats, would be going to Boy Scout Summer Camp and Cub Day Camp staff. (Of course, every Scoutmaster or parent wants their Scout to attend a fun and safe summer camp). Summer camp programs get inspected every summer, to confirm they are safe and have sanitary cooking or food issue.

For NCS, after the primary seats are taken, I'd bet a Scout Executive could find out about available seats and individual cost. So, I'd bet you'd be able to obtain a seat, if you ask at the council. The various NCS courses of instruction are about 24 hours (3 days) to 40 hours (5 days). Most of the NCS courses have a 5 year expiration.

http://srbsa.org/public/services/program/camping/2010/2010-ncs-schedule-all-regions.pdf

The annually updated NCS literature and National Camp Standards visitation form will state absolutely what is acceptable or not acceptable during Summer Camp. And it would probably be best to model a troops rifle shooting, shotgun shooting and archery merit badge weekends similar to the National Camp Standards.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

wecamp4fun,

Greetings!

A Certified BSA instructor under firearms in the G2SS should be the same as Shooting Sport Director. You would have to attend National Camping School to achieve that designation.

A Shooting Sports Director has taken the 40 hour Rifle, Shotgun and Archery Instructor basics from National Camping School. The instructor material is "educational licensed or intellectual property" purchase from the NRA and NAA. Plus some additional BSA SSD documentation and safety courses on top of the NRA/NAA material.

The one day course sometimes offered at a Scouting University or Staff Development is usually a "Range Officer" certification. A Range Officer may train and operate the range (and raise the red flag to indicate an active or hot range), but a shooting sports director needs to be on campus during any rifle (to include air rifle), shotgun or archery events.

Ask your local Summer Camp Director if you can review the Summer Camp publications. I believe there are waivers for Range Officer (certified NRA, Police or military firearm instructors), but not for Shooting Sports Directors.

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv