johnsch322

The one consistent theme that I have seen from the BSA is the notion that there is nothing to see here, deflect, deny and minimize. Certain aspects of the above can also be seen thru the bankruptcy and from current members.

I am amazed that no one talked to you. I also was not asked and one of my perpetrators was in the IV files and was suspected of having 11 plus victims.

There was a court order and they fought it all the way to the Oregon Supreme Court. I am not a lawyer either.

Yes it is sad that the BSA did what they did (concealment). I am glad you agree with me @skeptic

The BSA is in the mess that they are because of rampant Child Sex Abuse that they kept away from the public i.e. withheld/concealed. Only two things could have kept BSA from this issue, 1. no CSA (not probable) 2 not concealing the records. It is not the lawyers fault, the parents fault nor the survivors fault. Nor was it was poor judgement in the society of the day it happened (concealment) and no one is trying to revision history except those who constantly float the blame to others or to a society at whole.

If it was not concealment than why did it take an order from the Oregon State Supreme Court to make the IV files available to those outside of the BSA?

The anger I feel as a survivor is not hatred, but my anger is at various people (my perpetrators') the organization that recruited my perpetrators knew there was a good chance I had been abused (BSA) and chose not to offer help, the bankruptcy itself where it seems certain entities are downplaying the value of my claim. I honestly feel more hate is directed at myself and my fellow survivors from active BSA adults who want to mitigate what happened and are worried more about what assets the BSA and LC's may have post bankruptcy then they care about what happened. I feel that there must be a ruling on the confirmation soon so we can can get closer to more certainty for both survivors and for members of the BSA. This cannot happen soon enough.

Yes you are correct. This is the fathers words. Something that is very, very serious and involves inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements would seem to be something the BSA would want the police or local authority outside of BSA to be looking into. As a parent I would want law enforcement involved weather my child was the accuser or the accused.

Shouldn't the inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements be reported to the police?

Obscure word but I did look it up...cause and effect. 18 months ago the bankruptcy was filed but there wasn't a tremendous amount of knowledge outside of the scouting community who were actually aware. I believe this has worked in BSA and the insurers favor.

It is a shame these documentaries did not come out 18 months ago. It may have put more public awareness and helped survivors in the bankruptcy settlements.

The number of abused in BSA could even be higher than 82,000. If you were abused and are now mentally incapacitated, dead, or for some personal reason did not want to be part of the case then you are not a claimant. I will give that some of the claims are bogus but someone who constantly calls for balance to not mention these facts is very one sided. How do you know this? My case has been vetted and other cases from survivors within my network have been vetted. Just because a claim has not been vetted does not make it untrue. There is nothing surprising that survivors did not bring this up until years later. I myself told no one for 50 plus years and only after I saw a couple of Facebook ads. Yet BSA knew that 11 plus youth in my troop had been abused by one of my abusers. No one approached me which really says BSA wanted to make as little furor over this as possible. The fact that the files existed at all speaks volumes that the BSA knew there was a problem, tried to keep the public unaware of it and most grossly tried to keep it out of the hands of survivors until the Oregon Supreme Court compelled them to. How many more times are you going to keep beating on this worn out carpet of an excuse? The verbiage "unwillingness of the victim/survivor or his family" is victim blaming in extreme. You cannot and should not use "societal positions on such things in most of the time frames" as even in todays society there is shame in being a victim. Most victims told no one because of the guilt, shame, and confusion. Hypocrisy at it's greatest. For you "some manner" means very little compensation. Look deep inside your self and you will find that the only true reason you want this bankruptcy to end is because you think the stench that surrounds the BSA will go away. Earlier today I asked you to please do not speak on behalf of survivors and I would like to explain that a little further, it is not your story or your journey in life. You have not lived with the mental turmoil or the physical issues that were caused by members of the BSA. You have not lived with the awakening, the sorrow nor any other aspect of how the bankruptcy has affected us the survivors. Feel free to speak on how this issue and all that it is has affected your own personal life. Feel free to speak about how you see all of this affecting the Boy Scouts as that is your personal journey. I would never try to speak on behalf of a Holocaust survivor as I was never in that situation. The end of the bankruptcy I believe will not end the suffering, mental anguish, or the difficulties that I and most of my brethren are going thru. It will not erase the memories of what happened to us or the fear of what may lie ahead for us. Death itself may not be the end because if there is a heaven or a hell and if we still have memory than all of this will never go away. So please do not speak for us.

Not sure of your profession, but you do know you are debating with lawyers (myself not included) don't you?

Outright owned.

I was not advocating for a BSA National Chapter 7 only trying to shed light on the "nobody gets nothing" idea.

I am in California and the LC which I was part of has about 19 million in assets of which under the plan they are giving up about 3 million but that pales in comparison to the insurance companies.

I may be mistaken but the entities that should be praying are the LC's, CO's and insurance companies. Those of us in open states will soon have cases filed in State court (California by end of the year). A BSA Chapter 7 does not include anyone but National.

Please do not speak for survivors. Frankly you are way underqualified and have a bias against survivors views.

Anyone see something ominous or nefarious in the cancellation of the June 17th hearing and rescheduling to July 20th?

No. Just suggested that you acquaint yourself with the past few years of discussions and debates. Is that to much to ask?

I think you should read all the threads relating to the bankruptcy before you ask this question. I believe all aspects of the bankruptcy has been discussed and debated at some point.

So does anyone know what the real value of the camps and property owned by the LC's?

Can you provide a link where Kosnoff is quoted saying that? Obviously not your champion but he is a champion to quite a few.

Why is the answer Kosnoff when he did not write the article nor was he quoted in the article?

Amen to these thoughts. For over 50 years I believed I was the only victim but now I know I am a strong survivor and I have other survivors to lean on when I need them.