jcousino

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Its my understanding in our District there are Scouts attending NYLT without having completed ILST at all, and no one cares.  Kinda of implies there are not SM making sure its happening in their Troops.  So... here we go. 

it really means that people running NYLt don't care also.

I would expect that NYLT numbers are used to the councils rating (journey to excellent)

I feel at least in my council wood badge is the same first year scouter being signed up for wood badge to make numbers

john

it would not totally surprise if come December ,January national comes out and say because of all the confusion in dealing with recharter of UMC church units we are going to extend  a grace period of 90 days to youth of these unit to recharter without being dropped Jan 1.

This will BSA to keep people on the roles who have dropped and will not be rechartering longer to make the number look better year to date. 

Just my wild thoughts

john

let's look at why I used laser tag I agree that pointing a gun at another person (first-person shooter games) does not fit the aims of scouting. so then why using a sword is ok or causing carnage with cars. The football was to best of the lot that could meet some of the scouting's goals. Not sure how much pay for play is involved.

Scouting (i know i am old) was based on the outdoor we are outside choice the counter to gaming with unreal risk and false rewards. I will choice the real world , being a little tired and dirty after a fun weekend out where I pushed my absolute limits and can say I did with real gains. sorry just beat my personal high score at warcraft does not do it.

Look at the national level of obese kids and adults so what does scouting what to set them down more, and for what aim?

so 

a game that is a direct fighting game. swordplay etc,

A game that involves causing carnage with cars.

And best of the lot is a game about football.

and we still cannot play laser tag. Not sure I totally follow this.

john

i always wonder how they count. 

if a Webelos crosses over mid year is they count 1/2 and 1/2 , 0 and 1 or more likely as 1 and 1 (cub -scout).

never could find the bodies to match the numbers (I think scouts had a problem with that way back)

just my 2.3 cents 

john

"Why is the world would any LC want to sponsor units? "

My belief is that most LC do not want to. But with the current legal risk climate and BSA national history ,they will have to or have little or no choice or no scout units .

My cracked crystal ball look At 2023 for scouting

• Less  local scout units less income , (less FOS ,activates ,ect )
• Less scout numbers less national /local donations income 
• Closing and merging into mega council size (much the same why GS has gone few unit large service area)
• Selling of now surplus properties (camps) building etc.
• Loss of large numbers of adult from merging of council kingdoms (OA, wood badge , ect) 
• More loss of  adult non scout professional (Tradesmen that work at camp for free) because of a lack of local connection, 
• Loss of a lot of gift in kind from above
• loss of use regular folks because of the distance involved with mega councils 
• Further loss of income due the evolving recession

The most sadly a loss to the youth of what scouting should be and could be influencing their lives 

I hope its very cracked and non of the above occurs

john

if I am the charter holder I can dictate where the troop goes and does already (they own the unit) Your current charter partner currently as that right but most CO's are very hand off. I can sure that the council model they will not be so hands off. 

If your troop does not want to comply as a council troop , they can just replace leadership at whim ,or  Disband the the troop , or they may even come up with a fine (fee) system if you want to go outside of scout council activities.

Just my option 

john 

check with your state park system many are looking for groups to put a program on with. 

John

I believe that will be the normal question and response that a lot of units will hear. But not a surprise at all. I find it hard in good conscience why any other group would want to take on the risk with that as the answer.

It surprises me again to my why of thinking why if a CO takes on a unit why would allow them to meet somewhere else other than their location , it make no sense to allow them to meet where they have no control over. More risk no control.

Insurance is good but its always after the event. I not any legal expert but a policy that would cover all possible events would be cost prohibitive , and still may have riders and deductibles. Plus all the insurance in the world does not bring the event back to zero (never happened)

once again we do not follow our own rules and get

upset if some one calls us on it. (hope its not one of those lawyer types that comes a calling)

I thought the rules for Short term camp went into place about 2 years ago when I went through my first short-term camp ad. classes and just completed my renewal.

There is no difference in the rules between council or district events. Even if staff stays over on a day-only event it can trigger the requirements. 

I agree with you SiouxRanger  that a lot of camp inspections were ok we will fix that (wink, wink). I would not surprise me if you found too much you might not be asked to be on that group next time, Just my 2 cents. I remember the amount of just junk  paperwork when i started over haling our health lodge

After completing mine it said sorry but we are not fund raising in your area. 

it only open to certain areas I tried to fill it out, 

jcousino

Hope it drops the price some . Excellent course just costly

youth on youth violence's I believe there is a worsen problem in scouting now, First based on changes to  ages of tent mates, no youth only camping (NYLT), ect). Not as much within a unit but at summer camps , I have have heard of many questionable behaviors (soon should have been criminal) toward female staff members and campers during mixed scouts events. It would not surprise me if scouting has not already been hit with sexual harassment suits for failing to protect female staff members from unwarranted comments and actions  by other staff or campers. 

john

1 hour ago, malraux said:

The previous rules allowed for a single gender boys den and a single gender girls den to meet at the same time and location. And den leaders can be den leaders of multiple dens.

that was just a way of not coming clean about what the real plan was.  co-ed i believe has always been the plan .

Just did not what to disenfranchise  some of the church based CO's right away

Coed troop will be next that may be a little harder to get the remaining COs fundamentals church to buy into.

I did like the concept of venture scouts being coed at that age (14-18-21)

You write the rules so that the council can point back to the CO you did not follow the agreement to follow the rules if there is a problem on a unit event. 

I keeping getting red listed in my in council( hot water)just trying to get  my council to follow G@SS on their on events.  I would find it hard to imagine were a council would sanction a troop unless in made national news. It going to be interesting how much control the council will play in events when they are the CO and now directly responsible for the action of the troops.

What about People who have professional requirement's  that make them  a required reporter to some form of state agency (law enforcement, Child welfare, Ect). I would report to the senior scout professional  present  then to proper state agency for follow up. Not a law enforcement ,fan  but i have heard things 3 rd hand if i had been been made aware of by the scout directly l then I would have to reported it . Directs threats of physical harm is one of the them. add a drug to another scouts water bottle would be an other.. Scout Exe  try to minorize most activities because it puts scouting in a bad light. 

"  

15 minutes ago, elitts said:

Given the fact that he was unequivocally gay,

Not a statement  i would make and not a defense. Need to find a better anecdote

My understanding under ypt is that scouting does not do the investigating. That's the job of children protective services (CPS) (law enforcement). Once the youth made the complaint the duty of the camp was to notify the scout ex and contract the youths parents and law enforcement. Threating statement are actionable, not sure what level the  inappropriate behavior reached. I do believe that bully is actionable in some state's. If the Youth has not been contracted by CPS by now it has not likely been reported. Scouting not following its own rules. Please if i am wrong let me know , So as a required reporter i would have called CPS myself. There no place for youth on youth violence If the lady is totally making this up making a false statement to CPS is a crime on her part

john

PS look at all the changes in the past 2 years in scouting to combat youth on youth problems

My understanding is that this is what the UMC agreed to as a model. They being the the biggest CO group it makes since to me that the other groups will soon allow this model. If they even want to continue scouting units.

A lot of my above is just me looking at questions going through my mind, 

fr. john (catholic but not roman if the FR. title is confusing)

Sound nice , but not sure why a council would give a charter to a group that has no assents and little money to cover liability costs alone or why would i risk offering my building if you can not supply proof of liability  coverage for the  building?

Help me understand things under the this new arrangement (council is now the CO)

1. Council now can select or reject a troop leader  based on their personal relationship with council, so council  can cherry pick people and those that question council activity can just not be accepted. 

2. Can council merge units based on what ever three small troops may become one.

3. Do we know the fee that will be charged to manage troop account's?

4. Can council now require unit to attend  activities or face changes in leadership?

5. Will council now be able to say no to troop trips (to nonscout bases ).

6. At what level will council require troops to get approval to spend money

7. Will donations to FOS be made automatically

Just a few of my wild thoughts

Fr. John

Glad to see some one else stepped up. I would question for how long? If the biggest player on the Block UMC see's the writing on the wall as to risk verse cost  many other smaller  church and private groups will be following inline. My personal belief is that many of the smaller groups have been waiting to see what the UMC would do ,now that it's out they will be following the UMC lead.

19 hours ago, MattR said:

Rather than give any money to the council I'd suggest going to one of the camps, ask them what they need that's worth about $250 and go buy it for them. They will be thankful. Do not give them the money and do not give it to the council saying it's for the camp as the camp will never see it. This is my experience.

In the meantime, tell the guy that told you the 40% fable that the deal is off the table because they lied to you. Nobody pays 40%, not even for popcorn - that has a built in 33% that goes to the council.

<end of rant>

I agree gave over $5000 dollars in in kind gift to my camp over the last year or so i will never give cash to the council no control on how it is spend?