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jcousino

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Posts posted by jcousino

  1. I can see how they had a major cow over that , they feel any thing done in the name of scouting belongs to them. I have seen  this before when troops would get donations form  bigger chains then the  chains would  tells friend of scouting campaigns that they have already given there allotment to scouts (troops). 

    I would be interested to see how this plays off next year.as the Troop did not solicit solute the company ,but only benefited from a company worker policy.

    PS about how much are we talking here?

     

    john

  2. Some how maybe i am missing something here . its not whether scouting is better or worse than other groups. It comes down because of the actions or inaction or a mixture of the two , people where hurt some totally destroyed. Not even to add in the lives around them that were changed for ever. I wish we had a better system to right wrongs but this is the best we have. I hope and pray that out of this scouting is better and all youth programs are better at protecting the youth under there charge. 

    • Like 1
  3. On 4/22/2022 at 7:56 PM, yknot said:

     

    This is where I am stuck. If we know gross buffoonery and safety issues are STILL occurring after being sued into bankrutpcy, why are we trying so hard to save this organization? Can it be saved? A small part of me thinks it's possible, and that's why I'm still here, but why should any volunteer have to fight so hard to keep kids safe in a 100 year old youth organization? 

    My view is that I am greatly sadden by the events and actions of the past, I have no idea where scouting will be  in the next  five years . My greatest and only concerns is is for the youth here today.

     

    Ps looks like i am in good company, Its nice to hear

  4.  

    Got to be careful

    I got told that i use to much of the councils time having to deals with my  safety concerns  and youth management issues and i have been banded  from any activities outside of my unit.

    john

     

     

     

  5. 19 hours ago, yknot said:

    Think about what scouters do with other peoples' children and where they do it with them. It doesn't take much to prove willful negligence on the part of a scouter or a CO in the event a child is injured on an outing. Weather is a big one. Scouters who proudly, publicly, and recklessly claim they never cancel a camp out...  

    Try to get the professionals and the upper level volunteers to follow he BSA rules is hard enough. My most scary answer i am given often is is no one has been hurt. .

    My reply is YET.

     

    • Upvote 1
  6. 5 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    Option 6.  Create your own 501 c(3), "Troop XX Boosters" or some such...  Become your own chartering org, sign your facilities agreement, carry on...  Transparent to your Scouts.

    Bad choice as this makes the signers at  risk for any  claims (any cause). I would never ask any one to be willing to place their home at risk for scouting.

     

    • Thanks 1
  7. i would be happy if all levels of BSA would follow their own rules. Tired of trying to tell professional and upper level volunteers what scouting rules and policies are. Was told told by a long term DE that they did not know all the rules covered in the guide to safe scouting. Not sure how they are to able to over see events . completed short term camp administrator program when it came out . It just made me very afraid of what had been going on in the past based on some  of the rules.

    • Upvote 2
  8. A near miss report that one that I have not hear of in scouting circles. (needs it badly)All other risk prone outdoor groups i work with at least require it. To be of value it needs to be open to the group to analyze and learn from and hopefully take preventive corrective actions. Not a likely event in scouting. I go agree that the dinner hall is normally one of  the better places to go for lighting. But if your dinner hall is like the ones i have seen it all glass so any wind born debris would make it a killing zone.

    Be careful  with the feedback been told that i am taking up to much of the councils time with safety issues and suggestions

     

     

    • Thanks 1
  9. 18 hours ago, GrammaScout said:

    Thanks for your opinion although it reveals that you are greatly mistaken about the 'Christianity' of the Boy Scouts Program of the USA.  The requirement is that a Scout must have a belief in a higher power.  For a long time, the majority were those who believed in the 'Christian God'.  The values and principles of the program align well with Christian teachings....but also with Jewish, Hindu, Muslim teachings...all who have a belief in a higher power than themselves.   Atheists are not eligible although we KNOW of Scouts and Adults who lied to get in.  There are Troops that are all Jewish or all Muslim, etc. likely sponsored by a house of worship or a business  of their own denominations.   And that works, that is OK.   Scouts can earn the religious award given in their denomination while in a Troop that is predominantly of another.   

    If a Church...like ours tried to do...puts the Scout Troop under the Youth Ministry of the Church...there is nothing but problems. If there is no christian input by the christian chartering partner which is well within there rights to require any level of involve ment.had NO knowledge whatsoever but yet presented this 'plan' that essentially made the Troop a 'Lutheran Youth Activity'.   Parents may not necessarily want their Scouts to be that close to a denomination that is not theirs...that is their right.  It becomes run by the Youth Minister, not the Scout Committe, and certainly not the Scouts.  Religion is but a small part of a huge program of multitudes of activities.  Any Church member including that Youth Minister who is assigned to become part of the 'Committee', attend outings perhaps, must be trained...and no member wanted to 'go that far'.   Other Youth in the Church could not participate in the activities unless they became a Scout...and that led to some friction when they saw the many things the Troop did as compared to the regular Youth program.

    I believe that it is the job of the CO to 'oversee' from a distance.  Meet and make friends with all the Scouting Adults...come to a meeting once or twice...reveal the presence but not 'corporate control'.  

    Years back it was policy that every new Church President and perhaps others would connect with the Scoutmaster and those on the Committee.   That stopped about 10 years ago...the beginning of the nasty attitude that led to the dumping of this Troop of 70.

    It is not a 'Christian' organization...although many see it as that.  It is compatible with  Christian teachings.  And that is all it has to be.    

     

     

     

    Let me look at this a little differently. Yes, you are right at any level above the unit level. Scouting cannot favor one faith over another. But the unit is wholly owned by the chartering organization and can set whatever faith rules they want as no one is required to join that troop.

    I have seen CO require that the scout leadership either be members of that church or sign that they agree with the teaching of that church. I have seen groups require some level of a statement of faith. The LDS church was the best example of that. The church picked the leadership and made all the rules of membership.

    Not sure why her being female is a problem introduce her to the scouting process. To me, she should be the Charter organization rep. or at least on the committee As youth development is under her office. It’s not your troop really. It’s the churches troop as you are a part of the CO troop. Your troop is not an independent group.

     So basically you want the church membership to pay to provide you with a building and cover your insurance needs, sign a few forms, and leave you alone. So what do they get for their investment? What you are describing to me is your church is more like if an American Legion post sponsored your troop. They would have no reason to inject Christian values into the unit.

    I believe what you say is 100% accurate, seeing many churches run that way. My complaint is that if the church does not interject some teaching Christ and Christian principles ( You cannot claim Christian principles without Christ), then they should not call it a ministry of the church as they are acting more like an American Legion post ( God bless the good men and women of the posts)

    When one joins the church troop it should be made plain if they are uncomfortable there are other troops sponsored by other good groups that are not sponsored by a Christian church. If the troop was sponsored by a Hindu temple then I would expect the Hindu faith to be taught.

    The CO agrees to run the scouting program so I would expect the troop to run like a scout troop. Sorry it sounds like you have had personalty problems in the past.

    • Upvote 2
  10. Not sure why any Christian church would sponsor any scout troop that was not a direct extension of its youth Christian ministry of that church. If the church does not involve the troop in its ministry efforts then please not call it a ministry of the church. My view is that all are welcome no matter your faith background but understand we are a Christian church that believes in Christ preached. (hope this is the view of all Christian sponsors of scouting) This should be made known upfront. There are other fine secular scout-sponsored groups if this a problem

    • Downvote 1
  11. Needs some outside answers (do not trust my councils one's)

    1. is  MDC a district only position

    2  is  a merit badge councilor required to be on the district committee even if the have a troop spot

    3.  are then required to work with all scouts or can they limit as what units they will work with.

     

     

    thanks john

  12. Need help on this for  the group

    After looking over the current A_B medicine form on the first part  their is a paragraph that requires that parents release any and all photos ,images

    ,ect even rights to their Childs voice while under going scout functioning with in the BSA umbrellas with out an option to retain there right. If they do not sign the general  release and wavier  they can not take part in scouting events.

    Not sure how many read what they sign

    FR. John

    PS in my state you are not  allowed to photographing  children  in DCS care so how is that handled

     

    I also hereby assign and grant to the local council and the Boy Scouts of America, as well as their authorized representatives, the right and permission to use and publish the photographs/film/ videotapes/electronic representations and/or sound recordings made of me or my child at all Scouting activities, and I hereby release the Boy Scouts of America, the local council, the activity coordinators, and all employees, volunteers, related parties, or other organizations associated with the activity from any and all liability from such use and publication. I further authorize the reproduction, sale, copyright, exhibit, broadcast, electronic storage, and/or distribution of said photographs/film/videotapes/electronic representations and/or sound recordings without limitation at the discretion of the BSA, and I specifically waive any right to any compensation I may have for any of the foregoing.

    • Upvote 1
  13.  

    Not sure i can call most church troops a a youth ministry under the current plan  (RC and Methodist)

    (The one thing that Trail life does well)

    no direct involvement by the youth ministers, no invitations to services or letter of welcome. no Christian teaching or prayer, no talk of any God and country awards.  In some settings the leadership not even of that church's faith 

    They only provided was a meeting place (new plan) and a mostly unknown level of risk for the troop. (reason why some are not rechartering)

     

    • Upvote 1
  14. Your last part of your question will cause the most problems as to understanding the relationship and ownership changes The council and the church will now have to agree to what happens to the equipment . The council view is that it was given in name of scout not the churches. Change from a few year back when it was fully the churches.

     

    The answer to first part will the question of the year . My understanding is the the council may become to chartering organization. 

    To my above , why would any other group want to take on the risk?

     

    john

  15. I would think twice and after a lot of  legal consultation before i would ever think of starting a " friend of group" as as chartering partner. The friends of group could now be the finically responsible  parties if an event where to occur.

    Not sure i want to loss my house and saving because a child is hurt or injurie not alone being a victim of an other.

    If the Big Dogs (CO) are running scared I am personal not willing to pay the cost the cost  or take the risk

    Just the cost of defending yourself as the chartering body could be in ten of thousands of dollars.

     

    John

    • Upvote 1
  16. Ok while i like my version better after rereading my quote it looks like it only applies to summer camp . i was wrong sorry

    .

    I would begin to question any adult that would not do a background check or complete youth protection after any form of 72 hours of contact

    I personaly like the idea that it should be cumulative if an adult is attending scouting events in an active role with youth content  for that long they have had enough time to decide that they want to be a some type of leader or not. 

    If after that period they say then still say no then they stay home if the adult plays the parental card  then you may have the parent and the youth leave the group. 

    I  side of the protection of the many.

     

  17. i hope we are all clear here the 72 hour rule is in total contract time 

    an adult going on his second weekend camp with the troop is very likely to have used up that 72 hour window (2 x 36 hours) + any troop  meeting time . It does not reset or only apply to long term camp summer camp. So there should be really little time or reason that  all adults on a trip should not be a registered leader of some type

    All adults accompanying a Scouting unit who are present at the activity for 72 total hours or more must be registered as leaders. The 72 hours need not be consecutive.

    One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.

    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/

    Fr. John

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