jcousino

What about People who have professional requirement's  that make them  a required reporter to some form of state agency (law enforcement, Child welfare, Ect). I would report to the senior scout professional  present  then to proper state agency for follow up. Not a law enforcement ,fan  but i have heard things 3 rd hand if i had been been made aware of by the scout directly l then I would have to reported it . Directs threats of physical harm is one of the them. add a drug to another scouts water bottle would be an other.. Scout Exe  try to minorize most activities because it puts scouting in a bad light. 

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15 minutes ago, elitts said:

Given the fact that he was unequivocally gay,

Not a statement  i would make and not a defense. Need to find a better anecdote

My understanding under ypt is that scouting does not do the investigating. That's the job of children protective services (CPS) (law enforcement). Once the youth made the complaint the duty of the camp was to notify the scout ex and contract the youths parents and law enforcement. Threating statement are actionable, not sure what level the  inappropriate behavior reached. I do believe that bully is actionable in some state's. If the Youth has not been contracted by CPS by now it has not likely been reported. Scouting not following its own rules. Please if i am wrong let me know , So as a required reporter i would have called CPS myself. There no place for youth on youth violence If the lady is totally making this up making a false statement to CPS is a crime on her part

john

PS look at all the changes in the past 2 years in scouting to combat youth on youth problems

My understanding is that this is what the UMC agreed to as a model. They being the the biggest CO group it makes since to me that the other groups will soon allow this model. If they even want to continue scouting units.

A lot of my above is just me looking at questions going through my mind, 

fr. john (catholic but not roman if the FR. title is confusing)

Sound nice , but not sure why a council would give a charter to a group that has no assents and little money to cover liability costs alone or why would i risk offering my building if you can not supply proof of liability  coverage for the  building?

Help me understand things under the this new arrangement (council is now the CO)

1. Council now can select or reject a troop leader  based on their personal relationship with council, so council  can cherry pick people and those that question council activity can just not be accepted. 

2. Can council merge units based on what ever three small troops may become one.

3. Do we know the fee that will be charged to manage troop account's?

4. Can council now require unit to attend  activities or face changes in leadership?

5. Will council now be able to say no to troop trips (to nonscout bases ).

6. At what level will council require troops to get approval to spend money

7. Will donations to FOS be made automatically

Just a few of my wild thoughts

Fr. John

Glad to see some one else stepped up. I would question for how long? If the biggest player on the Block UMC see's the writing on the wall as to risk verse cost  many other smaller  church and private groups will be following inline. My personal belief is that many of the smaller groups have been waiting to see what the UMC would do ,now that it's out they will be following the UMC lead.

19 hours ago, MattR said:

Rather than give any money to the council I'd suggest going to one of the camps, ask them what they need that's worth about $250 and go buy it for them. They will be thankful. Do not give them the money and do not give it to the council saying it's for the camp as the camp will never see it. This is my experience.

In the meantime, tell the guy that told you the 40% fable that the deal is off the table because they lied to you. Nobody pays 40%, not even for popcorn - that has a built in 33% that goes to the council.

<end of rant>

I agree gave over $5000 dollars in in kind gift to my camp over the last year or so i will never give cash to the council no control on how it is spend?

I can see how they had a major cow over that , they feel any thing done in the name of scouting belongs to them. I have seen  this before when troops would get donations form  bigger chains then the  chains would  tells friend of scouting campaigns that they have already given there allotment to scouts (troops). 

I would be interested to see how this plays off next year.as the Troop did not solicit solute the company ,but only benefited from a company worker policy.

PS about how much are we talking here?

john

Some how maybe i am missing something here . its not whether scouting is better or worse than other groups. It comes down because of the actions or inaction or a mixture of the two , people where hurt some totally destroyed. Not even to add in the lives around them that were changed for ever. I wish we had a better system to right wrongs but this is the best we have. I hope and pray that out of this scouting is better and all youth programs are better at protecting the youth under there charge. 

On 4/22/2022 at 7:56 PM, yknot said:

 

This is where I am stuck. If we know gross buffoonery and safety issues are STILL occurring after being sued into bankrutpcy, why are we trying so hard to save this organization? Can it be saved? A small part of me thinks it's possible, and that's why I'm still here, but why should any volunteer have to fight so hard to keep kids safe in a 100 year old youth organization? 

My view is that I am greatly sadden by the events and actions of the past, I have no idea where scouting will be  in the next  five years . My greatest and only concerns is is for the youth here today.

Ps looks like i am in good company, Its nice to hear

Got to be careful

I got told that i use to much of the councils time having to deals with my  safety concerns  and youth management issues and i have been banded  from any activities outside of my unit.

john

WOW, 

that a powerful video. 

If it gets picked nationally scouting recovery may be in question.

Surely do not want any of my  kids or anyone elses at  risk.

John

19 hours ago, yknot said:

Think about what scouters do with other peoples' children and where they do it with them. It doesn't take much to prove willful negligence on the part of a scouter or a CO in the event a child is injured on an outing. Weather is a big one. Scouters who proudly, publicly, and recklessly claim they never cancel a camp out...  

Try to get the professionals and the upper level volunteers to follow he BSA rules is hard enough. My most scary answer i am given often is is no one has been hurt. .

My reply is YET.

5 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Option 6.  Create your own 501 c(3), "Troop XX Boosters" or some such...  Become your own chartering org, sign your facilities agreement, carry on...  Transparent to your Scouts.

Bad choice as this makes the signers at  risk for any  claims (any cause). I would never ask any one to be willing to place their home at risk for scouting.

i would be happy if all levels of BSA would follow their own rules. Tired of trying to tell professional and upper level volunteers what scouting rules and policies are. Was told told by a long term DE that they did not know all the rules covered in the guide to safe scouting. Not sure how they are to able to over see events . completed short term camp administrator program when it came out . It just made me very afraid of what had been going on in the past based on some  of the rules.

my question where was the camp ranger during this event ? He is high on the command change as to camp safety

just some photo from a near strike at our outdoor skills shelter , no scouts there at the time .

Eagle94 if your council has a policy of pulling scout in during storm which it does and they did not it ,It is child endangerment. Legal reporting is not an option its most likely the law . Check with child protective services not The SE will most likely will attempt to down play it. 

A near miss report that one that I have not hear of in scouting circles. (needs it badly)All other risk prone outdoor groups i work with at least require it. To be of value it needs to be open to the group to analyze and learn from and hopefully take preventive corrective actions. Not a likely event in scouting. I go agree that the dinner hall is normally one of  the better places to go for lighting. But if your dinner hall is like the ones i have seen it all glass so any wind born debris would make it a killing zone.

Be careful  with the feedback been told that i am taking up to much of the councils time with safety issues and suggestions

18 hours ago, GrammaScout said:

Thanks for your opinion although it reveals that you are greatly mistaken about the 'Christianity' of the Boy Scouts Program of the USA.  The requirement is that a Scout must have a belief in a higher power.  For a long time, the majority were those who believed in the 'Christian God'.  The values and principles of the program align well with Christian teachings....but also with Jewish, Hindu, Muslim teachings...all who have a belief in a higher power than themselves.   Atheists are not eligible although we KNOW of Scouts and Adults who lied to get in.  There are Troops that are all Jewish or all Muslim, etc. likely sponsored by a house of worship or a business  of their own denominations.   And that works, that is OK.   Scouts can earn the religious award given in their denomination while in a Troop that is predominantly of another.   

If a Church...like ours tried to do...puts the Scout Troop under the Youth Ministry of the Church...there is nothing but problems. If there is no christian input by the christian chartering partner which is well within there rights to require any level of involve ment.had NO knowledge whatsoever but yet presented this 'plan' that essentially made the Troop a 'Lutheran Youth Activity'.   Parents may not necessarily want their Scouts to be that close to a denomination that is not theirs...that is their right.  It becomes run by the Youth Minister, not the Scout Committe, and certainly not the Scouts.  Religion is but a small part of a huge program of multitudes of activities.  Any Church member including that Youth Minister who is assigned to become part of the 'Committee', attend outings perhaps, must be trained...and no member wanted to 'go that far'.   Other Youth in the Church could not participate in the activities unless they became a Scout...and that led to some friction when they saw the many things the Troop did as compared to the regular Youth program.

I believe that it is the job of the CO to 'oversee' from a distance.  Meet and make friends with all the Scouting Adults...come to a meeting once or twice...reveal the presence but not 'corporate control'.  

Years back it was policy that every new Church President and perhaps others would connect with the Scoutmaster and those on the Committee.   That stopped about 10 years ago...the beginning of the nasty attitude that led to the dumping of this Troop of 70.

It is not a 'Christian' organization...although many see it as that.  It is compatible with  Christian teachings.  And that is all it has to be.    

 

 

 

Let me look at this a little differently. Yes, you are right at any level above the unit level. Scouting cannot favor one faith over another. But the unit is wholly owned by the chartering organization and can set whatever faith rules they want as no one is required to join that troop.

I have seen CO require that the scout leadership either be members of that church or sign that they agree with the teaching of that church. I have seen groups require some level of a statement of faith. The LDS church was the best example of that. The church picked the leadership and made all the rules of membership.

Not sure why her being female is a problem introduce her to the scouting process. To me, she should be the Charter organization rep. or at least on the committee As youth development is under her office. It’s not your troop really. It’s the churches troop as you are a part of the CO troop. Your troop is not an independent group.

 So basically you want the church membership to pay to provide you with a building and cover your insurance needs, sign a few forms, and leave you alone. So what do they get for their investment? What you are describing to me is your church is more like if an American Legion post sponsored your troop. They would have no reason to inject Christian values into the unit.

I believe what you say is 100% accurate, seeing many churches run that way. My complaint is that if the church does not interject some teaching Christ and Christian principles ( You cannot claim Christian principles without Christ), then they should not call it a ministry of the church as they are acting more like an American Legion post ( God bless the good men and women of the posts)

When one joins the church troop it should be made plain if they are uncomfortable there are other troops sponsored by other good groups that are not sponsored by a Christian church. If the troop was sponsored by a Hindu temple then I would expect the Hindu faith to be taught.

The CO agrees to run the scouting program so I would expect the troop to run like a scout troop. Sorry it sounds like you have had personalty problems in the past.

1 minute ago, MikeS72 said:

I do believe that was meant a joke/sarcasm. 😁

sorry did not read all the posts

Not sure why any Christian church would sponsor any scout troop that was not a direct extension of its youth Christian ministry of that church. If the church does not involve the troop in its ministry efforts then please not call it a ministry of the church. My view is that all are welcome no matter your faith background but understand we are a Christian church that believes in Christ preached. (hope this is the view of all Christian sponsors of scouting) This should be made known upfront. There are other fine secular scout-sponsored groups if this a problem

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Work with the scouter to have the troop buy the building and loan it to the church for occasional use.  

How can a troop buy anything as they are a subpart of the church or sponsoring group?