jcousino

not  sure how to understand these numbers (ie)

pack 3300 current 10--21 (39) does this number include the scouts that have left the pack, but their registration is still valid until 12-31 so a total on 2-23 will be much fewer members if i understand this right.

If they are reporting numbers not allowing for registration losses these numbers are highly misrepresentative. to better report this they need a column for expected registration losses plus transfers to troops

t least in Texas the insurance of the tow vehicle extends to the trailer in the event of an accident.  So, whoever is towing is on the hook.

Back again when we did tour permits and there were some checks on Insurnace and drivers , when was the last time you asked for license status and enforce insurance when taking a scout trip with or without a trailer.

This whole risk area now would transfer back to CO to foot the bill one of reasons tour permits were transferred to the units to carry out so the council could claim no direct responsibility.

Most CO and unit have no good idea of the risk when sponsoring an event.

John

You had said that they had bought the trailer for the defunct troop

who covers the trailer if it involved in a crash church or the member?

if the parent leaves, does he take the equipment with him.

Not try to be difficult here just pointing out the possible land mines here as to the true ownership here.  I will let the real lawyers here  explain possible problem with risk and ownership and third part use.

I would doubt that any formal paperwork was exchanged

This again goes to the ides how could you technically buy a troop trailer from a defuncted troop the trailer was owned by old CO's or the councils at that time as the troop cannot own assets out right. Thats my understanding, So a member of your CO should be the one who is registration for the trailer to the CO.

PS who did you send the money to.

The Council president can't just remove somebody so that sounds like intimidation to me. 

yes they can and have with no reason given and no recourse

john

This has happened to me and others in this forum, for asking questions about decisions, governance, and finances.

At least you will be in the company of good scouter that are not afraid to ask questions. Some people do not like being reminded that scouting is for the youth

glad to hear there are a few left i was under the impression that most of the post left scouting to go under their own fire and police state level academies ,based on years of no support from scouting. That was what i was hearing pre covid

As to explores still operating that got to be one of BSa best keep secrets, thanks for reminding me about learning for life side of scouting another area that i had thought had gone away , because to my understanding  they only existed to get arounds scout views at the time  on gay membership.

 thank for the up date

     not sure I totally agree with that assumption; the coast guard auxiliary (they run the sea scout program for the CG) is facing its own membership problem with the average CG auxiliary member being over 65 years old/ with a drop in membership system-wide. we have 4 flotillas based out of the small coast depot here in Chattanooga, Tn most have about 25 on the books with less than 10 at any one meeting. and two private boats.  Yes, the coast guard has made it their youth program most of that happened pre covid, pre bankruptcy. I would suggest that the opening up of the paddle craft level from a traditional ship points to a decreasing membership. I have enjoyed the different options that sea Scouts offered to the scouting movement. I am afraid that they will go the way the explorer program.

i was also sad to see venture scouts dying out and the police a fire posts leave scouting also

john

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Its my understanding in our District there are Scouts attending NYLT without having completed ILST at all, and no one cares.  Kinda of implies there are not SM making sure its happening in their Troops.  So... here we go. 

it really means that people running NYLt don't care also.

I would expect that NYLT numbers are used to the councils rating (journey to excellent)

I feel at least in my council wood badge is the same first year scouter being signed up for wood badge to make numbers

john

it would not totally surprise if come December ,January national comes out and say because of all the confusion in dealing with recharter of UMC church units we are going to extend  a grace period of 90 days to youth of these unit to recharter without being dropped Jan 1.

This will BSA to keep people on the roles who have dropped and will not be rechartering longer to make the number look better year to date. 

Just my wild thoughts

john

let's look at why I used laser tag I agree that pointing a gun at another person (first-person shooter games) does not fit the aims of scouting. so then why using a sword is ok or causing carnage with cars. The football was to best of the lot that could meet some of the scouting's goals. Not sure how much pay for play is involved.

Scouting (i know i am old) was based on the outdoor we are outside choice the counter to gaming with unreal risk and false rewards. I will choice the real world , being a little tired and dirty after a fun weekend out where I pushed my absolute limits and can say I did with real gains. sorry just beat my personal high score at warcraft does not do it.

Look at the national level of obese kids and adults so what does scouting what to set them down more, and for what aim?

so 

a game that is a direct fighting game. swordplay etc,

A game that involves causing carnage with cars.

And best of the lot is a game about football.

and we still cannot play laser tag. Not sure I totally follow this.

john

i always wonder how they count. 

if a Webelos crosses over mid year is they count 1/2 and 1/2 , 0 and 1 or more likely as 1 and 1 (cub -scout).

never could find the bodies to match the numbers (I think scouts had a problem with that way back)

just my 2.3 cents 

john

"Why is the world would any LC want to sponsor units? "

My belief is that most LC do not want to. But with the current legal risk climate and BSA national history ,they will have to or have little or no choice or no scout units .

My cracked crystal ball look At 2023 for scouting

• Less  local scout units less income , (less FOS ,activates ,ect )
• Less scout numbers less national /local donations income 
• Closing and merging into mega council size (much the same why GS has gone few unit large service area)
• Selling of now surplus properties (camps) building etc.
• Loss of large numbers of adult from merging of council kingdoms (OA, wood badge , ect) 
• More loss of  adult non scout professional (Tradesmen that work at camp for free) because of a lack of local connection, 
• Loss of a lot of gift in kind from above
• loss of use regular folks because of the distance involved with mega councils 
• Further loss of income due the evolving recession

The most sadly a loss to the youth of what scouting should be and could be influencing their lives 

I hope its very cracked and non of the above occurs

john

if I am the charter holder I can dictate where the troop goes and does already (they own the unit) Your current charter partner currently as that right but most CO's are very hand off. I can sure that the council model they will not be so hands off. 

If your troop does not want to comply as a council troop , they can just replace leadership at whim ,or  Disband the the troop , or they may even come up with a fine (fee) system if you want to go outside of scout council activities.

Just my option 

john 

check with your state park system many are looking for groups to put a program on with. 

John

I believe that will be the normal question and response that a lot of units will hear. But not a surprise at all. I find it hard in good conscience why any other group would want to take on the risk with that as the answer.

It surprises me again to my why of thinking why if a CO takes on a unit why would allow them to meet somewhere else other than their location , it make no sense to allow them to meet where they have no control over. More risk no control.

Insurance is good but its always after the event. I not any legal expert but a policy that would cover all possible events would be cost prohibitive , and still may have riders and deductibles. Plus all the insurance in the world does not bring the event back to zero (never happened)

once again we do not follow our own rules and get

upset if some one calls us on it. (hope its not one of those lawyer types that comes a calling)

I thought the rules for Short term camp went into place about 2 years ago when I went through my first short-term camp ad. classes and just completed my renewal.

There is no difference in the rules between council or district events. Even if staff stays over on a day-only event it can trigger the requirements. 

I agree with you SiouxRanger  that a lot of camp inspections were ok we will fix that (wink, wink). I would not surprise me if you found too much you might not be asked to be on that group next time, Just my 2 cents. I remember the amount of just junk  paperwork when i started over haling our health lodge

After completing mine it said sorry but we are not fund raising in your area. 

it only open to certain areas I tried to fill it out, 

jcousino

Hope it drops the price some . Excellent course just costly

youth on youth violence's I believe there is a worsen problem in scouting now, First based on changes to  ages of tent mates, no youth only camping (NYLT), ect). Not as much within a unit but at summer camps , I have have heard of many questionable behaviors (soon should have been criminal) toward female staff members and campers during mixed scouts events. It would not surprise me if scouting has not already been hit with sexual harassment suits for failing to protect female staff members from unwarranted comments and actions  by other staff or campers. 

john

1 hour ago, malraux said:

The previous rules allowed for a single gender boys den and a single gender girls den to meet at the same time and location. And den leaders can be den leaders of multiple dens.

that was just a way of not coming clean about what the real plan was.  co-ed i believe has always been the plan .

Just did not what to disenfranchise  some of the church based CO's right away

Coed troop will be next that may be a little harder to get the remaining COs fundamentals church to buy into.

I did like the concept of venture scouts being coed at that age (14-18-21)

You write the rules so that the council can point back to the CO you did not follow the agreement to follow the rules if there is a problem on a unit event. 

I keeping getting red listed in my in council( hot water)just trying to get  my council to follow G@SS on their on events.  I would find it hard to imagine were a council would sanction a troop unless in made national news. It going to be interesting how much control the council will play in events when they are the CO and now directly responsible for the action of the troops.