Navybone

I too am a military member with as many years in the service (and still serving) and completely disagree with you. The US is decidedly not a military state. There are reasons that military wear (camp pants) are frowned on to be worn at account events. BSA is not about training youth for military, but for developing leadership, resilience, confidence, and Overall contribute to society as adults. While this is much like that military offers, BSA is not a military organization. What Liz says is fine, and I have concern with your lack of tolerance with people who disagree with you.

BSA is not saying they will teach intolerance or rioting, the exact opposite. Rioter are going to riot, for what ever reason, same with looters. But protesting an injustice, and continuing to portent is as American as apple pie. And it’s not diversity first, it’s in addition to. Nothing is binary here.

That the guy they have also attacking women on video, before he uses mace and then shoots a guy during a protest. You are right, that is not scouting.

I have decided to look at this current situation and look at myself to see how I can work to make change, to do my part not to support or tolerate racism. I am adamant that the status quo is not enough. It obviously is not. It has not Contributed to changing the situation, and we have a significant number of our American population who are disenfranchised because racism is tolerated. I applause BSA for being willing to participate in the confersation, knowing that it has a national presence across this great country and can make a difference, and not just bury it head in the sand and refuse to see an issue or a way to resolve it. Scouts is all about being a change agent, it’s entire fundamental concept is creating men and women who are meaningful members of society, rocks for their community, and there to help those who need it. What makes it so unique and successful is the menthol in which it does this. discrimination of an y type does not have to be accepted. It has to be confronted. Otherwise women would not have the right to vote, blacks would still be slaves, pogroms of Jews would be allowed, etc. For being a melting pot of a nation, we constantly push back against discrimination - the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the Japanese. I believe in the scout oath and the scout law. And where is says a scout is brave, the scout needs to understand and learn how to stand up to racism, not let it see the light of day.

Two thoughts, First based on your website - "Police killed 1004 people in 2019. Black people were 24% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population" Second, and the most important in my mind - this is not about systematic racism or police bias. That is what some of the protest are about, but it is really about stopping racism in the entire country. This is not a new problem, it has been part of this nation since its start. It did not end after the civil war, it did not end with civil rights legislation, it still exist. That is what the MB and the scouts can help stop. And if we can, why would we not do that? I am not saying it has to be a MB, but is should be part of the program. BSA has the ability to influence young minds in so many positive ways.

Two thoughts, First - MBs are only a check in the block is the scouts leadership lets it be. If you teach scouts standards and the need to meet them early, you can instill in them the same outlook on standards throughout their lives. You let them pencil whip it or ignore it, what is the lesson they learn. And you can control this. Second - if this is what you see in the value of scouting and the ability to impact a scouts life, why are you doing this? For some, we are the primary influence. For some, we may be the only opposing view of that they learn or hear at home. And I firmly think we should be there for those "some" scouts. Otherwise, why is Eagle Scout held in such regard? Why do people spend their hard earned cash and time on scouts?

Regarding Baden-Powell, to quote Bear Grylls “Baden-Powell may have taken the first step in creating Scouting, but the journey continues today without him. We know where we came from but we are not going back." (I added emphasis). The organization and the leadership can, must be stronger than one man. It does not mean tossing out all his ideas, it means keeping and strengthening the right ones. Regarding a pamphlet for family discussion - racism is a learned behavior. The racism that Blacks in this country have been experiencing is not a new problem, and if we want to be part of the solution to end racism, of all types, than the MB is not a bad idea (be it a stand alone badge or part of American Culture). Expose the youth to understanding the dangers and inherent inequity of racism, so that they can recognize it and act. Empower them with the knowledge not to perpetuate. Just like the CitNation MB makes the scouts learn about the Bill of Rights, this gives them the tools to understand why people protest when the constitution is failing them. After all, is not the mission of BSA: " to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

I do not agree that merit badges are useless, so I can see why I did not follow your logic earlier.

I am not tracking your logic - BSA also put out a statement and then a decision to take positive action to educate Scouts on racism and discrimination. The UK put a statement out and that is more proactive? This is an opportunity to educate scouts on racism and discrimination, to have a difficult conversation about this subject, and hopefully develop young men adn women who can add to the conversation and elimination of this scourge. Statements alone are no enough. This is a chance for scouts to be educated and informed, and become the future leaders of this nation this program is designed for.

What Alternative would you propose?

If there is a merit. Badge which discusses racism, discrimination, and how it is able to perpetuate, and how to see it and react, why is that a bad thing?How does that not help? Racism is learned, not an innate belief.

I think we are both trying to say the same thing. I agree with everything you say and was not trying to imply otherwise.

I do not see the restrictions due to COVID on businesses and families and the seemingly disconnection with the protest as related. Governors are caught in an interesting dilemma- Public health, economic development, and protest due to civil injustice. All three are pulling at each other and none are necessarily supportive of the other. from a scouting perspective - look at the conversation we can have as part of Cit Nation, Cit Community, and Public health. How restrictions and wearing masks are helping the greater community. And how protestors are so upset, they are willing to take risks to themselves to protest inequality based on race. Interesting times.

This works for K-12, where all the students are from one area, and the COVID trend is declining. They are also taking precautions like reduced class sizes, alternating days, and other cautions. Schools are not opening in the more impacted areas. all this is accomplished through understanding the health of the students and teachers, and deliberate risk mitigation efforts. In short, this is not a viable model. Unless BSA were to somehow limit Philmont participation to those areas where there was declining or no COVID growth, account for safe travel (?) - maybe only within xx miles driving range.....A better model is seeing how colleges fair when they start back up in person in the fall.

For government purposes, I get why there ins concern with zoom and China, but for scouts? Do we really understand how the internet works and cloud storage?

what are the safety concerns you have? If you set it up with a waiting room, you cannot be zoom bombed. Is it because the servers are/were in China? I think that has been changed recently.

What makes Scouts a successful program is having standards and holding the adult leaders and the scouts to them. If the standards are dropped, then what the ranks mean drops. This is the same reason that SMs or MB counselors are not to pick and choose the requirements they want to teach. Either it means something, or it does not. Some of these changes are OK and make some sense, but some are just ludicrous.

The hand shake survived the 1918 Spanish Flu, so why would it not survive this? It may take time, but..

Double secret conditional charter, obviously

If units do not adapt and remain connected to their scouts, then yes, this will happen. Sure, scouting is about being outside. But it does not stop because cannot get outside. This to shall pass and the scouts will be able to go back to camping and backpacking. When - who knows. But we will. And I am willing to bet that the units that are able to adapt and remain connected with their scouts at this time will see the scouts return. At a minimum, virtual meetings provide an opportunity for some scouts (and their parents) to do and learn something. A great way to weather this storm is to help provide structure for the scouts - and advancement and merit badges are great ways to help parents who need help. Its not perfect, but if BSA does not learn to work through and thrive in this current crisis, then it will die. And it is not national or the councils that will make this happen. It will be the local pack or troop leadership who take their one hours a week (ha) and think creative. It will be the "front line" leaderships who share resources, tips, and best practices, that make this occur. What National needs to be doing is removing barriers and pushing capability down to the local level. Not charging $5 for whatever fees for council led virtual merit badge sessions, but virtual sessions where they SEE their friends in the troop/pack.

We have been using Zoom - with the a fore mentioned limitations. MS teams also works, but not everyone has it. Our schools provide middle and high students with Chrome Books and come with google hangout/meet. So may use use. We are just starting and prefer Zoom in that you can share your screen as well as have an ongoing chat at the same time. 40 minutes also makes us be efficient.

Totally concur - it is OK to have partials. Because when the social distancing ends, and it will, the scouts will be able to get out and complete the requirements they need to accomplish physically or in person. Get the mundane or "talking"portions of advancement or merit badges done now. We all have the time. Lets absolutely not do that when we can all meet physically and get out and hike/camp/climb/swim/etc. Well, maybe a short safety refresher..... Perfect time to work on parts of CitNation, CitWorld. Not to develop ways around them, but work on the parts of MB, like family life, that can be accomplished now, and the rest will be done in due time.

looking to do the same in my area - finish up some Merit Badges that can be accomplished over a virtual environment, and then look at those that can be partially accomplished virtually. I a thinking small groups (3-5) to keep them engaged, not just listening. I am looking at platforms like Zoom (others are MS Teams, Chrome Meeting maker, and others) where you can host multiple people at once, share your desktop to show illustrations, slides, etc. Probably in the evening, as in our district, the kids still have school work they are working on at home.