Buggie

Given that the topic was original to 2003 and people were saying if you order from national supply expect extremely long wait periods, my first thought was that we'd get an update that the special order was finally received. 

The problem with communication is that there is no one way that works for everyone.  People get communication overload. Not everyone pays attention to email, to texts, to reminds, to applications, to smoke signals. Shoot, I can say something to my wife here in the room, and she doesn't hear me. (and she tells me vice versa)  

So the only way is to try a mix of several different ways. Even then don't expect 100% reception. 

The big statement from most folks, is that people should take the responsibility to pay attention when the information comes from "X" source.  I totally agree. But it never works.

If you have some form of communication that you need 100% certainty that the person you want to hear it gets it, a phone call and talking to the person directly is about the only way that will work. And yes, even that won't work for everyone. "you called?  when was that?  you talked to me? Really?"

I've been involved in two troops. 

First troop: They had everything you'd need, except personal gear. And even then you could ask around and find someone willing to loan you something. They also picked up several troop's worth of gear when those troops folded. They also did alternative forms of "tents" for the right situations. The adults at summer camp all sleep under ridge line tarp(s). Usually the tarps were roped together to form one long adult area with our cots and totes underneath. I really love their scout setups. They had a donated carport with sides they used either as a long term dining fly or a common sleeping shelter. The sides would be staked out for maximum ventilation and brought in when we had a strong enough rain threat. Or not used at all when in dining fly mode. They also used a quonset hut structure (rebar for stakes, PVC electrical conduit for the ribs fitted over grounded rebar, tarp(s), and guylines) that they configured based on the weather. They could string several in a row to make the hut various sizes or separate huts for patrols. Worked great for long term summer camping and you could set up a good number of scouts into the same area. For extreme rain conditions, we'd packed our gear back into our totes to keep them dry in case of shelter failure. In Oklahoma, everything dries quickly in the summer if something did get wet. 

Second troop: They had all their gear in a trailer and it was stolen. I don't know if they had a storage hut at the time, but the trailer was fully loaded when it was stolen. The public support was great and they picked up a donated trailer and with a lot of donations, support, and fund raisers, they've managed to gear back up to where they have enough tents and other gear for the troop. Sadly, I've not been on a weekend camp out with them yet, so I've not seen their entire setup. I've only been on a summer camp week with them with a platform tent site. Thankfully my work is shifting where I will be doing weekend camp outs with them starting in August. 

I do have to laugh though. I'm more of a do with less type of camper. The other two regular adults seem to be do with more types. My two true luxuries are a Sansbug and a strong chair with built in fold-able side table. Oh, and I did have a hammock, but it the inner rope broke last time I was using it. That was a way to stop a nap, I tell ya. 

The "Lots of lost stuff" made me laugh.  The SM was telling yet another scout that they needed to take better care of where their neckers were and not lose them or leave them somewhere. That they shouldn't be leaving things behind etc.  Right after that several of the scouters reminded him that he was just complaining about how he left his wood badge beads up where we had our adult meal last night. With a smile, he told us to be quiet.  lol  

Yup.  For those interested, Kerr Scout Ranch at Slippery Falls. Or as those who hate that the name changed a few years ago, they still call it, "Slip or Slippery Falls".  I find calling it by the older name is easier for everyone to recognize. And I hate long names. 

You can remember when phones were attached to the wall.  And you can remember albums.  Yah, you're ancient. (like me )

@desertrat77 

If you ever plan to motor west 
Travel my way, take the highway that is best
Get your kicks on Route sixty six 

Well, maybe not. Depends on how you want to travel. But you could see picturesque Amarillo!  No?  

So happy to hear that you're able to go. Might want to be sure your bandannas can be used as ash filters. And if you see a bear, it could be Smokey... 

(has a nightmare of animatronic BP chasing him saying, "and now for you scoutmasters....")

41 minutes ago, David CO said:

My character and camping skills were already pretty well formed before I became a scoutmaster (at age 25).

Mine where too!  They weren't any good, but they were pretty well formed...

Many welcomes.  Please check your high expectations at the front desk.  LOL  

But seriously. This is a great place to get pointed in good directions, find support, and get inspired. 

If you have any great camp cooking recipes, we have a thread for that. 

In short, crossing over early isn't illegal nor a problem in itself. However sometimes it can create issues in regards to separation of friends etc. It all depends on how the Scout Troop sets up the patrols and the ego of the scout and the scout's parent. Then again, staying in the AoL program when you've completed everything could cause a scout to loose interest. 

I've seen an AoL cross over early, about nine months before the rest of his unit. He had an enthusiastic parent who made sure all his requirements were met and he had his AoL way ahead of everyone else in his unit. He did okay, was absorbed into a patrol. The rest of the AoL unit crossed over and most of them chose the same troop since he went there and they were all friends. However the new boys formed a new patrol so they were separated. While they still had their common experience in cub scouts, being in different patrols separated them in many different ways. Also a feeling of superiority on the count of that one boy. All in all, it had a lot of issues. I can't say all of those issues were the result of ego etc, as some were caused by the super enthusiastic parent. 

Yah, I love it when rules get overly complicated in their attempt to explain the simple concept, impractical ways to implement something simple, or definitively undefined. *sigh* Leads to all sorts of trouble of under- and over-enforcement. I"m afraid we're going to see a lot of that in the next few years before they get a better handle on it.  It won't go away, but some things will get worked out better. 

A great example of a good use of a cellophone... 

Last year a SM took a picture a la cellophone of an adult copperhead inside the shower house to send to the camp director. Instant message - "Shower house <location>. Right now. Thought you might be interested." SM and a few other adults were making sure the shower house was empty of anyone using it. (Thankfully it was during the day when all scouts were busy elsewhere so it was clear.)

Said camp director with ranger appeared in a few minutes, roaring (as much as a truck should roar on the summer camp road), johnny on the spot!  Snake disappeared through a hole in a screen to the maintenance area between all the showers and bathrooms. Eventually he was captured. Hole was marked to be fixed. 

Do let us know how it plays out. I think I speak for everyone that we love to see how things work out, especially if they get resolved to your satisfaction. All of us are very motivated in supporting the kids to be within scouts. 

23 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

You know, after my boys went out on a hot day,  I can see the use of a class B. 

I fell in love with tech shirts a few years back. (and my troop moved to them for their class B.) And I love having the long sleeve tech shirts for sun protection and for an added layer in cold weather. I think uniforms are a great thing, but sometimes I feel folks are too hung up on them. I certainly don't endorse where there's a new uniform pieces you have to purchase every time you move up a year through the programs. It's bad enough for the kids who go through those growth spurts. The talk in the other (or is it this?) thread about new neckerchiefs as the cub scouts move up makes my eyes roll. 

56 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Nothing logical it, except for holed-up Madison Avenue ad men! It does not follow that scratching "boys" makes girls feel welcome.

I get why people feel that the magazine name change shouldn't have happened. Still I wonder, would you feel comfortable reading a magazine for the program if it was titled, "Girls Life"?  

For years as a parent I kept asking what the guidance for BORs was. I never received a good answer. More of a "follow along and you'll get it". I hated that answer because different people did different things and what I saw didn't really make sense to me. No one ever told me that there was training out there for what to do in a BOR nor did it appear they new themselves. They followed along with what they saw done before them. As a parent I didn't know I could even participate in any training. 

When I switched over to a volunteer role I took all the training for SM, CO, and the Committee Member and of course, read the guide to advancement you posted. I discovered from that training that people really have no idea what a BOR is supposed to do. I plan to talk with some folks about that when I can get a nice one on one, to see if I can nudge it towards what the program states and not a retest or uniform inspection etc. 

In favor, with some concerns about how it all will work out but no reservations about it. I was a Webelos Scout and Boy Scout from the late 70's.  And yes, I wore the long socks with garters/tassels, but I wore a garrison cap. I did not stick with the program. 

related/unrelated question. Is there a date for a new handbook for 11-18 scouts to arrive? (not sure how to state that without saying boy scouts and being clear enough that I"m not talking about the various cub scout programs, LOL)

I'm fairly new as a scouter, having transitioned from being a parent who volunteered when there was a need to be met. A change of job expectations of being available 24x7 regardless allowed that to happen. My kids are still below 18, but one's turning that magic age this year. I'm old enough that most men my age are within the "grandpa-hood" phase of their life, so I'm more mellow and experienced in some things. And I'm quite capable of not being mellow and certainly I have a lot of things left to learn. 

Yet I do have some breaking points. 

• If I find I can't assist in some way then I'll bow out. Corollary to that is if I'm more of a hindrance than a help, it's time for me to go 
• If the troop I'm with turns exceptionally sour or goes into an adult led type of direction that I can't some how turn back to scout lead? I'll find a different troop. 

Be a leader, not a superior.

- Toyotomi Hideyoshi

Like @qwazse mentioned, I carry a brief case most places because it is part of my job 24x7. If it isn't on my person, it's in my trunk hidden away from sight. 

I carry basic office supplies, wet wipes, basic meds, cords, pocket knife, and magnifying glass. (because the print keeps getting smaller) Also in my trunk are some work gloves, first aid kit (changed out every so often), mug, a collapsible stool, tarp, cordage, stakes, multi-tool, blanket, emergency rain poncho, hat, Frisbee (gives scouts something to do), and a comfy folding chair. 

The thing I use most out of my trunk is my chair. 

Thank you!  I'm here all week.  Remember to tip your wait staff. 

2 hours ago, Saltface said:

...our DE died months ago.

He's DEad. 

Completely agree on all your points @cgail. WB isn't scout craft and definitely IOLS is shorter now than it used to be. There's more to be taught than can be fit in the time allotted, even if you can stop a scouter from straying off topic. However I think they might be expecting us to pick it up either ourselves or with our troop. However in some troops, there's not a whole lot of experience going on. Some troops have it and apply it with different programs for the scouts to pick and choose what interests them (climbing, canoeing, backpacking, hiking etc). Other troops are a bit lean on the experience and get by with just camping. 

2 hours ago, scotteg83 said:

Maybe I've been mislead, but I thought you had to be "trained" in your position before attending WoodBadge.  Which for a SM or ASM, to be considered "Trained", you must have IOLS?

yah, I completed IOLS recently and there were a number of folks in there who had been in WB already. They were all from the cub scout side of the fence and crossing over as it were. I can't speak to their abilities as none of them were in my patrol so I didn't get a chance to know them all that well. I can say that they didn't have the basic scout craft down when it came time to demonstrate their knowledge.