Buggie

22 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

When you have a Scout who has been gung ho about Scouts and is advancing along at a good pace and they suddenly stop showing up - most of the time it means something has happened at the unit level to make the Scout just decide to stop going.

There's a lot said when things are quiet.  Sometimes you have to listen harder to what is being said in the silence. 

Whatever you teach, I recommend adding an element of "fun" to it. Scouts, especially at that age, respond well making games out of it. And they can be dorky games too that are designed to make people laugh. Making a game out of some things isn't easy though and requires imagination. 

First, teach the skill.  Make it simple and focused.  Too much talk makes a scout lose interest.  But cover it enough that you get a basic point across.  I'm going to use the example of a square knot since that's pretty common to train new scouts in. Once you've gotten the scouts to do it a few times, the fun begins. 

Form two lines. First the trainer(s) stand at the front of the line.  Trainer shows the first scout in the line how to tie the knot. First scout then attempts to tie the knot.  When they get it, they grab a ball (dollar store inflatable beach balls work great) and then attempt to make a basket.  Or throw an object into a hoop. Something physical that you can say, score 2 or 3 points if they make it. Shouldn't be super easy to do, nor super difficult. You can even add a run to point A and do it. Score the points.  Scout returns and teaches next scout in line how to tie the knot with trainer at a distance.  They can call in a "life line" if they need it and I would recommend adding something that makes it not something you want to do straight away. Like a one point deduction. Second scout goes running off all crazy like. Repeat.  

The points get a bet of the EDGE in there, learn the process.  You can have them go through it once or twice, with or without trainers, etc. You'll need the adult to judge the "knot" as good. 

Game ends at either the first line done (recommended for when the boys get it and are doing speed runs) or all the scouts have completed their turn(s) and score the points. 

"Ideals are like stars; you will not succeed in touching them with your hands. But like the seafaring man on the desert of waters, you choose them as your guides, and following them will reach your destiny." -- Carl Schurz

I've seen similar arguments over time in regards to what was tradition now being seen as hazing.

For example, when I was at Texas A&M I learned how they made a lot of the traditions illegal for various reasons. Some had been made illegal within the corps years before I arrived and some after. All for good reasons at the time, but the resistance to those changes was incredible and can still cause some folks to go red face and bug-eye'd with foam flecks.

Two examples. 

To say a cadet was motivated and/or doing great you used the term, "Red A^^".  The history of that phrase dated back where upper class men would routinely whip a freshman's behind with paddles or wire or whatever. It was so bad that they had regular inspections where the freshmen had to stick their bare behinds outside their quarters and a doctor would make inspections looking for excessive damage. Treating some cases on the spot before they got worse and requiring a waiting period so a cadet could heal. At times putting the cadet in the infirmary. EVEN with that inspection going on and the results showing excessive abuse, it was still considered to be okay to whip people by all levels of the cadet corp, including the officers of the military branches there and university until finally something happened to change that. But it took a lot of effort to stop that tradition because people couldn't see the harm in it even if it did require a doctor to routinely inspect for excessive damage.  

Sometimes it takes single isolated event to change things. It happened once when a freshman arrived on campus after driving for almost all day to get to school. The next morning two sophomores woke this freshman up early because he had arrived "late" to school. They proceeded to push this cadet through intense physical activity which ended an hour later with his death from exhaustion. All that year and the next, it was a major problem for some folks who thought this wasn't that big of a deal. They belittled the freshman with comments about weakness etc. They trivialize the situation. All sorts of attempts were made to get around it, but the rule stuck with serious repercussions. 

Yes, the above cases are extreme and in our views now, I'm sure we can all hold it as perfectly reasonable that some things had to change. But back when they happened they were not extreme. Time and attitudes have changed. 

Society changes over time. If we look back, we can truthfully state that things that our grandparent's believed, things that our parent's believed, and things that we were taught as children in a lot of cases don't hold true today because society has changed. What was considered to be perfectly reasonable at one time now makes us shudder. Sometimes we overreach in our efforts to curb excessive behavior. And sometimes we enable it for far too long just for the sake of tradition or because we don't see the harm in it ourselves. It should never be an excuse that we don't see the harm in what we consider as something as inconsequential or mild in our view, and refuse to see that on the other side there might be a really good reason not to do it. 

I'm sure none of us want to make a scout feel less about themselves. 

23 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Texting is a challenge, we just start a new text string and add another leader.  Also we have scouts ask questions on the instagram feed, but that is public and we have multiple admins, so not a huge difference from asking something at a meeting

Yah, I was thinking along those lines as well.  Probably the best thing I can come up with is some sort of "group" board that retains the conversation record with a very small group. For example, the "Group Me" application could be used, setting up a new group with each scout seeking X merit badge.  I'm sure there are other applications, but that's the one I'm most familiar with. Anyway, you can create a group of just the MBC, the Scout(s), the "buddy", and an adult representative. Whoever is applicable. That way the conversation remains through out the life of the group, even if you have to change some of the participants.

The major sticking point on this is accessibility for those involved. My son did not have a cellophone until he turned 17. In fact, my wife didn't have one until that time because we have to prioritize our expenses. I only had a simple phone issued by my company. A family may not have the capability to do afford the tech. Which I realize seems impossible in today's world. The other item could be that the person just doesn't want to go into the new tech. I know a scouter who has a simple bar phone and refuses to upgrade from that. He only wants it on hand if he needs to contact someone or be contacted. 

The the other issue I can see is retention. The legal-mindful adult in me wants to go overboard and CYA everything, retaining conversations until enough time has past. But in reality, as long as you have another adult monitoring the board as well, then you're okay. Problem is having another adult actually monitoring it. We adults don't care to spend time on things that don't pertain to us directly, as a monitor is apt to feel. I predict we'll have official committee member position of "Conversation Monitor" in the future! We could give them the "BIG BROTHER" committee member patch. I only partially jest. 

Well, the nice thing is that as a community and comrades, we tackle whatever posts come up and handle them respectfully all around as much as we can, with a few oops now and then.  And we don't resort to undermining tactics or name calling.  No matter what the rest of you disgraceful low-life no-nothings think.   

Can one take IOLS before completing the application process and being registered with a unit? I'm asking because I'm not sure what requirements there are for that.

Do I need to make an account on the BSA site to sign up for it or do I need to work through the unit to do it. And yah, I probably could ask the SM or CC or write an email to the IOLS person, but I'm on the forum right now and I might forget in a few minutes. LOL

In my state, tornadoes are rather common. So locals at scout camp know the signs etc. (watches a cow go flying by) "Just a minor zephor." (house with a little girl, dog, and a witch?) "Let's bunker up. Dang, too late. There's the lollipop guild. "

Thankfully tornado shelters were installed near every camp site at the main scout camp for the area. However after a few years we made a few comments. 

1) Please clean out the shelters at the start of every year and make sure they aren't flooded or become animal habitats. 

2) Did you know that you can't fit everyone into the shelters unless you play sardines? 

3) At summer camp, there are scouts who forget about "cleanliness".  Can we get some air scrubbers in these shelters?

I took it earlier this year (Feb/Mar). In fact, I took it a few times.  Annoying.  Because the tornado section #8 was bugged. You had to click on the safe areas in a house. Yet you weren't allowed to click on the last safe area. It wouldn't let you. Didn't matter what order you went in, the last click never would register. So I took it the first time, went past that bugged section after giving up and found the course wasn't marked complete.  No problem.  A week later? Started from the beginning and got to section #8 again and same problem. It took several weeks of starting from the beginning only to find Section #8 was bugged still, before it was finally fixed. The last time I tried the program was modified to recognize where I had left off and started me at #8. Completed! 

So I hope the module is the same version as the one I took in Feb/Mar.  I really don't want to take it yet again...  

16 hours ago, fred johnson said:

It's the trouble with troop shopping.  One visit and/or one camp-out is just a throw of the dice.  Ya really need to be with a unit for multiple events / activities over a period of time to form a fair judgement.  My favorite is when a parent says "we joined because we really liked the SPL".  Well, ya know SPLs are temporary and it's just a roll of the dice if the troop has a good SPL at any one moment.

True Dat!  You need to take it out for a spin and do more than kick the tires. See comment below next paragraph. 

Troops can certainly change over time. It all depends on the scouters involved and what they are willing to do to go with the spirit of BSA. I know of a troop in my area that at the time of my son's crossing over, was bent towards agriculture and mechanics. I don't know anymore than that as it wasn't what my son wanted so we didn't return, but I was happy that for scouts who were into that sort of thing, that this could be a great troop for them. Fast forward two scout generations (about seven years) and they are a completely different troop from what I heard recently. Also another troop I knew was "boy lead" in word only. I can't tell you how often I heard that phrase from the SM on that one. (*see below) In reality it was "lord of the flies" while the SM played tour guide and lecture God. Come back a number of years later and there was a change in SMs and the scouts are now doing PLCs and are truly moving towards the boy lead principle. 

Because things change with the scout and with the troops over time, I tell potential scout parents that their kid's needs need to be looked after. Do not be afraid to find a place that better fits their kid if it comes to that. Scouts can make friends really quickly. They have a lot in common with each other. It isn't easy and sure, you can lose connections with people you share a common history with, but the makeup of a troop changes every year. Your friends that came in with you move on. New scouts join up. And someone you were tight with one year might not be someone you hang with the next. It happens naturally if you stay with a troop, so it can happen if you move to a different troop. 

16 hours ago, fred johnson said:

Yet we don't promote pack shopping.  

Yah, that's always a bit strange too. Typically parents find a pack through word of mouth, association with an organization, or from an information desk at the school's parent night. Until parents learn more about scouting, they don't realize how different units can be. And because kids at that age bond strongly with other kids, as long as they are having fun then parents don't see the need to shop. By the end of Webelos, they've learned some and have been taught by the scout leaders that different troops have different offerings. 

Shoot, I was a parent for years until I finally was able to join up as an ASM. It was only then that I truly got to know about what scouting was supposed to be like outside of what I saw in my kid's troop. And it was certainly an eye opening experience. 

Never trust that common sense is all that common. I am sure I have been an excellent example at times. 

Last year when my son was 16 at summer camp, he tried to see if he could go in and look at some shirts at the trading post. He is 6'5" and 250-ish lbs. He's lean and athletic looking. Has a good beard too. Often he is mistaken for a college student or recent graduate. 

We had just completed changing some of his merit badge classes and came out of the program office. Next to that was the trading post and it was adults only time. He looked at me and winked, "I'm going to see if they notice."  I went in after a few beats and watched. He went down the center aisle, so far so good. He turns to the right, OH! There's his SM facing the other way! He turns to the left, OH! There's his ASM looking at stuff. He's stuck! And then from the back door that leads to the program office comes the trading post manager. The very one who just changed his schedule.  BUSTED

Was a good laugh for all of us.

sings 
Because you know I'm all about that bass,
'Bout that bass, no treble
I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble
I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble
I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass

Sorry, my mind has been corrupted. 

Two troops I know of end with the above benediction, all within a circle. 

One troop has everyone in the circle; scouts, scouters, and everyone else that might be in the room. They are holding hands and pass the squeeze to go around the circle. Newbies are instructed before the proceedings about the squeeze. 

Another troop has their scouts do the benediction circled up in the dark with scouts only, adults staring into the darkness wherever they may be in the room. At the end the scouter in charge of the adult side, typically the SM, says "Goodnight scouts". They respond with a "Goodnight (sir or m'am)" and the lights come back on.  

Okay, favorite memory.  Camp Constantin summer camp around 78  First scout camp for me. Across the lake are these wonderful looking cliffs. It's the OA tap out ceremony and we're lined up in one long line along the shore. Across from us, the sun has set and there were bonfires lit at several points on tops of the cliff. By this time, the fires are mostly embers. And as we stand there in silence, I'm guessing a bulldozer or something pushes the embers over the side of the cliff, creating an absolutely beautiful fire waterfall. It was incredibly magical. 

Yah, I don't know the particulars of expenses that any unit faces. Just the bare bones stuff one sees as a parent like what you mentioned. I know they exist, but I don't know the particulars... yet. I'm too new of an ASM to be aware of anything in detail.

One of the things as a parent that is very frustrating is when an activity requires fees that parent's can't afford. I've no problem with fees, as one can't run an organization without them, but when they prohibit any kid from joining in I feel like it cheats everyone out of an experience. Part of the fun of scouting is diversity. You can meet and become friends with people from all over the community and the nation. And when a barrier is erected, even unintentionally, that diversity suffers. Someone can't join in and that someone is part of the collective that is scouting. 

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but life can sure stink at times. 

I've been interested in seeing if my daughter (age 8) could join a pack somewhere, but there's nothing on the council site lookup for troops in the area that shows a girl pack anywhere. We looked into GSA in our area, but we were told that the yearly dues were around $100 something.  Which was way too steep for us. I don't know if it was for that one GSA group or if it was for all of them in the area/state (Oklahoma). But it sort of rained on our enthusiasm. We encounter way too many groups (baseball, softball, band, etc) who want to charge hundreds of dollars for a kid to participate. It really leaves us out of the picture most times. 

I was frequently entertained as it were, by the things my son tried to pack or not pack in his early days.

"Why are you packing a jacket?"
"I might get cold."
"It's summer camp. The lows at worse next week is going to be around 80 with the highs in the 100s. And you should take rain gear just in case."
"So no jacket then?"

It took him YEARS to finally start remembering to pack sunscreen.  Especially when other scouts got tired of sharing. 

These days, he's got it. At worse I'll ask if he has a hat. And if I know he's going to be in direct sunlight a lot, I'll ask him about sunscreen. Just to humor myself. 

My son (age 13 at the time) wanted to go off on a January camping trip without a coat. He only had a hoodie.  "It's warm!" he told me.  No, you're taking a coat.  A scouter told me I should have let him learned. However I'd rather that lesson not be life threatening. 

He did appreciate having a coat when the sun went down. 

<self removed>

Thanks for the replies. 

Yah, I'm still watching and learning. With the troop I've recently joined, I've only been with them a few months so I'm looking for things and knowing that I've not been there long enough to see much of anything. Waiting on background check etc before I let them pull me into anything further (they are eager too), because I'm very process oriented for the sake of my sanity. I'm fine with dealing with changing climates as I work in that, but my personal mindset has processes and checklists as a way to keep things organize and to look before I leap. 

Most of my major concerns deal with a previous troop I'm familiar with as a scout parent so I'm using my experience there along with the training/experience now to percolate thoughts. It's night and day comparatively with how those two troops operate. The more I learn, the more I face-palm from what I've seen before. I'm extremely encouraged about what I've seen so far with the troop I'm with. 

@Eagledad   As a parent I'm all on board with the concept of practicing "how". Our son has some difficulties that require a little extra help (vague enough? good) and one of the techniques that works for us is some coaching about how to work with situations he encounters and shows he needs some help with. It's the same as working with cub scouts and teaching them how to approach people to sell the ol' blue and gold. We worked with our son with every fund raiser he had to do (scouts, school, church) up until he was confident able to approach us and say, "Hey how does this sound?" before he ran off and did it. The only thing we "parental-recording" do now is to remind him to be courteous after the pitch whether a sale is made or not. 

p.s. We're proud to say that we never took our son's (or daughter's) sale sheet and sold for them. 

For this scout in Utah, I am sure we're not privy (nor will we be) to the exact details of what is going on. A lawyer's approach is always to frame the debate in your client's favor. So both sides will make their statements. The main intent of the parents here was to get their son's project and needs met after hitting a rejection, which the BSA is now fully addressing with the care of walking through a minefield. 

Makes me wonder if the process was fully followed or if the project was started before being fully approved. 

Okay.  I'm new.  It's a terrible disease that fades away over time. As I wait on the background check to complete (how many weeks does it take? The fostering parent background check took less time than this), I think of things, contemplate them, chew them around, review them, write them down to review much later once I've had the time to figure out what the troop does during the course of the year, and see how valid it is to bring up. 

One of the things that keeps popping up for me is from my son's experience in his troop. (I signed up for a different troop after he aged out and time finally permitted me to volunteer.) One of the issues they had at times was not identifying scouts who got stuck in an idle mode because they weren't sure what to do next, or who were nervous about some aspect and were avoiding it (like the swim check). I was thinking a good way would be for the PLs to meet with their patrol members on a periodic basis either singularly or by two's and ask questions to find out if the scouts want certain types of camping experiences, or if they were interested in a merit badge that could be of interest of others, or whatever have you.  That could highlight areas that the PLC could explore for their unit. And it could also provide some specific niche targeting where applicable to help a scout get started on an interest they weren't sure about how to proceed on.

I think identifying these things through a really small group will allow scouts who can be drowned out at times the chance to be heard more. Larger groups can certainly provide a lot of input once they start feeding on suggestions. 

What are some of the processes that have worked for your troops in identifying things that the scouts wanted to do either as a troop, patrol, or smaller scout group? 

And yes, my newness probably doesn't know if such a thing already exists in some sort of guidelines that I've not heard about yet. But from seeing my son's troop in action over the years, they may not know of it either. 

Hello. Long time scout parent and now I'm making the leap to ASM for a troop that's pretty eager to have me join. One of the items they brought up was identifying any merit badges I could become a merit badge counselor for. 

Outside of merit badges that I am qualified to be a counselor for, how does one go about training to be a counselor for a badge you have an interest in being a counselor for, but you don't have a lot of experience in. For example Hiking seems to require knowledge of various good hiking trails for the hiking outings to complete etc.