Buggie

I find camp a great place to do some service, do some training, and generally take some time to work on my sitting skills or how to talk to other adults skills. 

As far as adult/youth ratio? Yah, it depends (I wonder who said that before? Oh, yah, everyone,) I think a 10 scouts to 1 adult being a good norm, with a minimum of 2 required. One of the things that it depends on is how much of a need there is to be with the scouts. Typically you don't need to do anything as the scouts will take care of themselves. Maybe the first day to show the new scouts where to go if an older scout isn't available. 

Not being the SM or CC, it is very difficult to do the other thing which it sounds you need done. Keeping the well meaning adults away from the scouts and letting them do their thing. But yes, try to engage the adults in activity away from the scouts. 

We use "group me" for troop communication, with one for everyone and another for PLC. MB is a different thing altogether. I'm not sure what is the best thing to use outside of email. 

With the recent conversations about BSA and Eagle rank, I as afraid this topic might have been something else.  

Good luck on getting out the stain! And definitely no heat on that uniform until you can get it dry. 

He's so happy.

Honey! We're having stake tonight!

That's a really rough situation you've described. You're caught between two sides. As with most things in life, there's not going to be a 100% no issues answer. But to simplify things, you'll need to stick with the number that is officially registered. (why they didn't go with the more traditional number... different topic. focus focus) 

However I have an idea that might help.  If you can incorporate the "5" as a different color than the "36" so that you can still acknowledge it and still state the official unit number. Or do something else that makes the "5" stand out in some way. A flaming "5"?   *shrugs* 

And good job on the anonymity keeping. That's tough to do.  However I've traced who you are and now.... MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!  (j/k)

4 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I am so so sorry I brought this up. I think I threw up in my mouth a little.

Hey, don't get your neckers in a twist. 

One word for TT.  

Loincloth

And if you're a little thick around the waist, some paracord and sheet bend knot. You can "thong" me later for the images. 

15 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

toxic masculinity

I know what the term means etc, but I can't help but to think of it in a different way. 

That funk cloud that slams into you when you encounter some boys. 

We had a lock in once and I had been doing the hourly room check along with another ASM, looking in to make sure all was well in the rooms. Now I don't have a sense of smell (hooray for anosmia!) and for one check we switched it up to checking different rooms. The other ASM came back after a while and proclaimed he nearly died from the smell when he opened the door where the boys were. And in typical fashion, all the men then had to go and smell it for themselves. 

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

On the positive side, it is a tremendous privilege helping that scout who's been stuck at 2nd class for 3+ years master those 100 yards.

Oh, that happened with my kid. He sat at 2nd class because he didn't like lake water that he couldn't see anything in. One year I remember talking to him about the necessity and encouraging him before summer camp, telling his troop adults about his issues and that he needed encouragement etc. So he gets home from camp and I asked if he took the swim test. "No, I didn't feel like swimming that week so I didn't."  (migraine achieved) 

https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/aquatics/forms/

Paddlecraft section.

They both reside in the same document mentioned in the post just above, supplied again here. 
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/Aquatics/pdf/430-501.pdf

Seems that the "river" portion requires a level of water motion/activity that doesn't exist locally. 

"River modules need flowing water with Class I to Class II features, including standing waves, a downstream V, a large eddy, and a hazard to be portaged."

So I'm sure there's someplace in another council or region. 

Some modest background before I get into the meat of my questions. 

My only experience with a canoe was back in summer camp in 1978's time frame. My buddy at the time and I didn't have a badge class at the time and he wanted to try out the canoes, so we put our swim tags on the board and joined an existing class. We got yelled at because we were sitting on the seats and not on our knees, but other than that we paddled around for awhile and enjoyed ourselves for that hour. 

I recently made the transition from volunteer parent to ASM now that I've shifted to a new department. The other two in the SM track don't have any experience with or interest in learning the Aquatics side of things, but they do have an interest in at least bringing swimming to the scouts while camping. I've got my reservations, but I'm willing to train up and push my boundaries. We do have a parent who is trained as a Red Cross Lifeguard. 

So for summer camp, especially since I am new to the ASM role, I'm taking the training listed below. I've taken what is available online already. I also have a plan to expand my training in first aid and other aspects over the next few years. 

CPR & First Aid
Safe Swim Defense
Safety Afloat
Swimming and Water Rescue
Paddlecraft Safety and Supervision

For the Paddlecraft listing, the BSA Aquatics Resources web page lists the training in two levels. Beginning and then River version. Where does one go for the second level of the Paddlecraft training? I know I'll need to practice etc, which I believe I can manage to do since we have some rental facilities in the area, but looking on my council's calendar for the past and future, there's nothing for BSA specific training that's out there. 

So, where does one go for the next level of training in paddle craft in BSA land? 

Any other insights or pitfalls I need to be aware of?

Yes, as with most drama, I do my best to keep my mouth shut and not to participate. First off, anyone I would tell in BSA land around here would know all the players since everyone knows everyone else in this district. It would only come back to harm someone. Secondly? Not helpful.

Focus on the positives where ever possible. And if you do have something constructive to say, take it privately to the person. 

That's not to say that it will stop the drama nor am I immune to it. 

But I'm pretty sure my drama stories are similar to other people's stories. 

And as far as Grizzly Adams & Mad Jack, Ben & Number Seven go.... Old TV shows were amazing at times with their basic setup. For example, a trucker with a monkey outsmarting a local sheriff all the time. The other day I was driving my son and daughter somewhere and the conversation somehow ended up on an old Disney show (Kim Possible). At first my kids were amused that I could sing the first few lines of the theme song. Then the amusement faded to something else as I continued to sing it all the way through. 

5 hours ago, Longhaired_Mac said:

I might not have had a grizzly named Ben, but I wanted to be just as at home in the woods as Adams.

That's a coincidence.I ended up a blend of an old man and a stubborn mule named Number Seven. 

I was only aware of OA elections starting with this one scout. A scout who had the respect of everyone because he respected everyone regardless, and gave them his time and attention. He was elected. He was simply awesome as a person and I'm still incredibly impressed with him. The following year, two scouts were elected and it was more of a popularity contest, but both scouts had merit, but they also were favored by the scouters. Politics were heavily involved. 

I hate troop drama. 

My son joined the following year. At the time, I didn't understand the election policies and I was perplexed how one year two were selected and then the next year only one could be selected. Before that election, all the boys in two patrols were telling him that they had organized and were going to elect him over another scout with more accolades, but not character. (He eventually got it too.) 

My son was eager. He was excited. He studied as part of the ceremony team and from what some scouters told me, he was their best of that year. Things were happening for him because he made them happen. 

In the second year something had happened. Something shifted. One of the favored scouts mentioned above was now in charge of the ceremony team. My son got dropped from notifications about changes in the schedule and then the location. After months of attempts to make the ceremony practices and emails, phone calls, texts and direct questioning; it all came to an end with one phone call. Seems they were short for a ceremony and that favored scout in charge called him up and used the words, "we're desperate, so we're calling you. You are the last person I can call." 

Now I can't tell you how incredible that moment was in my son's life and development. He wanted to be a part of it all. He wanted to please people. He ended up a lot of times following, if he wasn't on his own. And that day he stood up for his dignity and said "not anymore". He declined to participate. Had that scout not indicated that he was only calling because it was the last ditch effort and he wouldn't have otherwise, my son would have been there in a heartbeat because there was a need. 

The sad thing was he stopped all things OA for quite a while until the scout I first started this tale with contacted him. They hooked up, met, and that scout had clued in on what was going on when he observed it at one of the monthly meetings he got my son to attend. He asked questions and was disgusted at what had happened. 

Now my son is involved again, performing ceremonies with this OA person who respects him and what he brings. 

Did I mention I hate drama?

Yah, weapons.  Flaming Arrows...

LOL

The most damaging phrase in the language is “We’ve always done it this way!”
— Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
 

I can't tell you how often I use this sentiment at work. And how many things I've gotten changed for the better because of it. 

1 minute ago, SSScout said:

There are two kinds of people in the world, 

Makes me think of that computer joke. 

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. 

27 minutes ago, Saltface said:

And yes, "girls are not welcome here" is the sentiment we want to convey.

So you're willing to wear a shirt, hold a banner, etc and look a young scout in their eye and tell them they aren't welcome?  Are you telling that to a kid? 

Or...

Are you trying to tell that to the organization and express your unhappiness about the change in policies? 

Because to me, those are two separate things. 

27 minutes ago, Saltface said:

And yes, "girls are not welcome here" is the sentiment we want to convey.

So you're willing to wear a shirt, hold a banner, etc and look a young scout in their eye and tell them they aren't welcome?  Are you telling that to a kid? 

Or...

Are you trying to tell that to the organization and express your unhappiness about the change in policies? 

Because to me, those are two separate things. 

Just remember for those of you who feel like protesting. Target your protests correctly.  Making a shirt/sign/slogan/banner/post/whatever that a girl who joins scouting is going to read that basically says to her, "You are not welcome here!" is not the message you want to send. It goes against everything inclusiveness that scouting is about. 

If you want to protest the name, target your protest appropriately. 

Yup.  I was just curious. Always sad to see property let go, even if there are good valid reasons and plenty of other places to go. 

Saw in the news today that Camp Sunnen which was closed last summer, will be auctioned off.  I didn't see anything in a forum search about it from last year, so I thought I'd ask if anyone had more insight than what was posted in various blogs/news articles. 

To summarize, the camp's lake went through a restoration process to remove a lot of silt back in 2007. The article about the restoration makes a few statements about how the camp's property can never be converted to residential or industrial use because of it. Also that the camp is one of two that is in danger of one day being closed down and sold. 

Last year the council suspended activities at the camp siting safety concerns. They don't really detail the concerns in the statement, but such things don't happen without a lot of reasons. Later the council closed the camp officially.  Again, stating safety concerns with the property. 

And today there's a news report about it being auctioned off.

All of the articles site long range possibilities about this camp and another camp being closed down and sold, so it isn't a surprise. And it sounds like there is a lot of work that has to be done to bring the camp grounds up to the appropriate level for usage, more than the council felt was prudent to make given other camp opportunities in the area. Always sad to see a camp close down, but things do happen. 

I know that when a pack opens up close enough for my currently 8 yr/o daughter, I'm going to take her and see if she's interested in it. She shows signs of interest in the camping etc, so I'm hopeful. And thankfully my job has changed to where I can actually take her camping! But I also recognize one thing. She has no interest in being seen as a "boy". So the idea of being in a scouting organization that was traditionally a boys institution might not sit well with her. 

Case in point. Last year she played softball for the first time. It's time for the first game. We help her get her uniform on (first time) and she's unhappy because it is a very traditional ball uniform. Even with the pink lettering on a navy blue background, the cut/style was traditional. Her comment on seeing herself in the mirror? Abject misery. "I Look Like a BOY!" Massive tears and wailing. 

Until she got out to the game that is. Once she saw the rest of her team dressed the same, it became a non-issue. 

Though not appropriate for a motivational quote, I still like to recite this mantra in regards to how to handle troublesome issues. 

Since someone opened the pandora/tolkien box.

When in trouble,
When in doubt,
Run in circles,
Scream and shout

Found in various works of Robert A. Heinlein

I realize that this isn't the actual situation, but I can't help seeing this image.  

(Campfire has died down. Scouts are done for the day. Scout master pulls a book out of his bag.)

SM: Okay scouts.  Everyone get into their tents and I'll read you a story from the handbook.

Scouts: HOORAY!!! (scurry off into their sleeping bags)

SM: Okay... (settles their reading glasses) Section 7.0.4.4 Discontinued Merit Badges... Scouts are not allowed to begin work--

Scouts: (from tents) You've read that part already.  Skip to the good part.  

Still have and use them.  But I hate doing so because it means someone didn't rinse out something when they should have. 

43 minutes ago, David CO said:

I'm sure the university has a lot of potentially dangerous activities and classes, but they are supervised by professional coaches and teachers.

Now that would be interesting.

Announcer: "Hello and welcome to University Outdoor Draft day. Today we're going to see a lot of fine young men and women aiming for the top draft positions with the universities. And first up is Amazing U..."

Amazing U: "We select for our first round draft pick, Eagle Scout Fred Generic from Springfield!"

Announcer: "A great pick announced by Amazing U." "That's right Bob, Fred comes out of Springfield as an Eagle scout with a strong emphasis on dutch oven cooking. Certainly a great pick to support your unit around the campsite." "Right you are Tom. The only downside is that he has One corner of his Totin'Chip left. One false move and it could spell disaster."