Buggie

Regarding spiders (and other bugs), I recommend Sansbug .  Won't stop them from being in the tent, but will stop pests from disturbing your sleep as long as you don't let them in. 

They can be a pain to refold until you get the trick. And they are bulky (wider than a backpack), so not great for hiking in to a campsite. 

I realize this is not quick and very probably late. 

For me it isn't so much that toes are covered, but the heels have to be covered too. Shower shoes are worn in the showers. Aquatic shoes at the aquatics area. Other than that, snakes prefer that you don't wear things that might stop them. Exposed heels are a target that gets them achievement points and bragging rights. Especially when you're stepping off of a platform. Who knows what evil lurks under those platforms. The Shadow knows. 

Not saying that if you wear good shoes/boots covering your total foot you won't always escape injury or wildlife situations, but why take chances. 

I can tell you that my son often had many different fundraisers going on in the same month or same season. He had to pick and choose which group to support so that he didn't overwhelm/burnout his customer base. Where did he sell? Neighborhood, Church, and Family/Friends. My son found out that our Church was a goldmine for some groups he was in because he was the only kid his age who regularly attended. He even worked out quotas and stopped selling when he met them, focusing on the next group instead. 

So yes, some years he was the top seller for scouts. Other years, he only hit those who had stated they wanted popcorn or sausage from him when he sold. Same with band and baseball etc. He even split where he went based upon those quotas, selling X to this group and Y to that group. 

It isn't that he didn't want to support Scouting or whatever in his fundraising efforts. He couldn't do it all. He realized that himself early on and felt guilty about hitting folks up all the time. He even saw what happened if he over sold to his base. 

My point? It isn't always a great idea to award that effort because you don't know what all that scout is doing in their lives. And in some cases, Scout A may have a better market base than Scout B not because they sell better, but because they have a secret gold mines or live in a neighborhood that supports them more. 

And to contradict myself, it can be worth while to have some sort of award and recognition. Just don't change it suddenly. We saw that happened where one year the kid who was the #1 got all sorts of special awards/recognition which motivated another to do the same next year earn the same achievement and got nothing. You can bet that the kid who experienced that wasn't so keen on doing anything. 

AWESOME! Tis the way it should be. Scouts having fun and being scouty. 

And yes, ever vigilance is needed for the road ahead. While there shouldn't be issues as most people aren't into doing bad things, there are those who don't think the things they do are bad and need a course correction. And of course, those that really do have an axe to grind in the most inappropriate manner. 

Back at Texas A&M when women were first allowed in the band (fall of 85) (I wasn't around for the time when women were first allowed in the Corps of Cadets or the University, both also full of contention), there was a senior who had to be spoken with on several occasions until he got hauled off to stand in front of the powers that be for further education. This senior would do the things that seniors did, standard type of harassment of the freshmen. He'd call out for "survey, survey" and then ask the fish a question. Normally this wasn't a big deal, like what make of car do you drive. And it could be interesting. However he would ask things that were meant to separate the genders. "What shampoo do you use."  Mind you fish boys did not have much hair *(military boot cut)* so very few if any actually used shampoo. Said senior claimed he didn't see any problems with what he was doing; he was innocent of charges. You could claim he knew exactly what he was doing and was trying to get away with. That's the sort of thing I expect moving forward, being as close to the line as possible, even straying just over it, and then claim innocence for the behavior. So ever vigilance. 

Oh the glamping is the ruination of our scouts!  

But yah, um, Scout leaders take rugs, Scouts take rugs, and this isn't the military. I like to put out a small, old crappy tarp in front of my tent. 

Now if the scout's underwear was hanging out of the tent, I'd be asking the scouts to please take care of their stuff better.  

There's no safety risk here. At worse if it rains the rugs outside will get a little wet and could act as a wick and pull moisture into the tent. Might pull in some bugs, but what doesn't pull bugs in? 

Yah, it's hard to determine the propriety on the concept of smelling something sweet on the breath. Especially since it was determined by one ASM who told the SM. There's lots of things that can lend such a smell. Course here's where I must state that I have no idea of how things smell as I am anosmic (can't perceive any odor i.e. I don't smell anything). What is Fruity to one might be something else sweet to the other. I'm always thinking of diabetic ketoacidosis when someone talks about fruity breath smells. That or candy, breath mints etc. 

Still, you have to also consider if the scout has a history or if the troop has one or if the ASM has a history of encountering these things in other settings.... What motivates the decision on the suspicion? 

One of the problems with suspicion is that we look for things and have confirmation bias when we are looking for it. I had a kid once at a church youth event who was in the AA for teens. He was turning his life around, working at being clean and clear etc. One of the adults from another church chapter found out and had it in for this kid. Knew this kid had to be bad. And gee, the kid did looked and acted a little rough like he came from a bad environment. BECAUSE HE HAD! Yet here he was turning himself into a different person. 

Anyway, this was a huge event involving not only our multi-state region, but another multi-state region. Our kid fell in with some of their kids because of similar likes in music, hacky sack etc and at the end of event dance he was hanging out with them when they passed him a can of coke. Except the can contained more than just coke. Our kid took a sip, threw on the ground, and got very angry at these people. Immediately went and got an adult involved etc. He then needed to go make a call to his AA counselor (this was in the 80s, no cellophones). That adult who was looking for a reason heard there was an issue involving alcohol and went quickly into the fray trying to be the enforcer etc.  Long story short, that adult was informed he would never be allowed at any events outside of his own church and a report was sent to his church as well. Yah, it was pretty messed up. 

As to your questions: 

Depends on what sort of history is going on here, but basically if you can state your case to where another adult (SM here) agrees, then yes you can conduct a search. Hindsight can't play a role. It's what going on then and what has happened before that helps sway our judgement. 

There isn't a protocol listed anywhere. Common sense tells you that you had better have appropriate controls over the search, but hey! Who operates on common sense all the time? I agree that it is wise to think ahead and have a troop plan on how to handle searches so that everyone can think about it rationally and with leisure. Haste doesn't lend itself to rational thought all the time. 

Personally, without some historical evidence lending to this decision, I'd want some secondary confirmation. And then I would want to take time to talk about it with other scouters. Not saying that vaping is harmless or good etc, but it won't kill anyone immediately (unless the vape explodes, but that's another story). 

You can hide all sorts of stuff in all sorts of ways. Just searching a tote or tent isn't going to necessarily find anything. If you have time and can watch a scout for clues to what they are doing, and see if it occurs more than once then you have more of a rational reason to do it.  

As to if the SM etc have the right? Absolutely. Should they exercise that right because they have it? Only when it is prudent. And you are going to have arguments on how prudent it is unless there's ample evidence before hand that it's a good idea. And even then, there are folks who are going to argue the legality. 

Saw on the news this last week that a mountain lion was seen (photographed even) in far eastern Oklahoma. News says that its been a few years since one was confirmed, but they are starting to come back into the state there. Same way with bears. Reports are starting to pop up now and then about their reappearance. Either they are repopulating or they are being squeezed into view as humans push further into their areas. 

55 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

There's no way in hell I'm rooting around anywhere a scout keeps his underwear without a second set of eyes present. 

Need gloves too.  Gas mask might be prudent as well. 

At camp it's difficult enough for the coffee truck to make its way to all the campsites in the morning early enough before the flag ceremony. 

Oh lord, nothing worse than adults crying bout not getting their coffee. I get it, but sometimes things happen. You can get your coffee at breakfast. Deal with it. I like coffee too. Stop complaining! Someone get this scouter their coffee so we can get some relative peace here! 

The two troops I've been associated with have never searched anything of a scouts, not even their tents, unless there was just cause and even then it was done without advertising it in an open manner following a procedure that is pretty generally accepted. In other words, more than one adult in attendance and unless it was an emergency. Also the scout present as well, again unless it was an emergency. In fact, I've only been present one time when it was done and that was for a scout in an emergency situation.

Generally though, if there is something the scout has that they really shouldn't have we talk with the scout privately. If it was a safety issue, we asked the scout to bring us the item(s) for safe keeping. Otherwise, please put it in the bottom of your bag and don't bring it out again this trip and don't bring it on future trips. 

There are some small items on that though. 

• 1) I've entered a scout's tent with their permission when they aren't there to do a particular thing. For example, retrieve their item they forgot (that is absolutely needed and my doing so made sense), fix a cot etc
• 2) I've gone through many a summer camp when a sudden rain shower appears and if I know the tents are open (like my own), I get back and hustle around and close tent flaps. Yes, leaving them open would certainly teach a scout not to leave their flaps open. No, I don't want to deal with scouts having hypothermia because they have wet sleeping gear. No, i don't want to deal with the mildew either. Adults are most often the ones with the open tents unless they know there's a good chance for rain. Now stuff left on the table is mostly fair game. I won't let some things get ruined like scout books/papers, but I'm fine with generally everything else in reason. Items on the clothes line I'll decide if they can re-dry after the rain or if it is bad enough to bring them all down and into a tent. 
• 3) Scouts who are reported as having or seen as having things that they shouldn't have (like too many knives--yes we've had that too) we talk to the scout privately with another adult present and ask them to bring us the things they shouldn't be having. I carry zip-lock bags for this reason, place in here and let's put your name on it to be returned after camp. I love having my vehicle for this reason. Almost as good as a safe. 
• 4) On my son's troop we had a campsite "Health Lodge" on every outing. Scouts know to come and treat themselves for minor things, with some adult observation or assistance if needed. Ready supply of Gold Bond available. Also medicine dispensary on hand for the scouts who needed it. (I'm working on getting a campsite health lodge  for my current troop, including updating the first aid box.)
• 5) Parent approval allowed some scouts to self administer their prescribed medication, but we always reviewed it with the scout in question. Sometimes the scout was taking a medicine they didn't want others to know about. Big thing is there are lots of meds that really are safer in our hands than with the scouts. And lots of medicines that scouts don't want their peers to know about. Meds can be dispensed relatively privately with the scout knowing that if they don't come, we will find them and ask them to drop by for a small chat. We always encourage scouts who are taking meds or not to drop by at times they don't need anything, just so other scouts see them as chatting with adults. Gives them a nice cover if they feel they need it. Gives us a good reason to get in touch with how things are going for everyone. 

One of the things I'm more concerned about these days is how to keep prescriptions safe. It's a problem in some cases where you have to keep it readily available and secure. Can't be at the campsite 24/7. 

I'm going to repeat in a reiterative way something that has been said before in various fashions.  *whew, that was a fun sentence* 

1) You know your scout the best.

2) You are the first judge of whether your scout needs a helpful push into uncomfortable situations or when they need .... (see 3 & 4)

3) A consultation with your scout to ask what they want out of things. Sometimes they want to drive on. Sometimes they want to back away. The most difficult part is knowing when to rein them in or nudge them forward. 

4) Second independent judge. Never be afraid to ask for advice (which seems like you've got that) and hopefully any unsolicited advice doesn't become difficult to deal with. That can either be in great respect for you and hoping that they aren't intrusive when they do it -OR- busy bodies thinking they know better than you without knowing anything about the situation. 

My son signed up to earn this badge at summer camp the first year it was offered there. I don't know how they handled that particular requirement, but I strongly suggest if you have the chance to do so, sit with your scout to hear an old timer talk about times long ago. It's a kick watching scouts hear the tales and honestly, it was super entertaining for me too. We had the luxury of having a great ASM who had been with the troop since his kids were in it in the 70s. He had served in various capacities (SM, ASM, CC etc) throughout all those decades and is still serving today. He got to rolling on some great stories of scouts and their adventures. It was a hoot. 

Just sit back, relax and let them tell the tales. Scouters who have been around that long typically have a way that kids enjoy listening to them. I was honored to be able to listen in. 

Afterwards, my son was wanting to collect such stories (recording) from various scout leaders just for the shear enjoyment of it. He never got around to doing it though. I can see that as a wonderful side project for a scout to be shared with others. 

On a related question, one of the things I hear about is where a case is dragged on through the courts, in the hopes that the other side will finally cave or reach settlement in order to stop the constant drain due to the costs of keeping the litigation alive. Is this a frequent thing for cases we might face in the BSA? 

I don't have the link, but there's a scout trek in the Big Bend area of Texas that has a week long adventure riding horses and camping. My son's old troop is attending this year. 

I can't speak for your council, however my council filters that through the process it follows up the chain and it will be added as time goes on. Your council will control the speed of that initially.  

Either it will be there as fast as paper can travel, somewhere in between, or you're going to tie with a sloth carrying a turtle. 

9 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I learned this from a forum member 22 years ago.

Just bunching them down? I can see that, I think. Not sure though. 

Any idea how it helps keep away the dirt and chiggers? Really curious as I love new things that work and I like to know how it does it. 

our troop sports 3 shirts in different colors: red, grey, and blue.  Grey being near white, but not quiet there... for that patriotic affect.  Also recently branched into hoodies.  I feel it is a bit overkill. 

Yah, the troop I'm with has a designated necker. However I'm nearly certain that this is because adults decided it at some point. That's a whole other issue with adults mouthing the words scout lead while doing the opposite. Something I hope to change course on with assistance in the future. 

I've no problem with the necker, per se. I don't like that it's so small on my adult frame, but that's the situation with being adult size. I don't care for the slide, but I can make a woggle if I so wish, so I'll do that some day. In this troop, nearly all of the adults wear the approved necker whenever we are in uniform. If they don't, its only temporary for whatever reason. And some are wearing another sanctioned necker (wood badge, eagle, etc) depending. I really appreciate the scouters who wear their neckers and their beads together. That's dedication there. 

However about 1/3rd of the scouts don't wear the necker generally. It comes and goes in fashion depending on who in the troop is wearing it. The older scouts stop wearing it as they exert their independence or if they become sloppy, and thus the younger scouts think that's the way to go. Some have lost it or whatever and aren't interested in asking for a replacement. 

The fun is when we get some good scouts in charge and they wear the necker proudly. It causes the other scouts to start wearing theirs too. That's the current status this year. I'm pleased as punched about it. Nearly all the scouts are currently wearing it. 

The uniform is not required. Not even when in front of the Eagle Board. It serves a purpose and we want our scouts and ourselves to be in the appropriate uniform to the best of our ability. But again, not required. 

My son's troop has a small trailer. That along with a pickup for when needed ensures they have everything they need. I'm all on board the idea of small trailers. 

My troop (different from my son's) had their trailer stolen a few years ago. There was a rash of trailers being stolen in the region (which I share with another poster here), and a lot of scout troops were suddenly missing not only their trailer, but they also stored all their gear in them. My troop has a storage room, so most of their gear was in there. Unfortunately, they had also recently returned from a camping trip, so not all their gear was saved. 

Long post in short bullets. 

1) If you have a trailer, practice unloading it after camping trips and reloading it before then. 

2) Do your best to secure it. We have a chain and bolt sealed in concrete. If you aren't aware of it, boom goes the axle if you try to haul it away. 

3) What you can haul sets the tone for your camping like Eagledad said. Adults are really lazy folks, as we like our comforts so we're willing to carry everything. 

4) Big trailers mean you're required to have something to haul it. If you don't have the ability, you're in trouble. Usually not a problem for us, but now we're down to two folks with the trucks capable of doing the hauling. 

5) There's a summer camp in the state that has a huge grade going down into the camp and coming out. I've not been there, but my SM talks about how many folks tend to ruin their transmissions because of it. 

6) After our trailer was stolen, it of course made big news in the region. And a company stepped forward and supplied a new trailer with custom paint job etc. It's a beautiful trailer with shelves and everything. 

Similar to what we have here in Oklahoma City. A large enough lake and good wind.  Oh and a star to sail by.

59 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

Soooo, I wonder, Do sea scout ships actually have boats and really go sailing?

Good idea on that backing packing point. Having it readily available is important. 

18 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

We are headed into the first Ordeals that will include female youth, and still trying to sort those mechanics out. Same for Camp-o-rees, high adventure, and more. 

We had our spring ordeal a few weeks back. All the under 18 girl candidates were put into their own clan. Adult women were embedded in the various clans the same as everyone else from Venture Crews, Scout Troops, and Scurvy Sea Scout... whatever their unit names are matey. LOL   Arggghhh.  

I can honestly say I didn't hear any negative comments anywhere about girls who were candidates.  Could have been because we were going through the ordeal and couldn't talk....  But honestly, there just weren't any folks who were expressing negative attitudes. If they had them, they probably weren't there to begin with or knew to keep it to themselves. 

I have a hand me down cot from Bass Pro Shops. It's alright, but the plastic feet have a habit of wandering off. I'd like to get something better someday, but one can't knock a free and serviceable cot. 

I saw this somewhere out there in the internet world and I do it for my cots when I put them on a tarp or in a tent. Luckily I know some folks who play tennis and have a lot of cast off tennis balls. 

Take a tennis ball, cut it open to make a little pac-man for each cot foot/leg. (watch that blood circle! I had scouts trying to get close enough to see what I was doing.) Place the foot/leg of the cot into the tennis ball. Instant weight distribution in the feet that won't tear into the tarp/tent floor. 

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

13 hours ago, mashmaster said:

I tried a Helinox cot and OMG it was amazing.  but it is like $400 so I didn't buy one.  I borrowed one and it was amazing.

$400.....for a cot....that's like, aluminum poles and a piece of canvas. And that's $400?

I could buy 10 regular cots for that.  Of course, then I'd need a bigger tent....(and some more friends)...

It is cheaper now.  Around $250 or so, with alternative brands available. Not something I'll get soon, as I've got other gear I want first. Specifically a tent of my own other than the family giganto tent.