69RoadRunner

I will be taking plenty of Vitamin I to deal with any pain.  Also Turmeric pills for inflammation.  For the IT band, when I had it, the pain was usually gone the next morning.  Of course additional downhill would bring it back.

We travel in Class As, so the scouts are used to that. I foresee some issues with some of these scouts. A couple of pick eaters, some who tend to let others do the work, etc. Having the duty roster in place ahead of time will be a big help, I hope.

One scout has diabetes. His dad is going along. I'm not worried about him at all.  He plays rugby and is a leader.  Perhaps a bit too much at times, but when you're the oldest of 4 boys, that comes with the territory.  😀 He's a good kid.

We also have 1 scout from another troop that I don't know. He's known very well by my other adult leader and there is no chance this kid would be coming if he wasn't a great kid.

8 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Honestly, most of the youth from a physical perspective will likely do well.  Boots are another issue that need to be addressed of course.  Leaders, that's another story.  You can do a good pack shakedown in a driveway.  Everyone full packs, you run down the list, make sure it's there.  If you have folks from past years, have them come and discuss what may or may not be needed (I've never taken rain pants).

Biggest thing to get done is crew cohesion, and working together as a team.  The Philmont trek is much different than weekend trips or summer camp due to length and smaller numbers (at least in our case) on the outing.  On the plus side they are older scouts so hopefully more mature.  On the downside there is literally nowhere to go to get away, you can't bail, and if you are not working together at least somewhat, makes for a long 12 days

I would make sure you have a solid crew leader, make sure everyone knows there will be daily work to get done; water, tarp, cooking, bear bags, etc etc; and everyone is expected to contribute.  There is crew gear; food, stoves, first aid, fuel, etc etc that everyone will tote.  Get the admin stuff done prior to departure, good clear structure led by the crew leader, then you are ready to meet the physical demands.

All excellent advice. I've been hitting the gym regularly and have done many hikes. As long as my plantar fasciitis stays away as well as the IT band issue that popped up 2 years ago during my son's hiking merit badge hikes, I'll be OK.  I've done a lot of leg work, and the IT band has been doing well.  It only came up during steep downhill sections.

Another adult leader is a few years younger and I think he'll be fine. Our third leader, who just signed on, is a 21 year old eagle from our troop.

Our crew is relatively young for a Philmont crew.  All but 1 will be 14 or 15.  We have trek 12 which is no dry camps and while I'd love to go there, not in Valle Vidal.  That somewhat simplifies our trek.

Amicus is a good brand.  MSR, too.

Here's a good review of backpacking stoves.

16 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Tall buildings? Stadiums?

We have one on Pitt's campus that is very popular for stair racing ... even though we have no shortage of hills.  Our South Side neighborhood holds a step treck. It's on a bus route.

We leap them in single bounds.  Sorry, had to.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. Both of my parents went to Pitt.  My dad bought Pitt football season tickets when I was 15. He passed away before the season started, but 2 of his coworkers took me to the games.  We had to climb Cardiac Hill to the old Pitt stadium every game.

We're in the flat part of Northern VA.  I've taken my pack to the gym, loaded it with weights and done the stairmaster.

49 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I suspect that your crew will be the least of your ranger's worries.

That sounds like a challenge.  😋

We have another gear check on Saturday.  The parents have been slow following my suggestions. Then we'll do a full gear hike of a couple of miles and practice with the stoves and setting up our dining fly.

Last night at our regular meeting, we showed several of the Philmont videos to the entire troop.  I'd sent them out to the crew, but I suspect few watched them.

We have a trail that runs through our neighborhood.  No fires or camping are allowed along it, but it has a stream.  No significant hills.

We'll be OK if not ideal.

Is this for normal backpacking or Philmont style, patrol backpacking with giant pots?

If you're not using giant pots, you can't beat this for price:  https://smile.amazon.com/Etekcity-Ultralight-Portable-Backpacking-Ignition/dp/B00B4FY8YO/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3RKUKII1Q13BO&keywords=etekcity+ultralight+portable+outdoor+backpacking+camping+stoves&qid=1558550280&s=gateway&sprefix=etekcity+ultralight%2Caps%2C177&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

We've had many scheduling problems conspire against us and haven't done nearly the prep that we should.  I'm even getting the boys to do hikes around the neighborhood with packs on their own time to get in shape.

I will make sure we have proper gear. This troop hasn't been a backpacking troop, it's been mostly car camping.

We are cramming for the final in these last couple of months.  We'll get in as much as we can.

I do have a recent Eagle from our troop going as an adult and he's worked at Philmont.

We'll be one of those crews that struggles at times.  We have trek 12 with no dry camps. That should help some.

But they'll learn.  They'll overcome adversity.  They'll have fun.

And we won't be like the troop my WFA instructor told us about that showed up with suitcases.

That was cathartic for me.

Our chuck boxes are heavy duty Army style beasts.  We have 4 patrols, including adults.  We've grown a bit and are maxing out our little, old trailer.  We might need a slight upgrade in size.

For us, I want single axle, no brakes, standard vehicle width.  In VA, you don't have to get it inspected if it doesn't have brakes.  While I usually haul it and know how to use a brake controller from towing my 69 Road Runner, no one else does. If the trailer has brakes, unless it's surge brakes like the U Haul rentals, the tow vehicle needs to be wired for a brake controller. That limits who will be able to tow it.

Standard width means if the tow vehicle fits, the trailer will, too. We had 1 camp site where I would not have made it with a wide trailer.

Single axle is easier to maneuver.

On 4/29/2019 at 7:36 PM, BryanInOakland said:

Just to get back to the gas question, I saw where you can't bring them on an airplane.

So i can't see any reason to try and ship gas canisters ahead of time.  Should be easiest to just buy a few once we get there and then any new ones needed at food pickups.  Right?

Buy it at Philmont.

21 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I've heard the Cog Railway is closed for repairs. You might want to look into that. 

Well, crud.  I guess we can still try to check out the area.  We'll arrive on a Saturday at the end of July, so I'm sure it will be packed.

https://www.pikes-peak.com/pikes-peak-cog-railway-closed/

Taking the cogwheel up to Pike's Peak and staying in a hotel is a sound option.

We're arriving 1 day early and I'm planning on flying into Colorado Springs.  I don't think we'll have time to do anything at the AF Academy.  An adult in our troop suggested camping at Garden of the Gods and then drive to Philmont the next day rather than stay an extra day at Philmont base camp. 

I like this idea to see something different and to have a nice meal before 11 days of backpacking meals.

Anyone do this or have a similar suggestion? We won't have a lot of time, just an afternoon and evening.  I plan to rent a 12 passenger van at the airport.

I like my coffee like I like my women.

Cold and bitter.

Also, if you're not registered, you can only spend 72 hours at scouting events per year.  In that 73rd hour, you become a predator.  Apparently.

However, at the beginning of the next year, you're safe again for another 72 hours.  Not sure what spell or curse was cast that only protects a person for 72 hours per year.

And one more fun bit the OP probably missed, 2 registered, YPT compliant women over 21 can lead a group of all boys, but if even 1 girl is in the group, then 1 of the adults must be a woman.

Welcome to policy by committee compromise.

9 minutes ago, AltadenaCraig said:

The one tip I'll pass-on is this:  "Nido" whole-milk powder.  

Wal Mart around here has it near the baby food.

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

My scouts prove on every outing that ramen does not in fact need to be cooked, it can be eaten as is and is a great crunchy snack.  The flavor packets are poured over as a "flavoring"

Scouts are basically raccoons or squirrels that will eat anything left out.  😀

On 2/1/2019 at 4:14 PM, perdidochas said:

The southern alternative to this is grits. (although you shouldn't put freeze-dried fruits in it).

"No self-respecting southerner eats instant grits."

-My Cousin Vinny 😀

I might have to get the digital version of this book. It certainly sounds like several steps up from your usual backpacking fare.

https://backpackinglight.com/book-review-ultralight-recipes-for-outdoor-explorers/

Finally, we're getting these Fozzils Bowlz as crew gear.  Light, cheap and they unsnap to be flat.

Choose your gear well, leave unnecessary stuff at home and you'll have a better time carrying a lighter pack. 

Sleeping System
Bag
Philmont suggests using a 20 degree bag. Depending on how cold your scout sleeps, 20-30 degree bags
should work well.
Down bags are lightest and compress the most. They are more expensive, but with care, last longer
than synthetic. A down bag must be kept as dry as possible, even more so than a synthetic bag.
Ideally, the sleeping bag should be less than 3 pounds.
Shop the sales, but the Kelty Cosmic Down bag is a good price for down.
https://www.rei.com/product/896029/kelty-cosmic-down-20-sleeping-bag-mens

Outdoor Vitals has good prices on down sleeping bags. I bought one for Jason when they had a big sale.
Outdoor Vitals bag

Dry Bag
A dry bag that easily fits the sleeping bag is a must.

Sleeping Pad
Many pads come in 20” wide and 25” wide sizes, in addition to multiple lengths. Due to the limited floor
space of two person tents and small size of scouts, the pad should be 20” wide.
Backpacking pads are either closed cell foam pads or inflatable. Self-inflating pads tend to be too heavy
and bulky. For scouts, closed cell pads are simpler and cheaper. If using an inflatable pad, the scout
must be able to blow it up and bring a repair kit. These can develop holes, so another reason to lean
toward closed cell. Inflatable is more comfortable for most people. That is more of an issue for us old
people.
Look at the weight of inflatable pads. The lightest ones are expensive.
Nemo Switchback – highly recommended. Currently REI exclusive.
https://www.rei.com/product/141846/nemo-switchback-sleeping-pad

Thermarest closed cell:
https://www.rei.com/product/810386/therm-a-rest-ridgerest-solite-sleeping-pad

Lightweight Insulating layer from that document:

Insulating Layer
This item might not leave the backpack, but we need to have it available, depending on the trek chosen
and weather conditions. These can be either down or synthetic. Down is lighter and warmer by weight,
but typically more expensive and loses more insulating ability if it gets soaking wet. This should not be
worn as an outer layer during rain, so It shouldn’t get soaking wet. This should weigh a pound or less.
A relatively inexpensive, light down jacket is available at Uniqlo. Jason and I each have
one and it weighs around 10 ounces! Keep an eye out for sales and clearance items.
Uniqlo light down jacket

This layer is more critical depending on the Philmont Trek the crew chooses. There are synthetic options
too, but keep it light and pack small!

Insulating Layer 2 – Fleece
Old Navy has a good, lightweight fleece hoodie at a good price. This works well with a wind jacket since
fleece does not block wind well.
Old Navy fleece hoodie

More from that document:

Rain Gear
Philmont requires a rain jacket and rain pants. Ponchos are not allowed.
This is a tough subject as lightweight raingear can be very expensive. Many Philmonters suggest Frogg
Toggs and Dri Ducks, which are often available at Wal Mart. These are light, inexpensive, but are not
durable. They have several versions of Frogg Toggs. The lightest ones tear easily. Consider these,
although I do not know the weight. Frogg Toggs are a little oversized so they will fit over insulating
layers.
https://www.froggtoggs.com/all-sport-rain-suit-16593/

My Trail Co. often has discounts on their rain jackets and pants. Don’t get the wind jacket or wind pants
in lieu of rain gear. They are not waterproof. https://mytrailco.com/collections/mens-rain-gear

Also, search sales for rain jackets and pants under a pound.
A light rain hat is optional if the jacket has a hood, mandatory if it does not. A wide brim hat can work
well in sun and rain.
Windshirt (optional, but I found a cheap option)
On a cool, windy morning, these very light jackets combine with the fleece layer to provide a great deal
of warmth for the weight. These are usually too expensive to recommend for scouts, but I found a
cheap option on Amazon. The sizing is shown in Asian and US sizing, so go up two to three sizes from
Asian and do not tell your scout that they are marketed to women.  They look like rain jackets but are
not fully waterproof and much lighter.

Amazon wind jacket

External frame packs are good for heavy loads.  Today, unless you have some specialized trip (hunting, very cold temps) or a very long haul before resupply, there's no reason to have a very heavy load.

If you do some research and shop around, including cottage industry companies like Zpacks, Gossamer Gear, UGQ, Enlightened Equipment, TarpTent, etc., you can find light, compact sleeping bags and tents that fit in the pack.  You don't have to look like the Beverly Hillbillies' truck with a Thermos, lantern and ping pong table strapped to your back.

Take just what you need.  Choose gear designed for backpacking.

Here's my work in progress gear list for Philmont. https://lighterpack.com/r/1y08fv

I shopped sales, so very little was bought at full price.  I found cheaper options for my son.  He had the nerve to grow 1.5 sizes between me getting him trail runners and our second hike!

Here's part of a document I wrote for our crew:

Here are places I use and others have suggested. Buying at the end of a season is usually a good way to
find clearance sales.

1. Thrift Stores – you never know what you might find.
2. REI – I love REI, but do not buy things at full price! Get a membership and shop the sales. Big
discounts are on their garage web site at https://www.rei.com/rei-garage They also sell
returned items at https://www.rei.com/used Anniversary sale starts May 18.
3. Used Patagonia Gear – Patagonia is a brand with excellent quality, but at a high price. Even
used, it is not exactly cheap, but you might find something https://wornwear.patagonia.com/
Their lightweight synthetic and down puffy jackets and fleece shirts are something to consider if
you find a bargain.
4. eBay – I bought a nice synthetic insulating jacket (from Ukraine!) and my rain jacket at big
discounts. You need to know what specific item you want. Browsing is very time consuming.
5. https://www.campmor.com/ - many discounts, 20% off your first item (look for that coupon on
the top of the page).
6. https://www.steepandcheap.com/ - everything is discounted.
7. http://www.backcountrygear.com/ - many sale items available.
8. https://www.backcountry.com/ - many sale items available.
9. https://www.massdrop.com/ This is a unique site. They work with manufacturers to offer
quality items at a discount. If enough people commit to buying the item, the discount is greater.
I purchased socks and a titanium coffee mug here. The downside is that it can take a month or
more for the items to arrive.
10. https://smile.amazon.com/ - not always the cheapest, but I have found deals here. I also like
reading the reviews. Use the “smile” version of the site and pick a charity. It costs nothing to do
it and you help a charity.
11. https://mytrailco.com/ I bought my son's pack here. Keep in mind the Backpacking Light 70 is
frameless. This means you can’t overload it. I also bought a rain jacket, rain pants and other
items at good prices.

On 2/19/2019 at 2:00 PM, SSF said:

Do you feel that hiking is a more valuable life skill to have over swimming? 

No.

My son, and other scouts, really don't like swimming in the lake at summer camp. He chose to do the Hiking merit badge for that reason. I did the hikes with him. It certainly is harder than Swimming.

Cycling might be done less often due to fewer counselors, too.

A scout has the first amendment right to protest without being punished by the government.

BSA has a right to tell a scout that certain conduct is expected while in uniform and if a scout violates those rule, membership can be revoked.

Doing this in uniform in wrong.  Not illegal, but wrong. As was mentioned above, feel free to protest as your beliefs dictate, but not in uniform.

I hope BSA lets the scout and parents know that this is not appropriate in uniform.

This is an issue perfectly appropriate for discussion in the Citizenship in the Community merit badge.