69RoadRunner

REI brand tents when they have their big sales are usually a good price/quality option.  Don't pay full price.

ust back from trek 12.  No dry camps and finished with a climb of Mt. Baldy.

This was the first trek for all of us, but one of our adults, a 21 year old who went through our troop to Eagle did NAYLE training there.  We had a young crew of 14 and 15 year olds.  Two just turned 14 prior to the trek.

This was the most physically demanding thing I’ve ever done.  I’m very glad I’ve been hitting the gym several times per week for the past few years.  I saw guys there who clearly did not meet the height/weight requirements.  I saw a few on trail who were slowing their crews down.

The bulk of gear/food was a bigger issue than weight. We began with our longest food haul of 4 days.  I had to show our crew how to mash their mashable gear to make more room.

The crew like the COPE course, spar pole climbing, horseback riding and most of all, summiting Baldy.

My youngest and smallest in the crew went from collapsing on the trail from New Dean to Ponil and wanting to quit to 2 days later asking about being a ranger.  That change was cool.

Speaking of rangers, our ranger Emily was ranger of the week for good reason.  She was awesome.  I have no doubt she will be a success in life.  I gave her a great review.  She brought a pound cake for us and iced it on trail.

The root beer at Ponil was a big morale booster.  Glad we went through there twice.  The only time we got lost was trying to find our campsite at Ponil, though.

At New Dean, we had campsite 3.  When we arrived, there were 3 horses in our site.  Just staring at us. We stayed.  One started coming a little close to our lunch, but otherwise they left us alone.  They’d go out in the fields together to eat and then come back.  We named them Moe, Larry and Curly.  That was interesting for a trail camp.

Horse Canyon was a beautiful campsite on top of a mountain with a great view of Baldy.  We really liked that one.

Baldy Town was very interesting.  I knew that climbing to the top was a challenge, but until you experience it, there’s no way to truly know.  That last steep part was really hard.  The crazy thing was going from calm air to taking the last step up to the top and getting hit by 50? mph wind and wind chill that felt like it was in the 20s.  The view was worth it.

Our crew leader has 3 younger brothers.  He took 3 small rocks from the peak that his brothers will have to take back up. Pretty cool idea.

In our regular activities, we adults cook for ourselves and we eat well.  It was nice having the crew do all the work and we just showed up to eat.  They weren’t perfect, of course and mornings took longer than ideal, but for a young crew, they really took on the challenge.  I’m so proud of them.

One thing that kept coming up on another site was how tight the camping sites were.  We had 6 scouts and 3 adults, so 5 tents.  I took a 1 person tent as the solo adult, but could have easily fit a 2 person tent in every spot I chose.  That’s what I’d do again.

Six quart pots worked just fine.  I’m glad we took our own. If we had more experience, I’d have tried the 1 pot method.  Maybe next time.  I will suggest this to Philmont as it meets all of their requirements (patrol method, etc.), reduces bulk/weight and by cleaning with cold water (which we did), you use less fuel.  Thrifty and good for the environment.

We flew into Denver a day early.  We spent time at Garden of the Gods and the Air Force Academy.  I rented a 15 passenger van.  They tried to give me a 12 passenger van, but with no storage behind the last row, you need a 15 passenger van for 9 people with luggage.

We stayed at a hotel in Colorado City, CO and drove to Philmont the next morning.  I might find a place even further south next time.

Heading back, we had a red eye home. We had time to check out the Red Rocks Amphitheater.  What an amazing venue.  Wish I could have stayed a day to see Joe Bonamassa.  We drove around Denver and ate at this great, cheap Mexican hole in the wall restaurant El Taco de Mexico. Definitely recommend it.

Having the van let us pick and chose on our own schedule.  I like that.  We also stored stuff in it.

The crew wants to go back!  Looks like we’ll plan for 2021.

17 hours ago, David CO said:

I can relate to them. Scouting has never been my first priority activity. There is nothing wrong with a boy choosing to participate in a scout unit as his second or third favorite activity. We should be glad that the scout has a variety of activities and lots of friends to enjoy.

17 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

Agreed. If a youth prioritizes Scouting or not, I'm glad they are involved at whatever level they want to be. We're a broad enough program to accommodate all involvement levels. 

Yep.  That's what we do.

23 hours ago, SubSM said:

That is what we have to do on most campouts, due to the lack of scouts. I am trying to figure out how to build patrol spirit when every campout is another ad-hoc patrol here and there.

 

Mike

Same here.  As hard as I try, it's just not possible.  For many scouts, scouting is not the first priority activity.  If you don't accept that, then our troop would be VERY small.

We do the best we can with the circumstances we have.

We compete with other activities and we're a smaller troop.  I've had many activities where we had to make improvised patrols and age is a consideration.

Some years we've had enough new scouts to make a new scout patrol.  This coming year, we won't.

If there's an odd man out situation due to the stupid age thing, then you have to mix things up with another patrol.

23 hours ago, scotteg83 said:

If you could control yourself and another leader (have them there for the YPT requirements) but just follow the scouts (from the rear and far enough back) and just let them make all the steps.  If they get you lost, go with it.

This is a good idea.

If you drop kids in the middle of the woods like this and ANYTHING goes wrong, you know a Slip and Fall, Give Us a Call lawyer will be all over it.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Are you going to the Fishing Camp on your trek? The picture of the river reminded me of that very spot.

Barry

No, we're on trek 12.  Our crew was very split on fishing with some very pro and others not interested.

OK, this was just me and my son, not the whole crew.  My wife is part Norwegian, so we took 9 family members on a cruise of Norway.  One of the excursions was a hike to 2 glaciers, so my son and I did that.  However, our meal back on the cruise ship was a bit better than a Philmeal.  😀

So much for getting my weight under 200 pounds to ride the horses at Philmont.  I'll be about 5 over after that cruise.

2 hours ago, David CO said:

You don't really need to give them a compass and map. Just make the destination a video game arcade and let their instincts take over. 

You'd have to give them a time machine.  😄

Less weight  = more happiness.

Go with the lighter pack and work on a lower base weight.  Mine is around 12 pounds right now.  On a budget you can easily be under 15 before crew gear, food and water.

My mostly complete list for our 7/28/2019 trek:  https://lighterpack.com/r/1y08fv

15 hours ago, David CO said:

I think there is a very simple solution. Call home. If the parent says to take away the cell phone, take it away. No theft involved.

We did that at Sea Base last year when a situation with 2 scouts on our vessel reached a point where the parent needed to be called.  Also, they were told to leave cell phones in the van back at the Sea Base barracks but this scout didn't leave his.  The scout refused to turn over the phone so we got the parents to talk to him.  Then he turned it over.

Good grief!  This just seems insane to me.  Please stop playing lawyer ball.

I booked the hotel with the fewest pictures of dead body carpet stains on Yelp in Colorado City, CO.  It's a little closer to Philmont than Pueblo.

Lay the rules out ahead of time.  If the rules are violated, give the scout the option to lock up the device in a vehicle or go home.  You're not stealing it.

I'm OK with phones during vehicle travel and having them to contact parents on the way home with our ETA.

We're going to Philmont and I have 1 scout with diabetes whose phone works with his insulin pump.  He might be on a new device, but his dad is going and they have that worked out.  I'd like scouts to be able to take pictures when appropriate.  I really only have 1 crew member I'm concerned about not following those rules.  Most probably won't take the phone on the trek, but will on the plane/van ride.

We had an issue with a couple of scouts at Sea Base last year with phones that makes me want to be more restrictive.  I just hate when 1 or 2 people cause harsh rules for everyone else.  I don't like group punishment.

11 hours ago, David CO said:

What really matters is not where you stay, but what you eat. You must try the donuts on Pikes Peak. They are the best. 

I budgeted for good food in Colorado Springs.  We're getting something good before 12 days  of "oh this is good only because I'm starving from all the hiking and I have no other choice" backpacking food. 

Now that I look at the map, perhaps playing in Colorado Springs for the day and then driving 45 minutes toward Philmont and stay in Pueblo, CO, home to government pamphlets.  Hotels look cheaper there and we'd have a shorter drive in the morning.

We’re flying into Denver and are planning something flexible (Garden of the Gods, Pikes Peak) in Colorado Springs when we arrive.  Most of the crew plans to use Philtents, so we’re looking for a hotel for the 10 of us.  We’ll leave early in the morning for our first day of Philmont the next day.

Any suggestions for good places to stay in Colorado Springs?

3 hours ago, elitts said:

If you've never tried one before, be warned.  It's tough to sleep with them on the whole night at first.  It took me a good 2 weeks before I could tolerate having it on for more than 2-3 hours, and even now, about 1/3rd the time I wake up after 5-6 hours and have to release it.  But even with that, it's great.  It was SO nice to be able to wake up and walk without a limp for the first minute or two every morning.

I had PF in both feet at the same time. I had a boot that I wore every night, alternating feet each night.  I managed to sleep with it.

On 5/26/2019 at 8:24 PM, elitts said:

If it starts to flare up again, consider getting a Strassburg Sock to take with you.  It's a lightweight version of a "night splint".  Keeping the achilles tendon stretched out during the night makes a huge difference for me on whether or not I have pain during the day.

I bought this one.  Thanks!!

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IBGJKW4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

5 hours ago, jjlash said:

I havnt used a pack cover in many years.  Instead I use a pack liner and just deal with the pack itself being wet.  Any heavy duty trash bag will work as a liner, I like the ones we get from the DOT for highway cleanup because they are orange so easier to see into than the usual black bags.  They are a good diameter for my pack and tall enough to roll the top down.

One problem we often have with pack covers - when someone straps their foam pad to the outside of the pack, they always strap it horizontally which causes the cover to "flair" out leaving a gap on the sides.  Putting the pad inside the pack is better, but if they need to put it outside, I have them strap it vertically so the cover fits better.

To put the pad inside - try putting it into the empty pack vertically then unroll the pad as much as possible to create a "tube" and put everything else down inside the tube.

 

I bought 2 packs of trash compactor bags and handed them out to the crew to use as liners.  I have a nylofume bag for myself.

Good advice on the pads.

11 hours ago, qwazse said:

I've been using the same aluminum canteen for 45 years, just sayin'. The only downside is I haven't resided at the address that I engraved on it for some 30 years. If I lose the thing, I might have to take a drive there, introduce myself, and have them keep a lookout and find it a good home.

The clear bottle for drink mix is a good idea too.

I'm trying to teach them to use some of the lightweight techniques that modern backpackers are using in their through hikes of the Appalachian Trail and other trails.  If backpacking becomes something they want to do after scouts, I want them to know they can go light and enjoy backpacking more.  Using Smartwater or other "disposable" bottles is very common among lightweight backpackers.  They are surprisingly durable and light.

I was told one of our previous scoutmasters took our troop to Philmont and hit the trail with a pack that weighed over 70 pounds.  I can only assume he carried a dutch oven.

13 hours ago, Eagledad said:

One thing we didn’t consider on our shake downs was the size and weight of food. You’re packing for almost a week. ITS A LOT. So remember you may not be packing as neatly as you planned. We packed the tent torward the last because we could stuff it the what few spaces we had left. We packed lunch, and rain gear last so we didnt have to unpack everything getting to the bottom. 

Barry

I told our scouts to pack all of their personal gear in their backpack.  Then make sure they had enough space leftover to fit their home bed pillow in the pack.  This would ensure there was enough space for food and crew gear.  One scout arrived at gear shakedown with a pack that looked completely full.  I was worried.  He had arrived with the pillow in his pack to prove he had enough space.

We did a gear shakedown and hike today. Many members are missing items.  One common thing was not having a waterproof stuff sack for their sleeping bag.  I gave them all trash compactor bags to line their packs, which works a heck of a lot better than a pack cover.  But, it's critical to keep the sleeping bag dry.

Some were missing a fleece or other warm layer for high altitude.  I had sent out a link to a great Old Navy fleece that was on sale for dirt cheap early spring, but most ignored that. 

My son was trying a frameless pack.  That isn't going to work.  He's going back to his heavier Gregory pack.  It will transfer the weight to his hips better.

My Zpacks Arc Haul is great.  Love how light it is and it carries well.

We got some more experience with the remote canister stoves.  I found an 8 quart pot in our shed, but from what I've read, 6 quart pots are plenty for a crew of 10.  I think we have some that size in our shed.

I gave them two 1 liter Smartwater bottles and a Gatorade bottle plus a CNOC 2 liter container.  The Gatorade bottle will be what they use for drink mix so we know what to send up in the bear bags.  We have no dry camps.

I know not every stove is equal, but how much canister fuel should we expect to start with?  How often do you restock?

We haven't been able to do enough shakedowns to get a good idea.  I was able to boil about 5-6 quarts of water in about 13 minutes with our setup.  How much water do you need to boil for 10 crew members?

I'll have a personal stove for coffee, so I'll have an emergency stash of fuel.