69RoadRunner

6 hours ago, qwazse said:

I'm aware that things at Philmont are a little weird. I would think that after the incident where a scout couldn't escape his tent in a flood, they would have backed off that a little. There's surely a point at which are certain amount of stitched edges transitions a tarp into a tent.

But, no doubt: cheaper is heavier. Untreated netting isn't too expensive, the treated parachute cloth (my name for UL tarp) ain't cheap. But, if you're grabbing a tent just to toss its poles because you're counting on using hiking sticks or finding decently spaced trees, I suspect you'll hit cost parity quickly.

Questions:

• Has anyone used poles that double as pack frame?
• Do adults on Philmont crews share a tent? If so, does the advertised capacity from REI work for you?

If the poles were in your pack, then they'd be be useless as trekking poles.  There are frameless packs that use a sit pad to provide some weight transfer to the hips.  These are not meant for heavier loads.  There are lighter framed packs like my Zpacks Arc Haul (23 ounces, 62 liters) as well as ones from Hyperlite Mountain Gear, ULA, Seek Outside and others.  My son used the new REI Flash 55 pack that is very light. You have to have very compact gear and not overpack if you go with a pack that size.

Adults can use a solo tent. I did this past summer and was glad I did.  I'm 6'3" and 200 pounds.  The REI solo tent is a similar size.  You're not taking much into your tent, so you don't need much room.  If you have an odd number of scouts, one scout (typically an older one) can tent solo, too.

Most trekking pole tents like the Tarptent one I used do not come with poles.  You can purchase poles separately.

On 1/19/2020 at 4:36 PM, qwazse said:

I dunno guys, even after a 40% discount on the tent, I can buy a lot of tarp, netting, parachord, and stakes.

But Philmont won't allow you to use a tarp, if that's one purpose.

I'll also bet the tarp and netting you use will weigh more than these tents.  Ultralight tarp material is not cheap.

5 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

I think that 40% could buy a lot of beer too.  But since we're talking backpacking, it will have to be Lite beer so it's easier to pack into the backcountry.

AKA yellow water.  😁

On 1/17/2020 at 10:09 AM, mrkstvns said:

Hmm.  That doesn't sound like much of a weight saving.  Yeah, 2 pounds is pretty light, but what's the advantage of "trek poles" if I'm only going to save a measely 1 ounce? (Last I checked, the difference between 2lb and 1lb 15 oz was exactly 1 ounce...

 

I noticed that, too, and I suspect it's a typo.  These were just released.  There's no way the pole only weighs 1 ounce.

These do appear to be good options for anyone looking for a backpacking tent, whether an adult looking for a solo tent or scouts wanting a 2 person tent.

I picked several merit badges that I felt qualified to do and were ones our scouts typically have an interest in doing, particularly some Eagle required badges like personal fitness and hiking.

23 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

But MBC is a free (no fee) position? 

Right, I'm referring to the adult leader fee.

2 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

I hear you.  My understanding is that you have to fill out a separate form, because it's a separate position and because it's approved by different people.  The Chartered Org. Rep. approves Scoutmasters, but someone at the district / council level approves merit badge counselors.

As for renewals, each council seems to do its own thing.  Some councils will automatically renew MBCs as long as YPT is current (and the new disclosure and authorization form is on file).  Some councils want an updated list of merit badges each year.  Other councils might want something else as some kind of affirmation from the MBC that he or she wants to continue counseling.  I would recommend asking your council what they want.

Is your council requiring a BSA adult application each year?  That seems a bit overkill, IMO.

They just want the money each year for the adults already registered.  And of course YPT must stay current.  I've got 3 more months until that is due.

20 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Is there a secondary market like Stub Hub that I can profit from?  I will sign up for ALL the adventures, then dole them out at higher fees...all the money will be MINE!!!

Don't even THINK about stealing my idea for ScoutHub.  Primo Philmont treks are going for 3x face value.

Sadly, Summit treks are pennies on the dollar.

40 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@mrkstvns  Have you looked to see if you can change your listing preference in Scoutbook?  You should be able to get there by going to:  My Account -> My Positions.  Click on "Merit Badge Counselor" and you should be able to change your listing preference.  However, if you can't change it, you might have to contact your Council Admin for Scoutbook and ask them to change it for you.

Our troop currently uses Troopmaster, not Scoutbook, but I'm still good there.  my.scouting is where I checked my account for my BSA ID to register for Sea Base today.  On the account page, it shows that my MB counselor registration expires at the end of the month.

I mentioned it to our CM.  She's going to check on what's needed for me.

I think it's dumb that I have to fill out essentially the same form for MB counselor that I did to be scoutmaster.  I get keeping the background check and YPT current, but everyone hates forms and repeating info they already have should be eliminated.  I go through much of this every school year with the kids.  Some of the forms finally come pre-filled with some of their info.

48 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Signed on about 11:00 am (EST) and it was no errors or waiting.  Guess the tide (Seabase joke there) of inquiries had passed.

We signed up for 2 Out Island crews in late May, that has worked for us over the last 12 - 14 years.  New for this year was the deposit right now, past years I recall we have 30 days or so to send in money.  They did take CC, so not an issue

Got a prompt e-mail confirmation, now to sign up Scouts for the adventure

We're in the same boat.

(I'll see myself out)

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

So, did you actually confirm two crews? Or, did you get put in the lottery for two crews?

Two crews.  Our ASM checked 2 boxes for the same adventure on the same date.  Ran through the personal info and payment.  Then he got the email confirming the 2 crews.

There is not lottery like Philmont.  This is like buying concert tickets on Ticketmaster.  If you get through the process, you have your date/adventure.

My MB counselor registration expires soon.  Do I have to fill out a complete application app like they have no idea who I am or is there a simpler way?

BSA really needs to simplify things like this.  If you have my info and there's no change, all you need is my BSA ID, signature, etc.

We got 2 slots for our preferred date for Out Island Adventure.  Two of us were trying this morning and their web site couldn't handle the traffic.  We'd get so far, then Internal Server Error.  After about 10-15 minutes, the other guy got through and registered.

For anyone who comes across this post, here is how registration works.

1. it's like buying concert tickets. Keep clicking the link starting just before 9.  You're competing against other troops at the same time. if you can, get multiple people trying, but be on the phone with each other.  Everyone keep trying until 1 person gets ALL the way through registration.  Obviously everyone else stop so you're not paying for a slot you don't need.

2. Next page is just info about registration.

3. Next page, you pick your adventure from a drop down.

4. Next page has a list of dates with check boxes. If there are multiple slots for the same date available, check a box for each crew you want to take.

5. Next page is where you fill out your info (name, council, district BSA ID, etc.) and continue on to deposit payment of $250 per crew.

https://www.rei.com/product/168564/rei-co-op-flash-air-1-tent

https://www.rei.com/product/168565/rei-co-op-flash-air-2-tent

REI will likely have these on sale at some point.  These look like a great deal and are really light, particularly if you use trekking poles.

Definitely a BIG weight savings over a Philmont tent.

2 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Call the captain at Seabase and ask how to best put in for multiple Big Munson dates.

 

I'll give them a call for strategy advice.  With Philmont, we had a list of acceptable dates and that's what you put in.  We got our first choice.

4 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Not sure of where you are geographically or your local school schedules, our experience has shown that due to our public school schedules (ends before Memorial Day), we have been able to get crew slots late May early June when needed.  You camp so no seasickness at night.  The war canoe out is not bad, same with trip back.  The deep sea fishing day can be rocky and rolly, but it is only for 1 day and can be calm, depending on the wind.

Shark fishing at night is cool, until you realize you are walking back in water you just fished in...gives pause.

Seabase open registration is starting 1/15/2020

Our kids don't get out until mid-June.  It used to be worse.

Thanks for the info.  I'm susceptible to motion sickness and don't want another week on a sailboat.

Yeah, that registration date is coming, so trying to be prepared, as the saying goes.

3 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I would call Nancy at Seabase ahead of time and get her help for registering for it.   I think that is a very popular trek so you are reducing your chances but your reasoning makes sense.  

Last year our Ship did a 74 mile canoe trek on the Buffalo river in Arkansas.  It was a great roll your own adventure.  let me know if you are interested in details on that.

Sounds cool.  They might want something different after doing NT or they might like it enough to do more canoeing.  

8 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

We do those adventures.

I do not think they start every day, but I may be incorrect.  I thought they started on only a couple of days during the week.  There is limited space on Munson.  Our guys have always enjoyed Seasbase.  They can do a lot of different activities.

We are in the Southeast.  Our crews fly down on SAT, use a tour group for SAT night then to Seabase and start the trek on Sunday, this means the crew stays at base SUN, then on the island MON - THU, back to base on FRI night and fly back SAT

We had some seasickness (including me), rain every night that forced us all to sleep down below where it was hot, stinky and frankly a youth protection issue.  We had a captain who thought he was a drill sergeant and 2 scouts (no longer in the troop) causing problems.  

Some of those things would not happen again.  Some might.  Some certainly would.  Anyway, it all leads those who would be going again to not want a sailboat adventure.

So if we can't get the island adventure, we'll investigate other 2021 options.  We did Philmont in 2019 and are doing NT in 2020.  Summit isn't one we're considering no matter how much BSA wants to push it on us.  

MOHAB and "roll your own" are some alternates for 2021.

55 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

What adventure are you looking to do at Seabase?

Out Island Adventure.  We did the big sailboat with 20 people in 2018.  Not enough interest in SCUBA and they don't want to do sailboats a second time.

Our troop wants to do Sea Base in 2021. We went in 2018, but the person who did out lottery registration is no longer with the troop.

Our troop only wants to do 1 of the adventures. It looks like you choose a date and prioritize adventures.  It would be nice is you could pick and adventure and prioritize dates.

Is the registration like Philmont where you can start an adventure any day or do adventures always start on the same day?

If we don't get the specific adventure, we'll choose something else to do that year.

Thanks!

41 minutes ago, MattR said:

thanks for the video. Looks nice. Much nicer than my old tent.

Do the poles go straight down or do they have to go around the nest? My experience is straight down is important.

They are outside the inner net part.  You put your trekking pole in place and extend it vertically until the tent is taut.  No real need to even check the measurement. 

In fact, you can set up the fly separate from the inner if you're camping during bug-free season.  Then just use a ground cloth.

I like tents like this that can be set up in the rain with the inner already attached.  Most tents set up inner first and then the rain fly.  Then the inner gets wet.

33 minutes ago, MattR said:

It's behind a signup and get too much email wall, wish I could see the picture.

I had a supposedly 2 person tent that used trekking poles. It only weighed a pound and was just a tarp. It worked fine, until it rained, for a week. The material was really great but the problem was keeping away from the edge of the tent. Lesson learned: the bug net has more to do with keeping me under the tent than the bugs out.

So I went and bought a REI quarter dome on a great sale. It's about 2.5 lbs. For me, the extra weight is worth it.

My biggest challenge is finding a pack that's long enough for my torso. All the "large" packs I've tried, once they have weight and are on my hips, are just about an inch too short. So if you have ideas, let me know.

This is a double wall tent, not a tarp. 

24 minutes ago, TMSM said:

I have that same tent and it is great. Its a 1 person so understand that there is not a whole lot of room inside the screened in portion but lots of vestibule space and doors on both sides. The doors are on the sides so easier to get in and out. Going to Philmont in 2020 and cant wait to try it out in NM.

Well, you're not even allowed to have your backpack in the vestibule, so it shouldn't be a problem.  I used a Tarptent Aeon, which also has little leftover interior space, but I didn't need it.

If you're a scouter going to Philmont and use trekking poles, there's a fantastic deal on a highly rated, lightweight 1 person backpacking tent on Drop right now.

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-dan-durston-x-mid-1p-tent

Yes, adults can use 1 person tents if that's what you chose at Philmont.  This one is less than 2 pounds, which is a significant weight savings (and space saver) over splitting a Philtent, which is closer to 6 pounds.

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

All that is good, but unlike rivers with a current, wind is the big driver of fatigue on large lakes. I don't understand the science, but it doesn't matter what direction your paddling, you always have a headwind. What should take one hour to cross on a calm day could take two or even three hours in a head wind. Unlike hiking, if you stop to take a break, you loose ground, so stopping isn't really an option. The exercises with the most benefit is moderate exercise for at least 20 minutes or more.  Even a 3 mile fast walk 3 times a week that gets the heart rate up would be fine. Or interval training (HIIT). Interval training can be done with any exercise, but lets use walking as an example; warm up for 5 minutes with moderate walk, then a very fast walk for 1 minute with a moderate rest walk for 2 minutes. Do that five times and you will feel the burn. 

I suggest something like that because most scouts don't go to gyms to get in better shape. Truth is most youth are in pretty good shape, it's the adults who need to get in shape. But, if you ask the scouts to do a couple of 3 miles runs a week, they don 't seem to mind.

As for carrying gear, smaller scouts carried smaller loads, while the larger scouts carried heavy backs and canoes. The advantage of portaging is that you can, and will, go back for second loads. Hopefully you don't need to go back for the 3rd.

Barry

I do 20 minutes on the rowing machine, but also mix in a mile swim and will go back to the stair stepper, too.  I do weights and functional exercises.  I typically get there 3 times per week.

I've also switched my gym cardio from the stair stepper (Philmont last summer) to the rowing machine.  I've been taking my son to do that, too, along with the personal fitness merit badge stuff.

The rowing machine isn't a perfect match for the canoe stroke, but it helps.  We also do shoulder press, chest press and leg exercises on top of the merit badge requirements.