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Posts posted by 69RoadRunner
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13 hours ago, mashmaster said:
WOW your boat was massive compared to ours.
Yeah, I like the larger schooners better than the smaller ones. Still, 24 people, including crew, made it very crowded.
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I slapped together a bunch of my videos from our trip.
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Another piece of advice, bring earplugs. In the dorms, if your group doesn't have a snorer, you might be with another group with someone sawing wood.
It can also benefit on the boat.
Make sure your water bottle has a wide mouth opening. The water at Sea Base is warm, but they have an ice dispenser. Water bottles hang along the siderails of the boat, so this is why you need a carabiner and the bottle needs to be plastic to avoid loud clanking.
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24 minutes ago, Zebra132 said:
Can any of you tell me how to report a YPT incident "around" a council that likes to cherry pick what it will address and not address? I have the Member Care number but can't find it. A personal friend that is a professional Scout NOT to use Member Care. Suggestions?
I think you need to start by going through the established channels. If they sweep it under the rug, then go higher. Bypassing the established channels could do more harm than good.
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Thank goodness Irma didn't destroy Sea Base for us this summer. Rough time for BSA High Adventure.
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1 minute ago, qwazse said:
Makes tons of sense for those of us who've been there! I love reports like this. Hopefully, our experiences helped informed your decisions.
Regarding Key West, it's not just "their snowflakes". Some scouters contend with leaders who want time off from mid-week to have a drink (or seven, or ten). Or, we have kids with nascent behavior disorders. Or, we coeds have late teens with budding romances but a lack of discipline when backs are turned. Either way, we realize in the months leading up to the adventure that the short leash principle must apply. A major tourist city with a notorious drug and alcohol problem doesn't help.
That said. Since you had such young boys, you may want to try and inspire some of them to save up for the Bahamas sailing adventure in a few years. They'll enjoy the contrast of the Abacos.
On the flip side, older scouts clean up a little better. So the smell isn't so bad. But still, I endured the rain and slept topside. I found it was worth the loss of sleep ducking under a tarp until the rain stopped to sleep the remainder of the time above deck.
Yes, all the advice here was invaluable. Thank you.
Unlike the chickens of Key West, our scouts were not free range. Between the number of 13 year olds, 2 kids with Autism, and one scout whose behavior was awful this week, we were with them at all times. We allowed 2 very responsible 18 year old Eagles on the crew some free time. I'd be more concerned with a place like San Francisco with its defecation and hypodermics on the sidewalks.
Sending us adults to Key West with the rule of no drinking is like training a dog not to eat the biscuit on his nose, but that's the rule. We abided the rule.
This was our first high adventure trip since I joined 4 years ago. Philmont is booked next year. We'll survey the scouts to see if they want the triple crown in NT for 2020, return to Sea Base or something else.
While older scouts are more willing to shower, the ones who fail to do so are more pungent than the younger ones.
We didn't bring tarps. That might have been a better option and stay on top, even if you don't sleep. Really, if it rains at night, there's zero chance I'm sleeping, but I'd rather be cool and B.O. free and not sleeping than down in what was basically a well used gym sock down below.
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We just got back from Sea Base and our Sea Exploring adventure. I'll probably add to this as my memory allows.
This adventure is sailing on a large sailboat with 18-20 of your troop's crew plus 4 more (2 captains and 2 mates). This is the first problem. 18-20 plus 4 is too many. It might be fine if the weather is perfect, but we had rain at least part of every night. That many people cramped down below creates a heat and smell that makes things not joyful, at least for adults. Younger scouts seem to sleep in any condition. Sixteen is would be a better max. We maxed out our vessel's legal capacity.
We flew to Fort Lauderdale and had two 12 passenger vans reserved. Like the Seinfeld episode, Thrifty took our reservation, but did not hold it. They only had 1 van. We waited for over an hour and asked if they had any 8 passenger vehicles. They had an Expedition, so we were off. Sea Base wants you to have your own vehicles in case there's an evacuation. You're most likely screwed if you book transportation and have to evacuate.
We arrived at 2:30 thanks to Thrifty and were rushed into the swim review, which was really a snorkel review. The crew learned the basics of snorkeling, including jumping off the pier.
We were set up in one of the dorms and the a/c was broken. It was repaired in time for sleeping. We mostly brought sleeping bag liners since it's hot on the boat. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough for the cranked a/c that night. It was a little chilly. Perhaps bring a fleece blanket instead. On the ship, there was 1 night on deck where it was cool enough with the breeze that many of us used our sleeping bag liners. All other times people used nothing.
Our Captain of the Gran Nellie was sort of a drill sergeant. This got the scouts moving. His expectations for a crew with this many 13 year olds plus 2 with Autism was a bit higher than ideal, but we made it work. Twig arms of some of the young scouts struggled hoisting sails and retrieving anchors. They did it, but not fast. By the end of the week, they were getting good at it.
The first 1.5 days, several, myself included, were seasick due to the swells being rough. I did have prescription motion sickness medication. I was fine the rest of the week, which was mostly smooth with 1 day of rougher swells.
Snorkeling the reefs and wrecks was the best part! I brought a full face snorkel mask. It has a GoPro attachment. This was not ideal. I couldn't see if my FauxPro (GoPro knockoff) had timed out or was recording. A better option is a wrist attachment. Also, get a red lens filter case.
The food supplied was pretty good. They're smart and supply pre-cooked chicken, burgers, etc. We caught a big Mahi and Lexie, one of our mates, taught the scouts to fillet and cook it. Good stuff. We had some ceviche, too.
When there's lightning within 5 miles, you need rubber soled sandals or shoes. Our captain did not care if you wore sandals, some do. This was good for me as I got a painful splinter and had to perform surgery with tweezers. My foot was sore for 2 days and the sandals provided some pressure relief.
I wore a competitive style swimsuit under my boxer style swimsuit. This reduced chafing. Consider it.
Our day in Key West was fun. We toured the town, Fort Zachary Taylor and the Butterfly Museum (more interesting than it sounds). We ate at Caroline's which has good food and, for Key West, reasonable prices.
Best Key Lime pie is at the Key Lime Pie Factory.
Street performers in Mallory Square around sunset are interesting. We enjoyed it.
We were told some troop demanded that they not have a day in Key West (taking away a day off from the crew) because they didn't want their snowflakes exposed to evils of Key West. Really, the only questionable things I saw were some of the t-shirts in the shops and the smell of some of our scouts who must have avoided the water from the shower head.
We returned to Sea Base for our luau. By Boy Scout camp standards, it was decent. That night, the a/c was not as cold as the first (we were in the San Francisco dorm both times) and my sleeping bag liner was perfect.
After the 8am breakfast, we drove back to Ft. Lauderdale airport to find our flight delayed 3 hours. We ate there and just chilled in the gate area.
This is all on little sleep, so if it makes no sense, at least I have an excuse.
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I FINALLY found my answer.
https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/
Life Jackets
Properly fitted U.S. Coast Guard–approved life jackets must be worn by all persons engaged in boating activity (rowing, canoeing, sailing, boardsailing, motorboating, waterskiing, rafting, tubing, and kayaking). Type III life jackets are recommended for general recreational use.For vessels over 20 feet in length, life jackets need not be worn when participants are below deck or on deck when the qualified supervisor aboard the vessel determines that it is prudent to abide by less-restrictive state and federal regulations concerning the use and storage of life jackets, for example, when a cruising vessel with safety rails is at anchor. All participants not classified as swimmers must wear a life jacket when on deck underway.
Life jackets need not be worn when an activity falls under Safe Swim Defense guidelines—for example, when an inflated raft is used in a pool or when snorkeling from an anchored craft.
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I know little about Sea Scouts and nothing of their rules.
My limited experience on boats was that we had to have life jackets, but they were not required to be worn. Boy Scouts, of course, adds their own rules on top of everything.
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We've noticed in videos of crews sailing on Sea Base adventures that they crew members are not wearing life jackets. A member of our crew is in Sea Scouts and says they always have to wear them.
Does anyone know why the crew does not have to wear them?
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Yeah, I think I'm going to make a form listing the meds in the First Aid kit and they can check the ones they approve and sign it.
Aspirin I think is more of an issue for younger kids, but I won't have it in the kit. The BSA medication guideline PDF says that parents can approve scouts self-medicating, too. Since we're going to Sea Base, I told parents to discuss motion sickness medication with the scout's pediatrician. I'd rather the pediatrician be the one to give the advice. We're not doing SCUBA diving, so they're not limited Bonine.
I haven't figured out why vinegar is required in the Sea Base specific First Aid kit.
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In our First Aid kit we have Imodium, Benadryl (oral and topical), Bonine, Ibuprofen, Aloe gel and Neosporin. Should we make parents put these items on the medical form and say dosage as directed on the packaging?
Bonine is for Sea Base.
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9 hours ago, qwazse said:
Making the horse drink the water you took the trouble to lead him to. I get it. But as scouters, we need to also double check our motives for high speed, low drag.
Efficiency is all fine and good until some teen tosses and turns in unfamiliar bedding and rolls or sleepwalks overboard! If that happens, that delay at the airport because some kid has to check a sleeping bag will seem trivial.
We'll make sure to have a watch up all night to make sure nobody sleepwalks into the sea due to an unfamiliar sleeping pad.
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3 hours ago, qwazse said:
Shoes? Depends on the boat and the captain. Some rubber soles, in tropical heat, on some decks, will scuff and leave marks. Those old decks typically were not comfortable to walk on barefoot, so you needed deck shoes. Most modern decks, barefoot is the most comfortable.
What are you doing bossing boys around telling them what and what not to sleep in? If they can stuff their sack in that duffel along with the rest of their gear, let them! I wouldn't have a scout waste a dime on the store unless Mamma isn't letting him out of the house with his own sheet and blanket. Remember, $ wasted on gear = one less coffee they may buy you later! If they want their summertime sleeping bag allow it.
You are an HA organizer, not a drill instructor. Let the scouts know it will be hot and they might want to condition for that. If it's going to be a hot evening where you are, send them a quick e-mail that it might might be a good night to try sleeping in the gear they plan to take on the trip. They should practice unpacking and repacking it ... just like you do with the backpack that you surely keep at the end of your bed.
As for the sleeping bags, we have to fly there. Some of these scouts have very large, car camping sleeping bags. I REALLY don't want everyone checking a bag when they can take everything in a carry-on. We fly on the day our trek starts. Lost luggage would be a nightmare. So, I don't want them taking gear that has to be checked. Those cheap fleece sleep sacks seem to be the answer.
Thanks!
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When you're on the boat, are you required to be barefoot? I believe I read that captains don't allow sandals or water shoes. Those are just for on-shore at base and our day in Key West.
I'm recommending the Wal Mart fleece sleep sacks and not allowing sleeping bags since it will be too hot for those. Is this a good idea?
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I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV (or the internet), but I'm assuming the court order only applies to the 2 parents. I can't imagine it's enforceable on the camp.
It can be used to say the mother is not authorized to pick up the child. It's a little more questionable if the mother can be there during camp.
This might have to be resolved by going back to court if the mother is in violation of the court order.
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2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
Don't know where @Oldscout448 is hearing his rumblings, but I am hearing mine from several Facebook groups for Arrowmen. ( or shall I say Arrowfolk?) One person commented on how their SE has banned the OA from doing Arrow of Light and Cross Over ceremonies in their council. That led to a discussion about how the OA is going to change policies soon regarding regalia. I'm thinking at NOAC. Another FB group dedicated to ceremonies and has folks on the national OA committee discussed how to get symbolism without wearing regalia. They mentioned wearing color specific shirts for the ceremonies.
Then I heard something from a section level AIA officer. I asked him about the above, and he told me there is a discussion at National on the topic, and it appears the OA will eb moving away from regalia.
This is a mistake. Never yield to political rage mobs. They are never satisfied until you are destroyed.
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On 7/12/2018 at 4:22 PM, CalicoPenn said:
Oliver Perry also served on and commanded boats in the Mediterranean Sea, the West Indies and the Caribbean - I think he earned his sea chops.
It could also be said that Lake Erie is an arm of the sea.
Back in 1987, as part of the America's Cup competitions, the Heart of America, sponsored by the Chicago Yacht Club and practicing on Lake Michigan, competed in the Louis Vuitton Cup. The rules of the America's Cup required all boats to practice on the sea. The Heart of America went to the New York Supreme Court and got the court to agree that because of it's connection to the St. Lawrence Seaway, Lake Michigan is an arm of the sea and therefore the Heart of America was practicing, for the intents of the America's Cup, on a sea. If Lake Michigan is an arm of the sea because of its connection to the St. Lawrence Seaway via Lake Ontario, then surely Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Lake Huron and Lake Superior is an arm of the sea. And if these lakes are all arms of the sea, then surely lakes like Lake St. Clair, Lake Nipigon, Lake Winnebago, Lake Nipissing and Lake Simco, which are all connected to the Great Lakes via river systems, are all arms of the sea. And if that's the case, the any other lake connected via river systems connected to the Great Lakes - either directly or through other connections, are arms of the sea.
And if that's the case, then we can take it to its ridiculous extreme by saying that Lake Nokomis in Minnesota is an arm of the sea because it is connected to Minnehaha Creek which is a tributary of the Mississippi River and the Mississippi River and Lake Michigan are connected via rivers in Illinois and a canal that connects the river system to the lake.
This is like Otter's speech in Animal House defending the Deltas.
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On 7/8/2018 at 5:33 PM, Chisos said:
Looks like a great time. We're thinking about putting in for 2020, probably either 2 Coral Reef Sailing or 1 Sea Exploring adventure. (probably will have 14-18 participants). @69RoadRunner I"m looking forward to hearing about Sea Exploring when y'all get back! Sounds like @mashmaster had a great time...it'll be hard to decide which one we would prefer.
Will do. We just got back from summer camp.
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2 hours ago, walk in the woods said:
Not if you know the secret password to the back door of the trading post!
That password is, "Two of them haven't showered all week!"
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Earplugs. Baby wipes.
Apparently a margarita machine is frowned upon.
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That's not the norm at the camp we've been attending for years. We go next week.
Whoever thought that a group that I'm guessing was 99% boys would dance clearly knows nothing about boys.
Remembering that you're dealing with volunteers or poorly paid staff, give your feedback to the people in charge at the camp. Be constructive.
I'd pick a different camp next year.
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Wagons are a gateway drug to go-karts.
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4 hours ago, bearess said:
My boyfriend is accompanying my son to residential summer camp. He’s filled in all the paperwork, etc— but should I give the camp and Cubmaster a heads up that he isn’t my son’s Dad?!? I would feel awkward doing so, at this point, but I’d rather be clear upfront, if needed. Or does it not matter?
The Cubmaster should know the facts of the situation. As others mentioned above, there are BSA rules that apply. I'm sorry it creates a difficult situation, but it's not fair to the leader in charge at camp not to know the situation.
I hope he has a great time at camp!
Our Sea Base Sea Exploring Report
in Camping & High Adventure
Posted
The scouter who signed us up is no longer with our troop. I don't believe he even checked with anyone, he just assumed we'd want that one, so I don't know what the lottery situation was like.
While it increases the cost per person, I still recommend going with the least amount of people you can or pray for perfect weather. It gets hot, cramped and stinky down below.