69RoadRunner

One of my scouts annually goes to a camp for kids with diabetes.  They've already cancelled one of their sessions.  One of my ASMs was told Northern Tier, where we're going this summer (hopefully) will likely be making a decision in a couple of weeks.

When Philmont closed, troops could transfer to another HA camp.  I assume this year if 1 closes, they'll all close.

We've already committed to Sea Base in 2021, so we can't postpone NT to 2021.

If this happens, boy is it going to be a hit to BSA at a really bad time.

The problem National might have is, right now, they don't know how long this is going to last. It's difficult to know what kind of extension is necessary.

They could start with some kind of extension and indicate that they will adjust as necessary.  There's not much scouts can do except for independent MB work and virtual meetings with MB counselors.

I just received this email.

43 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I think it could be done in smaller chunks maybe.  That is a lot of mulch, yooza

There are 70 bags per pallet.  We put 3 pallets in each Ryder truck with 2 forklifts.  We have 8 Ryder trucks and a chase vehicle with a total of 6-8 people per team.

With that, we start Friday afternoon and go until dark.  Then we go from dawn until dusk Saturday.  A couple of times we finished on Sunday.

When I joined the troop, they were selling like 16,000.  It was too much as the troop got a little smaller, so we shrank our  flyer delivery area.  This is an amazing process.  We have parents who have a delivery business with Amazon who used software to break deliver out into the ideal for 210 bags per truck.

Most sales come from the flyers that scouts deliver to homes. Some come from an email of past customers. A little comes from scouts making individual sales.

We calculate the profit.  Committee reserves some for general troop operations. Then we take the total person hours worked and divide that into the rest of the profit.  That creates an hourly rate.

Scouts earn Scout Bucks for the hours they work plus any person they bring with them to help.  If you work both flyer delivery and mulch delivery, you're eligible for a camp stipend.

If you bring help and work the full time, you won't pay for anything all year.  You'll even have some left over for high adventure trips.

So losing this will be a big hit and culture change for the upcoming year.  Scouts will have to pay for activities. But we'll survive.

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

Here's an interesting question I just received.  A scout who's Eagle project was scheduled for a couple weeks from now, and then turns 18 a few weeks later.  Where does he stand.

My best guess is that all sorts of rules are going to be waived everywhere as a result of this crisis, and this is going to be one of them.  But we just won't know right away.

There are higher immediate priorities, but this is something that needs to happen.  I can understand if they're discussing it but can't announce a policy because this situation is changing so frequently and so quickly.

Hoping for the best for that scout.

6 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Could you do it like out Ship, does?  We have each scout that sells deliver their own mulch.  We have a trailer that they can borrow.

We sold over 12,000 bags. We usually use 8 Ryder trucks. 

Well, now we've canceled our mulch delivery.  It will cause a hit to the troop financially, but there's no other way.  The governor of VA just banned gatherings of 100 or more people.  CDC recommends 50.  

This situation is so fluid.  It's the right decision.

Our CO, which is our homeowners association, approved us to do our fundraiser delivering our mulch orders.  We are keeping delivery teams small and where possible, mostly the same family.  We are taking great precautions to prevent teams from interacting and we have a nurse who can screen everyone.

The person at the HOA who is our contact is also a registered nurse.

All other activities are canceled through April.  We have thousands of bags of mulch on order.

This was NOT an easy decision.  Delivery is Friday and Saturday of next week.  If we have to cancel/postpone due to things getting substantially worse, we will, but that would be difficult.

6 hours ago, awanatech said:

Even if the Council or National want to cancel their activities, they do not control unit activities. That would fall more to the CO. If they did control the units in that way, I bet it wouldn't matter if it were just the adults delivering mulch.  It would still be a unit activity.

We're working with out CO on this. We don't anticipate a problem with that.

8 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Roundtable

 

As we have no districts, the employee-run meetings have been cancelled in the Cleveland area.

Ah, gotcha. We had Roundtable tonight.  It will be virtual next month.

44 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Got ours. No RT tonight.

Forgive my ignorance, what's RT?

We plan on having our mulch delivery Friday and Saturday of next week.  We're pretty much at a point of no return.  We can keep people in small groups as there's one truck driver and a chase driver with scouts and usually another adult.  Typically there will be groups of 6-8 people.

We usually cater it with BBQ Saturday evening, but I think we'll tell people they need to bring their own lunch and dinner.

We're currently planning on canceling everything else as directed. 

Just got this.

As always, your safety and the safety of all our members, volunteers, and employees is our top priority. We know there are questions and concerns about how COVID-19, commonly known as the coronavirus, could affect local Scouting programs. After much discussion by National Capital Area Council’s Executive board, it has been decided that all in-person Council and District events, activities, and meetings between Friday, March 13 and Thursday, April 30, 2020 will be postponed or cancelled. This decision has been made out of an abundance of caution and concern for the health of our Scouts, Scouters, and their families. Further, NCAC strongly suggests that individual Scout units follow this policy. The final decision on continued unit activities will be the responsibility of the unit committee in consultation with their chartered organization and, in some cases, their meeting facilities until such time as new guidance is issued by the CDC. We strongly encourage that districts, units, and council committees consider using technology to continue with as many of their normally scheduled meetings and events as possible. Free or low-cost options include freeconferencecall.com, Skype, and Google Hangouts. At this time, the Marriott Scout Service Center and Scout Shops remain open for business. If you have meetings at the MSSC, please consider if they can be handled via phone or email instead of in-person. We will be distributing additional information later this afternoon. In the meantime, if you have any questions please let me know.

We have our mulch fundraiser delivery Friday and Saturday of next week.  We have to deliver thousands of bags of mulch that people ordered and paid us.  Our concern is Council or BSA suspending all events.  If this happens after we place the order with the mulch company and before we deliver, there will be no choice but to have adults delivering the mulch without scouts.

We can't leave the mulch at the community pool and we have to pay for the mulch.

Any other event we could cancel, but it's simply not possible with this.

1. 18 year old cannot tent with those under 18, I believe.  The 18 year old can count as youth for the ratio purposes (need more youth than adults) but not YPT.

2. If you have an odd number of youth, you can either take a 3 person tent or 1 youth can tent alone.  We had a youth tent alone. Use your judgment, but typically an older youth would make the best choice.

3. I don't think they'll prevent you, but try to not have the youth sleep with a parent. It's part of the "this is their trip and you're on vacation" aspect of Philmont.  

Female must be solo.  18 year old I believe could tent with another adult.

You have an unusual situation, but YPT rules must be followed.  Since you have so many necessary solo tents, I'd take a 3 person tent for the youth to at least eliminate 1 solo.

Some campsites are cramped, but not as bad as people led me to believe. You can make it work. The worst part of site selection for me was that there is no such thing as a level spot.  😉

2 hours ago, TMSM said:

I teach hammock camping at our council training event every year - here is a deck that I use

Hammock_101_.pdf

Thanks for sharing.  I'm debating if this hammock will be a relaxation only thing or if I want to get an underquilt and hammock tarp.

20 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I always sleep "straight" on my hammock, I can't see how I'd do it at a 30 degree angle in my hammock, which looks much like 69RoadRunner's, but without the mozzie net. I'm a side sleeper though, and so I tuck my knees in one side, and feet on the other, and works for me, I'm not bananaing at all, in fact the curve of the hammock helps my head stay level. I'd always assumed that the "30 degree rule" was for those tropical island hammocks with a bar at each end holding it out, but as always happy to be shown the error of my ways.

Last time I hammocked, on Brownsea Island [gratuitous name drop], we had to put a piece of hessian between the straps of the hammock and the trees to protect them.

 

This is all new to me. The one I bought has a foot box on the diagonal. I think it requires the hammock to be asymmetrical.  I'm really only in the research phase as my hammock just arrived. I'm thinking of taking it to Northern Tier, but just for relaxing in camp, not really for sleeping.  I'm not sure what NT's rules are for sleeping in a hammock, but I've been told taking one is allowed.

If you look at the video for the Eldorado on the Warbonnet web site, it shows that you sleep on a diagonal to take advantage of their foot box and sleep closer to flat.  I'm also a side sleeper, which will likely be the greatest challenge to sleeping in a hammock.  Maybe I can adjust to back sleeping.  Maybe I'll be able to get comfortable side sleeping in it.  It might just be a thing to relax in and read a book.  The integrated bug net was a must-have in my shopping.

I just got this hammock to try out.  When I've tried hammocks, I didn't realize you're supposed to lay on a diagonal to be flat rather than bent.

Like so many things, getting the hammock leads to more purchases if you want to do it best.  A tarp and underquilt are ideal add-ons.  And as with anything, you can do things at different price points.

For the trees, you could use the Philmont bear line technique of using sticks between the straps and trunk.  If the same trees used by thousands of Philmonters every year, year after year, can handle that, I think trees can handle occasional hammock use.

Low price, light, compact inflatable pad:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FP4Z3RZ?pf_rd_p=ab873d20-a0ca-439b-ac45-cd78f07a84d8&pf_rd_r=RGJVVEYHF6N48XK114H6

Lightweight, compact non-mummy down sleeping bags:

https://smile.amazon.com/Naturehike-Sleeping-Lightweight-Camping-Backpacking/dp/B076DW86W3/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=backpacking+quilt&qid=1582290323&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzN0M1VFBGWkxSSkxPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzQyNTg3RkZGWUNIQ0ZXSlpFJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5NTkzNDkzM0xQS1dTQ01aTENNJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

https://smile.amazon.com/AEGISMAX-Sleeping-Rectangular-Envelope-Backpacking/dp/B074M6DB12/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?cv_ct_cx=backpacking+quilt&keywords=backpacking+quilt&pd_rd_i=B074M6DB12&pd_rd_r=e5bd4c2a-2e02-4d53-808f-10b716c5cd48&pd_rd_w=tTUlP&pd_rd_wg=mXYxS&pf_rd_p=a6d018ad-f20b-46c9-8920-433972c7d9b7&pf_rd_r=5CP1Z40KZZ6W03HCF1NV&psc=1&qid=1582290539&s=sporting-goods

Lightweight, compact tent:

https://smile.amazon.com/Naturehike-VIK-Person-Tent-White/dp/B07PNB28V3?ref_=ast_bbp_dp

I have no experience with these.  If you follow Homemade Wanderlust on YouTube, Dixie is going to try some of these items on her next thru-hike.

What's your budget?  Can you sleep on a closed cell foam pad or want inflatable? What temperature conditions?

There are backpacking quilts if you don't like mummy bags.  As with most things, you get what you pay for.  A nice down bag/quilt will last longer than a cheap synthetic.  Down will compress much more than synthetic for travel, too.

Backpacking inflatable pads are more comfortable than CCF, compress more but are more expensive.

You can fit a down bag/quilt and an inflatable pad in a plastic grocery bag with room to spare.

20 hours ago, Jackdaws said:

I also expect some snide comments from people to the scouts who are out there currently trying to sell camp cards.  You know the whole " why should I pay for an organization who abuses kids? " or something to that effect.  It is not the scouts fault and their adults are forced to step in and try to get them to move along.  

Sigh. 

We just modified our mulch fundraiser flyer to indicate that all funds stay with our troop.

It's a hit to scouting, even though it was inevitable.  I think the YPT changes they've made are overall, very good and probably the best we could get.  

This won't be helpful for membership.  I hope we can weather the storm and come out stronger.  

8 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Only on tents with pole sleeves. LOL, Yes, I forgot to mention I don’t like backpacking tents with pole sleeves. My first tent with pole sleeves taught me to stay away from them because the inside of the tent gets wet while setting up. Freestanding tents also handle strong 3 am wind and rain better. 

Barry

Not all that set up inner net first have pole sleeves.  Many use clips.

Every tent, really every piece of backpacking gear has compromises.  Many trekking pole tents are very good in bad weather.  Mids in particular are very good in bad weather.  My son's Duomid sheds wind very well.  With the trekking pole connector, it also moves the poles to the walls, freeing up space.  Compromise is a little less headroom on the ends, but more headroom when sitting up.  It's also very easy to set up.  Make a rectangle staking the 4 corners.  Insert the poles.  Stake the door guyline and you're done.

But HYOH (Hike Your Own Hike) as they say.  Good that we have choices.

15 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I don't think these will catch on with Scouts themselves. As @Eagledad notes, Scouts don't use trekking poles well, and typically don't like them. Another reason is that tents like this are difficult to pitch without practice, because they are not freestanding. Last, these tents can be delicate, and as @Eagledad said, youth tents need to have some strength. These tents have likely very thin nylon to achieve those weights. 

I used to recommend Kelty's Salida 2, which is a two person tent. It worked well for all but the biggest Scouts, and it had a very reasonable price tag at around $150-$180.  It seems that they have discontinued that model. 

The design is very similar to Tarptents Notch (1 man) or Saddle 2 (2 man) https://www.tarptent.com/product/notch/ . https://www.tarptent.com/product/saddle-2/. I own a Saddle two, and I like the design. If my Saddle two ends up damaged beyond repair, I'd probably buy another tarptent, but that REI is a solid tent, and for tents for ultralight backpacking, that's not a terrible price. 

Most scouts should just use the Philtents at Philmont.  Younger and less experienced scouts would be happier with traditional tents for their own tent.

I posted this mostly for adults who want their own tent, but my son used a silnylon MLD Duomid with matching inner at Philmont.  He and another skinny scout fit OK in it.  

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I have certain requirements for backpacking tents and I liked the REI. The ONLY reason I wouldn't consider this REI is because it's not self standing. Self standing tents set up faster (in the heavy rain) and don't rely on firm ground to stay up at 3:00 am in heavy winds and rain. What I like a lot about the REI are the doors and vestibule on each side. Multiple doors allow a quick entry by both occupants at the same time instead of one occupant waiting on the other while blocking entry taking off muddy boots. The vestibule on each side provides a dry place outside the tent for each occupant to store muddy boots and wet rain gear. Its a nice tent.

 

An advantage of most non-freestanding tents is that they set up "dry".  Freestanding tents typically have you set up the inner mesh first.  If it's raining, then the inside of your tent gets wet.

All single wall and most double wall trekking pole tents can be set up as one piece (or the fly first) so the inside is dry.

It is true that they require more skill and practice to set up.  They're for adults and older, experienced scouts.

A two person tent is good with doors on both sides, I agree.  A single person tent can get by with just 1.