69RoadRunner

2 hours ago, le Voyageur said:

Suggest giving Blue Ridge Mountain Council (Roanoke, Va.) a call, ask for their Reservation Program Director.....she might be willing to release the canoes you need, but no promises here since I'm not aware of any current fees.  If that should occur,  Foster Falls is fairly close, and a run to Allisona  on the New would be a good start....

We've gone to Camp Ottari every year I've been with the troop and are doing Powhattan next summer, so we're familiar with the BRMC. 

It's about a 5 hour drive for us.  I was hoping to find something a bit closer, but I've been looking at Claytor Lake.  We had scouts go there for summer camp with BRMC several years ago.  I had to work hard to keep a straight face when we had scouts get the motorboating merit badge.

We're in Northern, VA and I was wondering if anyone had good experiences with canoe outfitters in the region we could use for Northern Tier training.

I've found some for on the rivers in the area.  There are also some where you can just paddle around like Burke Lake, which isn't much of a lake.

Thanks!

There are lots of challenges for BSA.  Financial challenges during a time of decreased membership is a big one.

Society changes and what people enjoyed decades ago sometimes goes out of favor.  Look at bowling alleys as one example in this country.  It was very popular when I was a kid and it could be tough to get a lane to practice sometimes.  Now many of them have closed.

Scouting has always competed against other activities.  Will it offer something that draws in enough youth?  We also have the stain of the child abuse scandals.  That doesn't help.

I'm doing what I can to help keep it going.  I'm not sure if national leadership will succeed.

On 11/20/2019 at 8:30 AM, mrkstvns said:

That site has some good discussion!

I like that he gets into situations like how to hard-pack a platform so you can take off skis or snowshoes in the winter, how sand is more of a sterile environment (not biologically rich) so less suitable than a hole in the forest, and how you can "roll a rock" in a hard-baked surface.  

I was sort of thinking he might discuss the "smear technique", which might be useful in a very rocky, arid area --- you just do your business on top of the rocks, then take a stick and smear it around on the rocks. The idea is that while there's no bio action to break down your waste, there is plenty of sun that can do the job for you.  

Skurka is an expert on backpacking and his site has lots of good info.

https://andrewskurka.com/tag/how-to-poop-in-the-outdoors-woods-perform-backcountry-bidget/

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

That Stuffing with chicken and cranberries sounds like a real winner!   You wouldn't happen to have a recipe you could share?

2 boxes of Stove Top

1 can of chunk chicken

Package of Craisins (dehydrated cranberries).

Boil the amount of water required for the 2 boxes (no butter at Philmont, but you can use some oil).

Take pot off the stove, pour everything in and stir.

You can vary the amount of chicken and Craisins.

Our CM made this and it was gone very quickly.  She makes great pumpkin bread.

Looks like I can't upload the pumpkin bread due to the 10mb limit.

At our Iron Chef competition, the adults do lunch.  This is also an activity that Webelos visit.  The scout patrols compete for Breakfast, Dinner and Dessert.

We enjoy cooking and eating well plus we try to set an example of things the scouts can do when they plan.

Our secret ingredient was cranberries.  I made 3 things, chili, fresh cranberry applesauce and since the favorite Philmont meal is stuffing with chicken and cranberries, I made it to demo for the scouts who didn't do Philmont.

The other adults made red beans and rice, flank steak, beef and noodles and pumpkin bread all with cranberries.  Since we had Webelos visiting, we made a non-cranberry mac and cheese.

Much of it was made in dutch ovens.  The flank steak was made over the fire on our cowboy cooking setup.

The winning scout recipes were a breakfast casserole, bacon wrapped pork chops and stuffing and a brownie dessert.  I didn't get good pics of their meals as I was preparing my lunch while they did breakfast and it was dark when dinner was done.

More pics.

I'm seeing the reasoning on the Kindle.  Points taken.

As for the gloves, I haven't picked anything specific, but after the kayaking experience, I think I'll be getting something.

We're doing Ely Base at BSA NT.  The packing list includes this for the dry bags:  "25-30 Liter dry bag for clothing and other gear – this will be packed in our gear packs".  So they provide the big gear bags.  At Philmont, I required our crew to put clothes and sleeping bags in dry stuff sacks.  I then got them all trash compactor bags to line their backpacks and roll down for double protection.  I would take a similar approach to NT.  Keep those individual dry bags for clothes and sleeping bags and put that inside the large 25-30 liter dry bag.

None of us have been to NT.  I'm taking the list they provide and trying to fine tune it based on the experience of others.

5 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

I hate to be critical, but I can't help but laugh at the irony of this statement given the rest of your post.  You claim to want to "save some weight and bulk" and then follow it up with a wash list of practically every unnecessary piece of overpriced outdoor techno-trash that an imaginitive huckster could dream up to sell you.  

 

OK, I'm not duplicating tents.  It's either/or. I don't know what NT uses, but mine is likely much lighter.  Even if you add the chair and Kindle, I'll bet I would be lighter than the NT tent alone.

We need something to eat with, so how would the bowls be overpriced techno-trash when they're dirt cheap and we already have them?  Same for the gloves?

NT specifically suggests a Crazy Creek chair.  What I'm asking about is lighter.

NT also suggests a book and my question is about something much lighter and as I said, it would require no charging as the battery lasts 6 weeks.

We're going to NT next year. The scouts can use the NT tents.  I was thinking of taking my Locus Gear Hapi Grande and inner to save some weight and bulk.

The Grande version (not on their web site, but you can special request) is relatively spacious for a 2 person, lightweight tent.  We have 2 crews going and will likely have 2 adults in one crew and 2 or 3 in the other.

Any suggestions on dry bags for each crew member?

Is the Helinox Chair Zero I took to Philmont a good idea?

They say to bring a book. I think a Kindle Paperwhite might be a good option. It's light, waterproof and the battery will last the entire trip.

How about paddling gloves?  I went kayaking in Norway last summer and got a blister on one hand.  No gloves.

We used Fozzilz Bowls at Philmont as crew gear.  Would these work well at NT?

Filter can be a patrol item.

Hand sanitizer would be a good idea.

I got some Amazon tarps for our patrols to start using along with some poles but we haven't used them yet.  I'm going to have them start next month at our Iron Chef campout.

At Gettysburg, we camped next to a troop that had this circus tent metal pole tarp.

I bought a backpacking tarp that was on clearance and a bug bivy to try out but haven't had a chance yet.

8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Perhaps.  I suspect there is a rethinking of how Scouting is funded coming.  I think we all noticed the comment about council program fees being capped at the national fee.  I can certainly see in a few years:

• $60 to national
• $60 to council
• $60 to the unit

I wouldn't be surprised to see $15 a month in fixed Scouting costs in a few years.  

Yearly will bring in more revenue.  People who drop out still pay the full amount compared to monthly.  Plus there's the processing costs.

I suspect that vegan shoes use a lot more petroleum based materials than leather shoes.  Pick your poison.

12 hours ago, DuctTape said:

nice! Next move is to do it over an open fire. In some aspects it is easier as there is more room; the pots/pans aren't jammed in next to each other and you can have 3 ppl cooking simultaeneously.  If you can't have a fire tho, I suppose you are stuck with the 3 burner.

I'm not sure the fire pit was large enough for 3 pots.  We also needed to cook the beans in a skillet and of course the schnitzel in a skillet.

We do have a nice cowboy fire cooking setup for grilling or hanging a pot over a fire.  It will likely be used at Iron Chef next month.

10 minutes ago, MattR said:

Since you made everything else from scratch, try getting a spaetzle maker and making your own. Some 20 years ago someone from Germany brought us one. It's easy and tastes good. We're still using the same one. 

I looked at that, but I just don't see me using one often enough to justify it.  This was the first time I've has spaetzel.

I don't need more house clutter.  ☺️

14 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Sorry I wasn't there. I never lament the lack of beer. But, I would have definitely lamented the lack of 1919!

Something like that would have made an interesting alternative, but also perhaps a bit of a tease.

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

Das sieht lecker aus!

You are a more ambitious camp chef than me.  I'd probably just grill a few bratwursts and serve 'em up with sauerkraut and some good German mustard.  Never tried serving them on a scout campout though....mostly because I'd have to leave the beer at home, and Oktoberfest without beer is like a night without moonshine!

Sigh, the lack of beer was a frequent lament.

To be honest, this wasn't that hard to do.  Adults have a three burner stove, so it was just a matter of thinking through the best order.  We started the applesauce first.  Then the green beans and spaetzel.  The pork was really quick, so it was last.  The only thing that slowed us was not having enough pots to run all 3 burners at once (applesauce, beans and spaetzel).

We try to set an example for the scouts to go beyond basic meals.  Plus we like to eat well.

I soooooooooooooooooo wanted to make beer cheese, but alas, the rules say no.

So, this weekend, I, along with our 2 other adults, made pork schnitzel, spaetzel, German green beans and homemade applesauce.  Lots of butter involved here.

For the pork schnitzel, get thin sliced boneless pork chops.  Slice off any fat and pound even thinner.  Then dredge in flour.  Next in egg/milk.  Finally in Italian bread crumbs.  Sautée in butter 2-3 minutes for each side.  Slice of lemon.

Cook the spaetzel to the directions on the bag.  Add butter.

Get fresh, trimmed green beans.  Boil for just a few minutes.  Drain.  Sautée a small, chopped onion and either cooked, chopped bacon or prosciutto (we used the latter) in butter until the onion is soft.  Add the green beans and stir for about 5 minutes.

My wife has a handy dandy Pampered chef apple peeler, corer slicer that I brought.  Use that on about 5 granny smith apples.  In a pot, put the apple, 3/4 cup water, 1/4 cup sugar and 1/2 tsp cinnamon.  Simmer for 15-20 minutes.  Mash, but leave chunky.

This piece of pork was very tender despite some charring.  The other pieces were golden brown.

41 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Easy solution - keep activities at the unit level, avoid the WB snobs AND the uniform police

We don't do that camporee anymore (it was canceled this year due to lack of interest).  The scouts didn't enjoy it and it was the only activity I went to because I had to, not because I wanted to.

They crammed us all together, so you were sleeping in a tent, but not camping.  A troop next to us got up at 4:30 to start breakfast.  Well, the adults did.  I got up and informed them of what time it was and the lack of sound insulation in my tent.  I almost asked if they were cooking a <bleeping> turkey, but just went back to my tent.

We do the Klondike Derby each year, but that's it for District level stuff.  My desire to burn a week of PTO for a Jamboree is below zero.

I suspect I'm not an ideal wood badge candidate.

Please be like the Woodbadgers who use the training to help them be better leaders in the troop.

Please don't be like the Woodbadgers who see it as a justification to be condescending to non-Woodbadgers.  I encountered a few of these types at Camporees.  One simply couldn't accept that my entire group there was first and second year scouts plus 1 older scout with special needs as a reason why the adults had to provide more teaching assistance than ideal.

Don't ever tell me not to put on the foil!

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

True, but layers are layers and are better than just the pad. As thicker pads work better than thinner pads, so will your clothes. Not all your clothes, just the ones you are wearing that day.

Barry

I'm sure it helps some.  I just think the safe thing is to know your pad has the right R value for conditions and not rely on anything else.

With comparable quality, a quilt will be lighter and cheaper than a bag, but not everyone will like it.  There are hybrids that fully unzip to quilt mode, too.

I liked my Feathered Friends quilt at Philmont this year.  It was actually warmer in quilt mode than in bag mode.