Jameson76

Weird part was the camporee wasn't at the restaurant, it was at a church nearby the Restaurant. We got up there and found all the garbage in there and the troops decided that it'd be a good service project for us to take the garbage down to the city dump. So we took the half-a-ton of garbage, put it in the back of an SUV, took shovels and rakes and implements of destruction, and headed on toward the city dump. Well, we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across the dump sayin', "this dump is closed on account of the camporee" and we'd never heard of a dump closed for a camporee, and with tears in our eyes, we drove off into the sunset lookin' for another place to put the garbage. We didn't find one till we came to a side road, and off the side of the side road was another fifteen-foot cliff, and at the bottom of the cliff was another pile of garbage. We decided that one big pile was a lower impact on the environment than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up, what with it being more than 4 feet and us not having climbing gear, we decided to throw ours down. That's what we did We all drove back to the church, had a Camporee Dutch Oven dinner that couldn't be beat, had a campfire with skits and whatnot, went to sleep, and didn't get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from Officer Obie....and you can sort of guess that is spiraled out of control from there.

Not too many years ago at summer camp we had something like that happen. We had a new Dad who was keeping up with the first year scouts. They have a 2 hour program in the morning, request is to at least have 1 leader there if there are any behavior or attention concerns, staff brings them to the center of the area, they go back to the patrol they are working with. Basically the leaders sort of hang out, chat, do e-mails, some do some work, etc. He came back to the site and told us how one person who was WB staffer, on their Council training staff, etc etc and felt as there were adult leaders there, training must be done. She was very insistent and persistent. Their version of discussions and making sure all were graced by their knowledge. The area director was not really sure what to do about this. After comments to the camp, on the second day the program director stepped in, if they wanted to do training, that was fine but they needed to do it in another area and the PD would be glad to make the announcement at the morning leader meeting. Just needed to know the subject so interested folks could attend. Nobody was interested.

Did the event book include twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored Glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of Each one explainin' what each one was?

District has a winter event, we have stopped attending. Basically run by the adults in the OA, complete with (I kid you not) 20 page handbook. Troops and patrols are told what they should bring, how they should dress, are evaluated as such. I asked one time why not send out a list of events, patrols bring what they think they need? Blank stares. My final straw was when the SPL and I went to the Friday meetings and there was a 20 minute diatribe on Safety. Yes be safe, but Good Lord. Then another 15 minutes health lodge processes. MY SPL leaned over and asked if we couldn't just handle stuff at the campsite if needed, I said you bet. In the 45 minute meeting maybe 5 minutes about the program. Don't get me started on the convoluted formulas, secret calculations, and mystery awarded points to determine the "winner" of the camporee. Funniest thing was at all the assemblies, etc the only ones talking were the OA adults, they had actual Scouts standing there but none of them we (I guess??) deemed worthy to be in charge. Guess with all their WB and OA training they missed the whole youth led stuff

I came to one council one to do an event only, was surprised that in an 1,800 acre reservation they had the troops all corralled in the big field when there were acres (literally) and acres of land they could have used. There was another whole camp they didn't use. Looked like some sort of really bad festival. Each troop have like 100 SF and the next troop guidelines were right there. Not sure what the thinking is for these

We have started wearing red epaulettes, Eagle mentor pins, and multiple temporary patches just to tweak the UP...sorry ID. Granted they will need to come find us in the woods, but our spirit is there

Easy solution - keep activities at the unit level, avoid the WB snobs AND the uniform police

A lot lot lot of focus on Cubs. Looking on my council website; picture of a Cub, Lots of Cub Training, Lot of Spook-o-ree stuff. When they put in Tiger Cubs in 82, a good number of us thought that was a bit much. As many have noted, Cubs is less a fun program and more of a slog. We have had many boys over the years that bailed on Cubs / Webelos but came into Scouts. They were just tired of the same thing over and over. Input also is that 5th graders are not really into the family camping, they want to build fires and tell crude jokes The BSA's strength and distinction in the market place is the Outdoor Focus. If a unit does this, they will recruit and retain Scouts. The STEM stuff, Schools do it better. Duty to God, the Church youth groups likely has the better program. Leadership and independent thinking, learning life skills outdoors, yeah, THAT is what we do and what we SHOULD be focusing on. National is doing it's level best to limit the risk and activities, but many units plunge ahead. They have also WAAAAY over sold the Eagle rank. Yes it is good and yes it is a long term project, but that is not WHY we are running units, that is not the reason. Ranks advancement is a by product of good program, not the reason for it.

Not to be all technical, pretty sure some of the basics were not covered. Maybe the middle on, they all looked over 21, not sure that have an understanding of the rank. - if conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative, who is not affiliated with the unit, must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so. - There shall be no fewer than three and no more than six members, all at least 21 years old. They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, crew, or ship. - A board of review shall not occur until after the local council has verified the application. In the case of a board of review under disputed circumstances, the council must verify all the information that is not in dispute before the board of review is scheduled

Travelers listed the extension of the statute of limitations in New York as an exposure on their 10Q (that is a quarterly report mandated by the United States federal Securities and Exchange Commission, to be filed by publicly traded corporations recently, not sure if that is specifically related to coverage they carry on BSA or possibly other youth / religious groups

Now there's some cash outlay....golfing. $500 for clubs (yeah I know cheap set), $50 for green fees, $20 for a dozen balls...not to mention fees at the 19th hole

Personally...will hike off into the sunset remembering the good times, content I provided the best program I was able to for the youth in the local unit.

Good luck with that

Just curious how this was marketed? I literally get every e-mail possible it seems from the District, Council, etc. Nothing from Council on this and nothing it seems on the Council Website or Social Media Is Anti-Bullying one the 8 sorry...now apparently myriad aims of Scouting?

Well let's do the math 2,500,000 (Youth / Leaders / All in / Rounded up for ease of math) @ $33 = $82,500,000 less 525,000 LDS folks departing (yes yes I know, they may not have paid the full fees, lot of neat deals made, but let's press on) 1,975,000 (remaining) @ $33 = $65,175,000 Basic projected shortfall of $17,325,000 OR $8.77 per remaining participant to cover. That does not factor in the insurance increase, Summit Bechtel Reserve Tax, Scouting Professional Pension shortfalls, liability to abuse cases holdback, and a myriad of other financial woes hanging around out there. $49 may be the number That would be close to $97MM in revenue

The question will be, or National will try to push, is what is that breaking point? Is it $50, is it $60?? When will the frogs in the water in the slowly warming pot say "Wow, it's getting HOT" and jump out of the pot?

Agree on the incomplete. As a unit we take the Eagle applications to the office, (pre-EBOR) then hang around until completed. We review them prior and even so, there is sometimes a date that does not work out right. We correct it right there. If we weren't there, I can see that application being put aside, e-mails sent (maybe), etc etc and it getting buried

The sobering part may be all the units that have NOT begun working through the math. They got the note but are assuming it will be another $10 - $12 increase. Suppose you are a NEW unit, just bee bopping along, planning for next year fun and adventures, etc etc. You know the fee is $33 now, you've got 10 Scouts and maybe 6 leaders, so you have the $528 ready, possibly hedged about $160 for the increase. BUT WAIT - you will actually need (worst case) $1,600 or an additional $1,072 in total. This will be a shock to the system. Also if it does go to worst case, now new Scouts will need to pony up a big chunk. If you join Tigers with your young-un, and want to be a leader, that will be maybe $200. More if there are Unit dues. Will be tough. Family Scouting will be replaced by Ghost Leaders. We'll sign up the minimum, everyone else is a visiting parent.

We are supposed to recharter around the first weekend of November. Concern is we will not know the fee until maybe a week prior. I know they have said we will hear something about 10/23, but that is the earliest. Our unit has about 100 Scouts and Leaders. Currently that is maybe $3,300 for recharter. If the fee goes to (and this is worst case) $100 per Scout (*Hey - still a bargain!!) we will need to somehow come up with another $6,700. Many families may decide not to continue. Will take a minute to sort all of this out and determine a path forward. Not good planning at all. Between the UNKNOWN FEE and the REVISED BACKGROUND CHECK FORM and the DEPARTURE OF THE LDS UNITS my assumption is that CSE Surbaugh's Bonus and those of the National Staff is clearly tied to how many leave the program 2019 to 2020

Nope, the Scout Executive of the Council is there to raise money first, insure no bad issues make it to the press, meet their own goals for their bonus plan. Waaay down the list is start new Scouting units. The local DE is more in tuned to that effort. The SE (or CEO in many councils) would not be bothered with that. Main help should be the district volunteer staff, but that effectiveness varies widely from district to district.

Only if it fits the already decided upon agenda

Didn't you mean - Twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, to be used as a Guide to Safe Scouting – even including some aerial photography.

Sometimes the large industrial washers and dryers do a good job. I have washed some of my synthetic bags that way. Did a down one hand wash and tumbled at the laundry

Read Green Bar Bill Hillcourt's books. That will help

Is there a creek or lake nearby you can use for fire, etc? Typically it's about 1 gallon per person per day. If you are staying maybe 48 hours (2 days) with 30 people, I would take 60 gallons. We have camped at sites that do not have potable water there, but it is accessible. So we can refill. Hard part for toting 30 gallons of water is the weight, weighs about 8 lbs per gallon.