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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. Folks arguing and debating the guides to uniform and what should and should not be worn (let's get a red epaulette thread fired up) is truly the definition of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Basically as @Double Eagle advised, we've got bigger fish to fry

    Wear the pin.  Enjoy

    • Upvote 3

  2. So...there are many entities within the BSA.  National (National and Regions) and then the Councils.  The suits are against BSA National (I believe), though likely the local councils were named in the suits.  Or, if the lawyers get enough clients "will" be named in the suits.

    With business type bankruptcy, and assuming Chapter 11 for reorganization and not Chapter 7 liquidation.  With Chapter 11 one of the first steps is to secure DIP (Debtor in Possession) financing so that National BSA can continue operations.  To be sure, not clear how Chapter 11 would effect the assets of the Boy Scouts.  Specifically Intellectual Property (Name BSA, ranks, images, Eagle Scout name, etc), also physical properties such as Philmont, Summit, and to some degree Northern Tier and Seabase.  I think more of the 2 latter HA bases may be leased, but could be wrong on that.

    The unknown will be the ripple effect if National BSA does go the bankruptcy route.  Will that cause local councils to go that route to protect their assets. Council offices, camps, etc.

    Whatever the course, will be messy.

  3. Anderson plans to file multiple lawsuits against the Boy Scouts on behalf of the victims and demands the organization hand over their files, including names of those accused of abuse

    7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

    Sounds like a prospect list.

    I thought the files were already out in a searchable database as a result of several previous lawsuit.  

    Wow - these guys are definitely looking for more clients - here is one from New York attorney.  They even list names from the files.  They seem to be casting a wide net for anyone else.


    Here is the searchable database



  4. This definitely look like a money play.  In no way discounting what happened to the youth and in no way excusing the way the BSA (National / Council / Local CO) handled these cases.  Challenge is there is liability in the way this was handled.  Problem is many of these go back (even in their admission) almost 80 years.  The lawyers typically state they want policies to change etc, which BSA has clearly done.

    This is grandstanding, nothing else.  If they have incidents in the last 10 years, after the more stringent YPT was rolled out, then you have a case that warrants attention.  The only reason to get wound up on the past ones is if BSA starts denying it happened.

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  5. Keep the trailer small.  We have an 80 person troop, camp with 30 - 40 most of the time.

    Trailer is (Interior) 7.5' L x 5.0' W x 5.5' H, single axle.  Double doors on the back.

    Shelves down one side and then the floor holds the large patrol boxes.  Can hold easily adult gear, the six patrol boxes, 7 tables (they fold), 8 tarps, and assorted random gear.  Trailer can be hauled with SUV's and does not need any special setup.  For summer camp we only haul trunks and it can take 18 - 20 of those.  We bring another trailer for additional trunks

    Main thing (as many have said) look at tongue weight, hauling weight, special brakes hook up etc.  Sort of like your basement, the larger the trailer the more stuff you will bring

    Don't fall into the trap of a trailer that cannot be hauled with the majority of vehicles the troop may have access to now AND going forward

  6. 11 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

    Please post 2-year Eagle plans for boys and girls on a short track.  We are seeking schedules and hints on things that need to be “worked from the start”, such as particular required merit badges to present timing pitfalls.

    So...not to do a disservice to the journey, and it is each Scout's journey, basic project management, if you have hard stop to achieve something you will need a plan.

    We had an older teen (15 and 8 months) join the troop a couple of years ago.  Mainly he wanted to attend high adventure with friends in the troop.  As he did attend one high adventure and then camp (as a "new" scout) we talked about what he wanted to do in Scouting.  Long story short, we backdated a plan for when HE would need to attain various ranks.  HE would have to do this, HE would need to attend our second summer camps to get enough optional merit badges, HE would need to serve in the leadership, HE would need to propose, plan, and perform a project.

    Fast forward, he is 18 in maybe 90 days.  He has earned his 21 merit badges, served as JASM in the troop and at summer camps, went to high adventure, went to outings, and just got his project approved.  Should wrap up before 18th birthday.

    It can be done if THEY want to earn it, see the value, and you can support the journey.

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  7. 55 minutes ago, bsaggcmom said:

    Our council banned this skit a few years back citing that it glorified bullying and hazing both of which are not allowed in scouts. 

    I am assuming you mean they banned the skit from summer camp performances and council events.  That is their event and they can do what they want.  What a troop does out in the woods and the mud and dark of the campfire ring is really up to that troop and their interpretation of the guideline of the BSA


  8. 13 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:


    You know an organization has too large a bureaucracy when  a key part of the mission statement, one of it's aims,  is changed and it take 5 years to get it in print. 

    Well...they've all been so busy justifying The Summit, whose got time for Mission Statements

  9. 11 hours ago, Treflienne said:


    has a great picture of Girl Scouts, wearing Girl Scout uniforms, holding their newly acquired Scouts BSA handbooks for girls.

    If I understand it correctly (and the article is a little confusing) a whole troop of girl scouts has joined the boy scouts.  They plan to finish up their GSUSA gold awards, and also work on Boy Scout ranks.

    Other than the co-branding issues that GSUSA will not doubt have conniptions over, the one phrase in the article was interesting:

    The group decided to merge with a Freetown boys because several girls had siblings in the group. 

    Not the units issue as this was written by the reporters.  If you were not familiar with BSA then your assumption would be that Boy Scouts is in fact now coed.  Merge would certainly imply one coed unit (and that may in fact be what they are doing in reality if separate on paper).


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  10. Changed with the rollout of revised YPT I believe back last year (Spring 2018).  Below is the official section.  Note "registered", so a 21 + leader and parent over 21 would not cut it

    Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided.

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  11. 7 hours ago, skeptic said:

    Why would anyone have an issue with this?  It was restricted due to a number of issues, both related to habitat and more importantly physical concerns.  Since that time, the physical requirements have been modified for participants and they have done major restorative and replacement trail work on the area of the tooth and its main route.  It, being one of the symbols of the ranch, and a visible challenge, I see no problem as long as they have put needed qualifications into place and do not stress the land around it beyond normal recovery.  Granted, I personally climbed the tooth from PTC twice, as well as a couple of other trails that were easily accommodating.  I also trekked across it in 1979 returning to the ranch at the end of a ten-day hike.  If all goes well, I will be there in June, but I will not try the hike, even if they were to allow it, as I am no longer physically qualified, and I realize that.  Like anything, we need to take personal responsibility for what we attempt physically, and I am too old and have had serious issues.  But, I am glad others may again have the opportunity, as it is part of the PTC/Ranch experience and the view is spectacular.



    I guess it's a way to promote and upsell.  Would be disappointing to be on day 8 of your trek and have to work around the families from PTC on their day hike.  Sort of diminishes the back country feel

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  12. So the news from Philmont is NOW... they are bringing back the Tooth of Time hike option for participants at Philmont Training Center (apparently was an option years back AND) adding this option for the Philmont Family Camp program.  So now you may well encounter families etc in the back country on the Tooth of Time.  Not sure how the stroller will do on the trail up, should be interesting.
    Not sure how I feel about that
    • Sad 1

  13. 26 minutes ago, KLB said:

    I am currently trying to rally a couple more parents to join the committe. However a vote out won’t do any good since she as the COR can veto it! 

    Sadly in your case, that is correct.  Votes would be symbolic at best.  The committee does not "elect" the CC, that is an appointed (or in you specific case anointed) position.  Unless the COR is good with the change, there is little the vote would do but further cause issues.  I would say the meeting between the COR and CC as they discuss the vote could be entertaining.

    As others have said the best course of action may be to move on to another pack or form a new one.  Unless the COR / CC / Chief cook and bottle washer wishes to voluntarily move aside, you are stuck.  Even if you got a new CC the former CC (now only COR) could still exert undue influence because it seems that control is what they want

  14. I also recall that bath / warm water thing was not the recommended treatment.  Gradually warm up, the dry heat on the core, warm drinks, etc.  We had some, while not hypothermic, but honestly just on the fringe one time.  It was like 0 degrees, in the southeast US mountains, and we from the deep south are not geared for such foolishness, we idled the bus, got the heater going full bore, and made a warming room.  The warm drinks did the best honestly.

    Also if you have a dead tauntaun nearby, and your lightsaber handy, you can cut it open and put the patient inside.  Granted you would need to be on a frozen planet for that to really work well, but it is an option

    • Haha 2

  15. 11 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

     When I first joined the troop there was a tradition of the adults sleeping together --- picture five guys in one of those Taj Mahal tents. 

    Man...that is a special kind of hell in my opinion.  On outings the adult tents (all singles) are spaced waaay apart.  Even at Philmont all the leaders tote their own tents.  The extra couple of pounds is well worth it.

    5 leaders in one tent "shudder"

  16. 20 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

    Sorry Liz, but your Scoutmaster would be well served to keep you away from camp...and to keep away any other adult who has the misguided notion that they would be welcome in camp so that they could be there "his first time if that's what he needs."

    No scout is well served by a parent in camp who can't, or won't, let her son try things and experience things on his own. It just ruins the camp experience for everyone and it undermines scouting's aims and methods (especially the patrol method, when you star counter-manding the instructions and leadership of the PL and SPL).  

    Sure, you know your own son best...so if he really is so anxious that he couldn't function in a patrol environment, then leave him home for his first year or so in scouting so that he has time to grow as an individual and to learn enough self confidence that he doesn't NEED mom helicoptering over him.

    If you are in camp so "he can hang out and help you with your task" then you are there for all the wrong reasons (and you really don't understand how summer camp works). Your role as an adult is to be in camp as a resource for the TROOP. As a scoutmaster, I would tell you that you are NOT welcome in camp if you aren't trained and you aren't there to help the scoutmaster, the SPL, and each and every scout in the troop.  And if you really think you're going to "let your son hang out and help you with your task" then I REALLY don't want you anywhere close to camp! Camp has scheduled activities and we expect the boys to take advantage of the opportunities that summer camp offers. One of the prime roles of adult scouters is to make sure the boys keep busy in their activities and that they are not sitting around idle in camp, and never, ever tagging along behind their mama like a 2-year old.

    A troop needs some adult leaders. But they need adults who are there for the entire unit and who are there to help the kids find ways to solve their own problems and to become confident, competent young men. A troop most certainly does NOT need a mom who is there "for her kid", getting underfoot, giving bad advice, and making the troop adapt to her ways. Don't embarass the troop, your son, and yourself.

    If you have an overly anxious child, do everyone a favor....stay home your first year.


    We always welcome LEADERS to be at camp and LEADERS who work within the troop matrix.  Parents are needed to drive and pickup from camp and wave at the parking lot, not be at camp for the week.

    Some leader stories

    • Had one leader that was in camp for the week.  He came to me on Sunday and advised he felt it better to leave as his son kept coming to him for things and was not participating as he should, he came back later in the week and it worked out well
    • Had one leader not in camp but was coming to get one of his sons at camp for an event, the other son was first year and we knew it would be a tough week, seeing dad in camp could be trouble.  We worked out the pickup time so younger son was at activities and same with the return the next day.  
    • Was at summer camp and a scout had an issue in the middle of the night, the Scout came into the leader pod and found the leader at camp for the week and NOT his dad who was in the next tent
    • We had a conversation with a leader in camp who was way too focused on his kid, was sort of treating summer camp as father / son time and the other 1,000 Scouts and leaders were just in the area.  We assigned the leader some specific tasks that were not where his son was, ended up being a good week
    • Had a somewhat serious issue with a Scout at camp, his dad was one of the leaders, the dad left the site as we worked it out.  He stayed out of the site that afternoon and did not even speak with his son about the issue until he and I talked through it that evening and what the consequences of those actions would be.  
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  17. Have you tried the single air mattress?  That works way better than a double / queen sized.  There are some smaller camp cots, not sure they are more comfortable.  Also have you tried the ENO or Hammock for sleeping?  Some find those better.

    As for going to bed early, I often (if not overly cold) just sit in front of my tent with a book and headlight and read.  If cooler I sit by the fire and just bank it / put out some of the coals when I go to bed.  Now I do sleep on a pad in a backpacking tent, so I enjoy the ground.  

  18. That is a tough road ahead

    Assuming the CC/COR also is embedded within your CO to some degree.  While the correct course of action is to work with the IH, they may not actually have any real concern as to what is going on with the unit.  Challenge is the IH appoints the COR, so you are into some circular logic with both COR and CC being the same person

    1) The Chartered Organization Representative (COR) is the direct contact between the unit and the Chartered Organization. This individual is also the organization's contact with the District Committee and the Local Council. The chartered organization representative may become a member of the district committee and is a voting member of the council. If the chartered organization has more than one unit, one representative serves them all. The Chartered Organization Representative appoints the Unit Committee Chair.

    2) The Troop Committee Chair is appointed by the chartered organization and registered as an adult leader of the BSA.  


    • Upvote 1

  19. Our troop uses the basic 12 x 12 tarps available at Home Depot.  For the uprights we use 8' 2x2's (also from Home Depot for about $1 each) with a nail driven in the top.  Each patrol sets up a tarp, takes six stakes if setting up in a field.  Also can easily be setup in trees.  Each patrol has a table, and a patrol box with stoves.

    For fun we recreate Norman Rockwell paintings


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    • Unscented soaps and shampoo, helps keep the bugs away
    • Small shampoos (hotel type) and liquid soaps as you will leave them in the shower
    • Snacks and good container to keep them in
    • Good walking shoes, try to vary each day
    • If you have one a fitbit or step tracker is kind of fun, you will be amazed at the number of steps each day
    • As has been noted, good daypack to keep all your stuff in during the walking about camp
    • Water bottle, but honestly after week 1 at camp the campers will leave plenty of them around and you will have your pick
    • Good towel, but honestly after week 1 at camp the campers will leave plenty of them around and you will have your pick
    • A second Class A shirt, they can get gamey as the week progresses
    • Cheap sunglasses and a cord to keep them, you will be in the sun a great deal
    • Hammock
    • Good socks


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