Jameson76
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Posts posted by Jameson76
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Honestly do any actual Scouts (or Cubs / Venturers / Explorers ) really care if they are Bronze - Silver - Gold - Chartreuse?? Do they even know if they are Bronze - Silver - Gold - Chartreuse?? Do they even know what JTE is??
My point is that JTE seems to be (is??) adult leaders reporting things to other adults leaders who then report to other adult leaders who then report to more adult leaders.
The intent is good and at it's heart there can be benefit. In practice it's a form that unit leaders fill out as another leader finalizes the recharter form(s). One more piece of paperwork.
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I guess my issue or heartburn with JTE is that it reaks of corporate culture hamstrung into a youth program.
JTE is really just KPI's (Key Performance Indicators) warmed over and put into a format for units.. In business and in working with contractors and remotes sites you have KPI's. How long to get stock received, inventory accuracy, turnover, time to get orders out, accidents (technically lack of accidents hopefully) etc etc. This give the managers objective and consistent measurements to see how the process is working. Note that these are in fact NOT self reported but typically pulled from the system(s) governing the operations and can assist to make improvements. The data drives the results reported (KPI's) and then actions are taken as these are reviewed.
The JTE "scorecard" should record and reflect the subjective measurements of how a troop is functioning. That is the hard part, it needs to be subjective as Scouts are not cartons going across a dock or an item picked from a bin. So BSA National took the easy route and quantified it so it was all nice and tidy.
The Short Term camping "goal" is a great example. Are all outings created equal? Well that is a great debate. If the Scouts choose where to go, plan their menus, plan the activities, etc that is an outing. If the leaders tell the Scouts where they are going and what they will be doing, that is also an outing. If you camp 2 nights or only 1 night on a weekend, is one outing better than the other? Car camping or hiking? Stay on a ship or do a lock-in...are those "outings".
Not sure what the solution may be, but the scorecard and numbers are likely not the best method.
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19 hours ago, MattR said:
I'm struggling with scouts. Recently a few things have made it clear to me what that struggle is and I'm wondering if others have the same challenges.
The paradox is simple. On the one hand when I see a scout that grew, or had fun, or helped another scout, or just did something that showed our goals were being met, it's great. It encourages me to go on. It's pure heart when a scout says "I get it!". On the other hand, the BSA program has become a set of trigger words that just scream bureaucratic pain because none of it seems to be really helping me or anyone else help scouts. A few examples are JTE, wood badge, roundtable, membership, popcorn, ILST, council, explain-describe-and-discuss requirements, complaints about SM's on this forum, fees, MB universities, Trainer's EDGE and summer camp school classes. When I talk to adults in my troop it's usually about helping scouts. When I talk to adults in my district or, heaven forbid, my council, it's like watching an infomercial - I don't care anymore.
I can't change the bureaucracy and don't even want to try. I've done my part before and it's just a way to burn out. Rather, I just want to work with the scouts. I don't want to help them advance. I want to help them achieve their goals. If they want to learn a skill so they can advance I'm more than willing to help them learn the skill, but I don't want to sign scouts off. If they just want to learn how to cook pancakes without burning them I'd really like to help them do that.
So do any of you have similar issues? If so, how do you deal with this paradox?
Pretty easy solution, don't deal with the adults in the district or council.
Anytime I've had to deal with the DE, District folks, council folks, or Council professionals it becomes painfully clear that we have vastly different perspectives and vastly different reasons for being involved with Scouting. Just say NO to roundtables, JTE targets, the wood badge cult, non specific membership drives, popcorn sales, getting worked up over district training targets, council "demands", MB universities, camp cards, Trainer's EDGE, etc etc etc
For me, as you seem to note, Scouting is great way to be part of developing (in our case) young men and seeing them grow and take on challenges. Camping out in the dirt, the mud, and the burned or forgotten food. Seeing a Scout who is incredibly upset that the rain is heavy and cannot get his tent setup in the dark, but then an older Scout assists. Seeing that same young Scout the next day having the best time paddling about the lake in a canoe.
For many not at the unit level my perspective is they have not seen an actual Scout out in the wild for a good bit. Many have forgotten the "why" of doing Scouting and are just busy doing Scouting. They feel that what they are doing is the most critical part of Scouting. While it is important, the most vital part is youth facing leaders assisting and guiding the Scouts as they run the program.
Be the best leader you can be at the unit level, watch the youth mature and sit in on some BOR's and it is always encouraging.
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1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:
IMHO, if the BSA goes Chapter 11, the BSA appointing an outside, "responsible person" * as CEO (CSE) will not fly. Following the Bankruptcy Code, a court will appoint an independent Chapter 11 trustee. This may explain the year-long "considering bankruptcy", BSA executives are trying to maintain control (organization destiny and their jobs) during bankruptcy. All companies want to do this, but ... You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime you find. You get what you need.
* Who is Responsible here? "Responsible Persons" in Chapter 11 Cases
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ust/articles/docs/2008/abi_200805.pdf
My $0.02,
Good Lord we've started quoting the Rolling Stones to help explain what the BSA executives may be up to.
I did not see that coming
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5 hours ago, carebear3895 said:
Looks like y'all may be getting your wish. The new CSE is expected to come from outside the Profession.
From your lips to the volunteers ears. This would shake up some underlings
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22 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:
The BSA model's for selection of leaders is stuck in the seventies. There's probably no organization of comparable size that uses this model.
Stuck in the 70's...try the middle ages. BSA has been succession by the royal heir that survived the intrigue in the kingdom. The leader is not the one who can lead and move the BSA to greater heights, it's the best politician who can make backroom deals. No challengers or boat rockers allowed. Also no outside ideas. Must.Drink.The.Kool.Aid
We can all see how great this model has worked out in Congress and Federal Agencies.
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6 hours ago, walk in the woods said:
If National or Councils want confirmation every year the least they could do is just offer a recert test. Pass the test and move on. No reason to sit through the same two hours of videos year after year after year.
At least the former YPT training was in fact training. To be compliant you need to do A B C, if you see non-compliance do X. If you are aware of issues report to cops and council.
Now we have 90 minutes of agenda indoctrination to make sure we know that child abuse is bad.
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1 hour ago, scotteg83 said:
Our council has an every year rule. They want to make sure your YPT does not expire during the full charter season, which yours does. Meaning if you do not take your YPT on or before December 5, 2020, you should have no contact with youth, period.
So...with that type of logic, and in that world, I can be a leader, taking youth on outings and adventures, doing all the Scouty things one does, then...suddenly....on December 6 I will (I guess like Mr Hyde) transform into some sort of raving lunatic endangering youth?
Better solution is for BSA to figure out the calendar foolishness, because either it's good at the time or recharter or it's not. It is up the the Scouter to be current when the annual recharter rolls around.
Remember...BSA does not exist just to support and promote YPT training, this is just part of the overall program training. It is part of who we are, not WHY we are.
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On 12/11/2019 at 4:31 PM, Cburkhardt said:
Membership numbers are out and reflect continued growth for the Scouts BSA program. End of November 2019 is +1.2% for youth Scouts and up 7.1% for units, in comparison to end of November 2018. This certainly reflects the influx of female Scouts and LDS departures. The figures that will count will be year-end figures, as that is when the LDS relationship officially ends. After the LDS departures take effect, I'm thinking we will have a 10% Scouts BSA youth membership drop (comparing 2019 year-end with 2018 year-end). If we continue to grow female Scouts BSA units and all youth at the current rate and retain 5% of our current LDS youth members, we could replace the losses within 1.5 to 2 years and return to net growth in this program. Given the challenges we have faced in recent months and years, this is better than I expected. What is your prediction? Please explain your opinion with reasoning and facts.
Are you looking at the numbers for the year as compared to last year (November 18 vs November 19) or are you looking at Jan 2019 vs November 2019? The reason I ask is that BSA does not adjust any numbers out for crossovers or age outs until recharter at the end of the year.
For example, if you have a pack of 45 and 10 Webelos crossover in March and you add 10 at School night, BSA will indicate 55 in the pack, while the pack (correctly) would say they were at 45. Those 10 Webelos would now be also showing in the Scout troop they crossed over to in March
That troop that had 50 Scouts and 10 aged out while they added 10 new crossovers would show as 60 on the books, operationally the unit leader would say they had 50
Real indication will be the annual report for 2019 which will be reflective of the recharters actual numbers, units not rechartering, and importantly the 20% loss (+/-) from the LDS departure.
2018 Annual Report numbers
- Cubs - 1,231,831
- Scouts - 789,784
- Ventures / Sea Scouts - 55,101
- Explorers - 109,613
- TOTAL - 2,186,329
2019 PREDICTIONS
- Cubs - 1,108,648
- Scouts - 631,827
- Ventures / Sea Scouts - 52,345
- Explorers - 98,652
- TOTAL - 1,891,472
Drop of 13.5%
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1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:
I keep hoping they'll revise it so that A and B fit on 1 single piece of paper (front/back). It would make it easier for troops to maintain their set of forms and it would be half us much paper for camps.
With all the legal clowns involved, surprised it doesn't run 12 pages, not including amendments and exhibits....
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12 minutes ago, Eagledad said:
Ask the organizer (might not be the Scout shop) because it depends on them. They usually have a plan for delivering the gift and many don't want it wrapped so they can verify the gift.
Barry
Agree on ask the organizer. Hopefully they have a method.
One of our Scouts Eagle projects was organizing with the local middle school a giving tree for Christmas. A good bit of double blind so nobody knew who was getting the gifts, they shopped and then wrapped and labeled as per the school counselor instructions. The Scouts had a fun time shopping.
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10 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:
Going by the Registration Guidebook of the BSA, Scout Executives may waive the 5 Scout minimum. This would be an exception to the standard requirements. "Units may register with as few as two paid youth members with the permission of the Scout executive."
Cue the "We Need the Dues" gif from Animal House.....
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Sad truth is that troops of less than 5 are not really a troop, they are not really a patrol. It is really tough to have an engaging outdoor program with so few Scouts to interact with.
I wish them well, but there may be more to the story.
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Typically the COR is not directly involved with the unit operations as a COR. Seems this COR wants to be the CM or CC, he may want to be large and in charge because that's what he wants to do and NOT what you need or want him to do.
The Chartered Organization Representative (COR) is the direct contact between the unit and the Chartered Organization. This individual is also the organization's contact with the District Committee and the Local Council. ... If the chartered organization has more than one unit, one representative serves them all.
Nothing in that involves direct unit operations / program
There is a pretty good guide - https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/04-113.pdf
Below is sort of what they are supposed to do, run program is not really one of these.
❑ Serve as a member of the unit Key 3 team and meet together several times a year.
❑ Serve as a liaison between your units, your organization, and the council structure.
❑ Encourage unit leaders and committee members to take advantage of training opportunities and to regularly attend district roundtables.
❑ Promote well-planned unit programs.
❑ Organize units to serve the youth needs of your organization and the community.
❑ Promote the recruitment of new members.
❑ See that youth participants and adult volunteers advance from one program phase to the next.
❑ Assist with annual unit charter renewal.
❑ Suggest unit Good Turns for your organization.
❑ Encourage unit committee meetings.
❑ Encourage the pursuit of Journey to Excellence performance.
❑ inform and engage organization leaders and members.
❑ Encourage active outdoor unit programs.
❑ Emphasize advancement and recognition.
❑ Secure district help when needed.
❑ Use approved unit finance policies.
❑ Encourage recognition of leaders.
❑ Cultivate resources to support your organization’s units.
❑ Represent your organization on the council and district levels.
❑ Serve on your council’s relationship committees when asked-
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On 10/16/2008 at 11:12 AM, Buffalo Skipper said:
--We interrupt this thread for a minor hijacking--This past summer we went to Skymont Scout Camp near Monteagle, TN. On the way we passed through South Pittsburgh, TN, home of the Lodge factory (and only factory outlet store). I could not convince the other leaders to stop, even though it was only 5 miles off the freeway. More curious, however, one of the CITs for the new scout program, is a member of the troop from South Pittsburgh, and it is chartered by Lodge. He assured me that ALL their "car camping" cookware was cast iron. Some troops have all the luck... Also related, Skymont has a daily Cast Iron Skillet Award (dates back some 20 years, and they are all hanging in the dining hall). Any guess where they get these?--We now return you to your regular scheduled thread--
We stopped there heading back from Skymont Got a replacement lid for a dutch oven
Skymont clean site award is the Cracked Skillet award. Much to our surprise we actually have won it a few time
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23 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:
- Commissioner role is not commonly understood; Approach to unit service varies in performance and effectiveness
Again people speak of commissioners and the reason the role is not commonly understood is that so few folks / units have actually seen one. They may file reports, but very few are seen in the wild.
The commissioner should know the units leaders, the CC's of the units, the key unit leaders (not the leader or CC, but the ones who actually gets stuff done). This would entail more than maybe an annual visit. Honestly if you query most units about their commissioner you will get "who??" or "what??"
Not saying it could not or should not be a useful role, but the execution is often times lacking.
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7 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
To answer my own question, from the 2017 Annual Report page 19
Assets page 4 Notes to Consolidated Financial Statements($ stated in thousands)
Note 5. Land, Buildings, and Equipment
At December 31, 2017, land, buildings, and equipment comprised the following:
National office, less accumulated depreciation of $19,212
9,301
High-adventure bases, less accumulated depreciation of $30,383
60,300
National Distribution Center, less accumulated depreciation of $6,948
3,409
Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, less accumulated depreciation of $39,273
370,994
Furniture, equipment, and software, less accumulated depreciation and amortization of $79,066
39,375
Total land, buildings,and equipment, less accumulated depreciation and amortization of $174,882
483,379
Depreciation and amortization expense was $21,634 in 2017.
High-adventure bases include Philmont Scout Ranch, Florida Sea Base, and Northern Tier
If I read the financial statement correctly, it appears a $446 million line of credit mortgage would be the full value of Philmont and then some . Going for broke?
Wait - Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve is valued at $371 million dollars? The site is maybe 13,000 acres, that would be $28,500 per acre. Seems a bit pricey.....
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There are many options
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It all depends on how you approach STEM, you have to work it into the program
- We were at a canyon hiking the rim, we posed the question, if we throw Timmy off, how long until he hits the bottom if the bottom is 700 ft? That lead to the speed and acceleration discussions. Also how much force would be needed to get Timmy out far enough
- We spotted the International Space Station on an outing, good discussion points on the station, geosynchronous orbits, etc
- Time to get to an outing..if the campsite is XX miles away, and we drive XX miles per hour, when do we arrive?
- How hot does the fire need to be to melt glass? (surprisingly not that hot)
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16 minutes ago, PACAN said:
@ValleyBoy Returned to council with letters yes. Sent to National no. Application is electronically sent to national 99% of the time. SEs like to flip through their project binders prior to signing the application.
We have never turned in the project book with Eagle application. Our unit completes 12 to 14 Eagles annually. The initial project is approved at the district, then reviewed at the EBOR, but that is it.
Pre-EBOR we turn in 2 page application to service center and contact list, then post EBOR application with signatures
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@le Voyageur - Discuss what points you would consider in selecting a muzzleloading rifle.
Key point - How will it perform in the Zombie Apocalypse?
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18 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:
...and if our units are struggling financially, National wants us to "sell more popcorn."
Remember - whatever the question is, the answer is in fact "sell more popcorn". Sadly my unit is not part of the solution as we don't hock the corn
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3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
Elon Musk? Steve Ballmer? Kevin Plank?
2 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:Robert Gates?
Sadly they (BSA National) does not seem to look for outside talent. You have to be part of the club, raised in the club, dedicated to the club, in order to be anointed to run the club. Likely some of the issues with finance and direction, currently impacting the organization, may have been lessened if leaders with some outside experience and different professional path had been in charge.
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Just now, Jackdaws said:
Hmm sounding like a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul then. Hopefully not though.
Sadly it has been ongoing for a while. This really stems from several items
1) The cost for the Summit, this is a huge drain
2) Pension Liabilities that are not fully funded for the professional Scouts
3) General overhead not full contracted for current size of the organization
4) Sub part of the that is the current Council Structure may not be the best to deliver Scouting to the local community
5) General Medical Health Care costs, actually this impacts pretty much every business and organization
6) The liability portion (not abuse cases) that are more prevalent, see above, due to everyone's rise in premiums, a lot of high deductibles, makes more sense to file on BSA insurance for a sustained injury
7) The abuse case money issue
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Family Camping focus - Jan/Feb Scouting Magazine
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted · Edited by Jameson76
Wow - I guess the new focus is officially FAMILY CAMPING if you look at Scouting Magazine
So I guess that's where we're heading....