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Posts posted by Jameson76

  1. Sort of like Auto Mechanics that is now Automotive Maintenance, it can be confusing

    They brought back Pathfinding and Stalking in 2010 as part of the historic merit badges.  Pathfinding was interesting and achievable, had a good clinic for that one with the unit.  We looked at having a clinic for Stalking but it was pretty in depth and took a hard pass.

  2. 17 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    Maybe, her quote from the article:

    Reflecting on her battle so far to enter the BSA, Ireland said she has been calling on Boy Scouts of America to end discrimination for many years and was and excited " that they are finally ended their ban on young women."

    But the fight continues, Ireland said, with the goal of having young women who have completed the work to attain the Eagle rank, the highest honor in Boy Scouts, recognized immediately, and not asked to re-do years of work, as Scouts BSA has suggested.

    "We call on the BSA to count all of the rank and merit badges that I and many other girls already completed before Feb. 1," she said. "Now that the BSA finally ended the discriminatory ban against girls, they should now welcome young women. I look forward to the Boy Scouts immediately granting me and other qualified girls the official Eagle Scout recognition. As I said when I first began this journey, 'I can't change my gender to fit the Boy Scout standard, but the Boy Scouts can change their policies to let me in.'"

    Wow...I guess it is all about her.  Guess the whole all about the journey thing is not in her wheelhouse.

    She has a path to earn the Eagle Scout rank, but feels that is not the way she should earn (be awarded??) the rank.  She want to be "recognized immediately, and not asked to re-do years of work as Scouts BSA has suggested"

    No.  You will be asked to do the work as a registered Scout under the advancement guidelines as every registered Boy Scout (now Scouts BSA) participant has done and will do.  Nothing more and (note this) nothing less.

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  3. 16 minutes ago, Chadamus said:

    Since we're answering for one another...

    TAHAWK, surely you've read enough of Jameson76's posts on this forum to realize he would not imply such.


    Rank requirements on this subject are clear.

    Absolutely.  Youth are free to learn all they would like in whatever forum they may want.

    For rank requirement from the time the youth is eligible to join, they need to follow all the requirements.  Getting awarded ranks from the now Scouts BSA organization within the BSA will (should??) require them to follow all time and process needs.

  4. 2 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

    BSA was founded as an educational organization.  Advancement (FKA "Recognition") is designed to encourage learning.  Advancement is not an official objective of Scouting or Scouts BSA, although it is often confused as an objective.

    Please explain why you would want to prevent a youth from having the opportunity to learn to be a good person and good citizen, sound in mind and body solely because they were not a registered member of Scouts  BSA.  Thank you.  

    I am not advocating preventing anyone from learning anything.

    What a small group of the newly joined members (one in particular) want to do is get the recognition from their time as they were tagging along with relatives.  They basically want to be awarded ranks from the time before they joined the now Scouts BSA program.  While they no doubt benefited from their experience, they were not in fact members of the organization.  If they do join, they will need to adhere to all advancement guidelines, including time between ranks, camping nights as a member, merit badges requirements as a member, and holding positions of responsibility as a member.

    No life experience cutting of the corners.  Use the extension, if you want to be part of the program, you need to be a part of the whole program.  All the rules and regulations, not just the ones you sort of feel like adhering to.

  5. 2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

    They want her to be credited for an Eagle project, and presumably all of her other requirements she "completed" from before girls were eligible for Boy Scouts. 


    2 hours ago, qwazse said:

    I would like them to do that too.

    @qwazse Can you explain why you would want to let someone who was not a member of the Scout organization earn ranks within the Scout organization for their life experiences?

  6. 4 hours ago, BryanInOakland said:

    How do gas canisters work at Philmont?  I believe when you get food, you can drop off empty canisters and get more. 

    But do you need money? Do they have a tab they charge you when you get back?

    Best method is a white gas type stove and you can buy gas on the trail.  Pound for pound best burn and temp ratio.  We have had cash with us to buy gas.

    For the crews we send, our troop goes every two years (except when Philmont burns), past practice has been to take two identical stoves.  Lately been using the MSR ones, though the Optimus ones have been successful.  With identical ones you basically use one and the other is the backup.  And you will probably need a backup.  Worst case the crew can cannabalize and get a working stove.  Not a bad idea to take a small amount of parts.

    We take 1 fuel canister for each and also 1 spare fuel tank.  There have been occurrences where the canister got kicked over and fuel was lost.  Good to the spare tank.

  7. This will be an interesting test

    One would hope that with the extension the BSA has given the opportunity.  If life (little L) experience becomes the standard, then it opens a tremendous can of worms.  Why can't any camping nights count for advancement, not just those with a troop??  Why do you have to do your project when you are a Life Scout, why not now??  Prerequisites are for losers, I did something similar and mom signed off....

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  8. 2 hours ago, mashmaster said:

    I am not sure about what you mean about the Family emphasis.  In my experience in Cub Scouts it already was family based, camping and activities had sisters around.  In Sea Scouts/Venturing the girls and boys plan and do things and family provides money and transportation.

    The emphasis on Family Scouting.  Not that it is for Cubs, but the whole Family can take part in all aspects of the program.  While at the front line that is not actually how it should work, not sure how those expectations may be managed.

    Families in Cubs is fine to a point.  Families in the patrol method on outings is a disaster

  9. 5 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

    But the program hasn't changed, the youth are still in charge and will have the same adventures.

    I think you are correct for right now globally. 

    Yet at the same time I think fundamentally the program has changed because Girls are joining and the program name has changed.  Yes as we all have noted Youth are in charge, we teach leadership, they become self reliant.  While that is the case the addition of the young ladies will change things, not sure if that will be positive, negative, or imperceivable,  there will be changes.  If you study organizational dynamics the addition of new elements into an organization will cause change. 

    Actually I am more concerned with the "Family" emphasis being put in the forefront and what that expectation will lead to for the Boy Scout aged program.  

    • Upvote 2

  10. We also do the recognition at the time of passing the BOR.  Same for giving them a pin and card at the COH.  Sidenote is we meet outside and make sure we pick up patches after the meeting.

    Someone may have to front the troop for some rank patches.  You can probably do some quick math and figure out what is needed.  Ex if you have 10 new Scouts, you will need 10 Scout / Tenderfoot / Second Class / First Class.  Rank patches (from BSA supply site) seem to be about $2.  This would be $80 as seed money.  Maybe in the first year that can be recouped with dues etc.

  11. Trying to ignore the whole "Scout Me In; Family Scouting is the BEST; the attitude that the last 109 years was subpar or somehow as the Boy Scouts did not allow girls; and the fact that as long as we're at it let's toss out the name Boy Scouts and become Scouts BSA.

    The name change of the program for the youth ages 11 -17; hey Girls let's join the Boy Scouts...BSA, wait we're gonna change the name now...

    I trust the Girl troops work out well. Just want to continue to run the troop, go camping, build self reliant Boy Scouts.   While it's neat that Girls are joining, let's not forget the vast number of Boys that are already members.

    • Upvote 3

  12. Troop always brings a sturdy cornhole game, the boys organize tournaments.  Decks of cards are good also.

    The one we bring is one a leader made, 2 x 4 frame and at least 1/2" plywood deck.  It can in fact support a Boy Scout standing on it (though we do discourage that).  Hard part was finding bags that would stand up.  Found some on-line made of sail cloth that seem to stand up


  13. 1 hour ago, Ranman328 said:

    Where are you getting this. I never said any of which you have stated above. I don’t think you would suspend a Scout for a disagreement or a knife incident or not cooperating with youth Leadership. You obviously have no training what so ever if you are going to put something like that in writing and maybe that is the reason why your Teoop would suspend a Scout for that. I suggest you read the Guide to Safe Scouting and review the forms in the back. I never said anything about notifying Council about any disciplinary decision. I said Revoking a Membership. Please read what I wrote before commenting!


    7 hours ago, Ranman328 said:

    Per the National Capital Area Council, which is my council, you must notify District and Council of any disciplinary actions taken by the troop to a scout.  Not sure what area you are from but this according to them has been BSA Policy for years.  If a Scout is a first time offender or is involved in a fight, I find it sad that a Troop would just suspend that scout without sitting him and his parents down for a discussion first.  Just my opinion. 

    Your post was that you must notify the District or Council of any disciplinary action  That's where I got it.

    If you are now indicating there are qualifiers that make make more sense

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  14. 4 hours ago, Ranman328 said:

    Per the National Capital Area Council, which is my council, you must notify District and Council of any disciplinary actions taken by the troop to a scout.  

    That just seems to be an incredibly broad and overreaching statement

    • If two Boy Scouts have a disagreement over some aspect of an outing and we counsel them, send them to their hammocks for 30 minutes to cool off, the unit has to notify District and Council?
    • If you have a Boy Scout that will not cooperate with the youth leadership, after a conference with the SM, decision is made to call parents to come get him, the unit has to notify District and Council?
    • If you have a Scout being careless with knife on an outing so an ASM takes the knife, the unit has to notify District and Council?

    The requirement (note this one is not in GTSS) that you must notify District and Council of any disciplinary actions taken by the troop to a scout in writing from the council and is somehow agreed to by the units and enforced by the council?  Are there disciplinary action notification commissioners roving about everywhere?

  15. Key is to keep them engaged while also letting them have some space.  Our troop runs multi age patrols.  They cook / work within the patrol on activities but the troop sort of self segregates for camping / hammocking / tenting.  Also if you are on a campout as an SPL / JASM / Eagle Scout you can come eat with the adult group

    For activities this past weekend we had the winter trip, several hours riding to the coast.  The older group rode in one car, led the setup for the troop, were in charge of the activities.  When we were coming back from some activities the older group stopped at one place and did some things not the whole troop did.  As they were older, seemed appropriate and they enjoyed the trust and freedom.

    As leaders we direct the younger scouts to them, also in our unit adults do not sign off on any TF / 2nd / 1st class requirements.  The scouts have to sit down with a Life or Eagle and have a conversation or demonstrate their accomplishments.  There are 1 or 2 that specifically call out "present yourself to your leader"...we do those

    Let them have FUN, let them be older, let them be responsible; they will continue to come to meetings and events as long as they events are engaging.

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  16. Do you have any rails to trails in your area?  Those can facilitate longer "road" rides without worrying too much about traffic.  We do a weekend campout at one near us (start is less than 1 hour away).  Over the years we have ridden in sections,  The scouts ride lengths of 25 to 50 miles in a day.  An out and back can work really well, save the time and trouble of shuttles.  Once they did 70 miles for the weekend.  We have looked at Mt Biking, there is a state park about 45 minutes from us that has a 9 - 10 mile loop, still developing that one.

    Scouts need helmets.  Some additional gear for Mt Biking.  Have a some chase bikes with first aid and repair tools.

  17. On 1/20/2019 at 10:05 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

     SM is a cooking MBC, and that was the primary emphasis. having fun was the second......and staying out of the Scouts' way....... Everyone had a good time......But what made it awesome is that my boys were looking forward to it. 

    That is really the key, Boy Scouts having fun, enjoying the experience, and the youth looking forward to the next thing.  You want to have a successful troop, make sure the CUSTOMERS (your Boy Scouts) are the main focus of what the unit does.  If you can meet their needs, make sure the Boy Scouts have time to be (sometimes) stupid younger people, and be in charge of their own experience, then you will be successful

    The main aims of scouting are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness; these matter very little if you do not have actual scouts in attendance to grow towards those aims


  18. On 1/22/2019 at 12:21 AM, thrifty said:

    Does filling out a youth application count towards BSA membership numbers or local executive recruitment goals of some kind?

    My son is already in the BSA so his fee would be waived 

    Yes - That is how the DE and FD and SE are in fact judged, number increases.  Your son in this example is the easiest way to pump up the numbers..."dual" enrollment.  That's two members for the price of one.

    Yes there are shenanigans with the membership numbers.  Sadly rather than focus on building good units with a fun and quality program, which will generate growth and membership in the long term, they want the numbers NOW, so sign them up NOW.

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  19. 11 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

    if you were asked to participate on your Council training committee, would you?  Why or why  not? 

    Would need to know what if anything the Council Training committee actually accomplished OR was it just a check the box committee (yep we met).  What is the charter of the group?  What are their goals?  What have they implemented or improved last 3 / 5 /7 years.  What do they actually do that helps the scouting program at the unit level?

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