Buffalo Skipper

Now these are some serious portage packs:

http://www.granitegearstore.com/Traditional-Portage-Packs-C25.aspx

and

http://www.granitegearstore.com/Expedition-Portage-Packs-C16.aspx

I am in the process of rebuilding a canoe, and want to get some of these products to supplement my pack gear.

http://www.granitegearstore.com/Canoe-Accessories-C17.aspx

Where I am portages are virtually non-existant.

Looks like a fairly positive story.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13325567

Three members of our troop competed in the regional middle school Robotics competition last fall. One of our best ASMs was a volunteer coordinator mentoring the team. We should have several scouts with this badge in no time.

Look into the Fuji XP10. I finally settled on this due to price. It is now on sale online for $100. This is waterproof to 10' (I don't scuba, so I will never be below this depth), shockproof, dustproof and freezeproof (14*F).

I have used this since September and it does great. It is compact (fits easily in a pocket or backpack waist pouch) and light (5.8 oz without battery) It has HD video, 12mp and a 5x optical periscope zoom contained entirely internal.

Picture quality is reasonable. You have to learn to use the settings, but once you get that down, it is great. It is my adventure camera for scouts and I love it. I paid $150 back in Sept and it is now 2/3 that price.

SMT224 wrote: "I guess this is another reason I prefer (not require) hiking mb hikes be part of a Troop activity. If everyone is on the hike, everyone gets through it. Left on their own, some Scouts may not have had the motivation to complete the hike."

I can't recall disagreeing with you, but the exact reason why you feel this should be a troop activity is why I feel it is best accomplished outside of a troop activity. The purpose of a scout earning a MB shows extra effort and individual accomplishment except where specifically noted otherwise (such as Pioneering req 10). I am not suggesting that troop accomplishments should not count (if the scout worked up the plan for the troop), only that I would encourage a scout to do the hikes on his own (with appropriate buddies).

That said, I vividly remember earning the Hiking MB back in the day. I was 13 years old and trailer camping with my mother and grandfather. We went from Florida to spend threee weeks at Rocky Mountain, Grand Teton, and Yellowstone National Parks. In the campgound, we met a family with two boys very close to my age (David and Steve Krum). They were not boy scouts, but we planned and took several 10 mile day hikes. The two that stand out most were to Gem Lake and also to Nymph, Dream and Emerald Lakes and Alberta Falls. For my 20 mile hike, they accompanied me all the way up the Fall River Road and back. This was the first auto road to cross the Rocky Mountains. As it was early June, the road was not yet open to auto traffic. The dirt road started at 8500' and ended at 11800'; a "gentle 6% average grade." Up and back was almost 22 miles, and at the top, the road had been plowed; we walked inside a narrow cavern of 10' snow pack on either side. Later I took a solo hike or two in Yellowstone to finish my required hikes, but without my favored hiking buddies, these were less memorable, in spite of the spectacular surroundings.

Side note: this was long before this was an Eagle reqd badge and did not at that time require that all the 10 mile hikes be completed first.

As a hammock camper, I do not use sleeping bags at all. What I do have is Under Quilts (UQ) and Top Quilts (TQ). UQs snug the underside of a hammock, and TQs are like a sleeping bag with no back (less material and weight).

My winter UQ is down will keep me warm down to 20, and colder if I add additional insulation. My summer UQ is synthetic (3 oz Climashield) good for 45-50 and up. I have a winter TQ (good to about 15) which I use up to about 55. Above that, I use a fleece liner and supplement with a second layer of fleece at the lower range. Eventually, I will purchase a summer TQ for temps 40-65, but it is not yet in my budget.

If you are looking to save weight, some ultralight hikers will use Top Quilts with tent or tarp and a good pad. But keep in mind that these products are sometimes pricier than standard sleeping bags, as many of them are custom made.

Long answer, hope it helps.

Not to hijack this thread, but I have the idea of turning this history into a Scoutmaster Minute. I have looked online for a good compass rose which resembles a fleur-de-lis. It would suit my discussion to first have an image of the object from which it all came.

Kudu,

Thanks. I know I am but I always appreciate your perspective. I do want to keep this simple. My comment was more to limit discussion in that direction ;-).

Basementdweller,

I have been backpacking since I was a scout. I am not "guide," in the sense you suggest, but I have been backpacking since I was 10. That was when I accompanied my brother for a 100+ miles while he was doing an AT thru (1976). I intend to use established trails and areas, and I am talking about weekend or 3-day weekend treks.

Our troop does a 12-16 mile weekend trip in December (local) and a longer 3-day trek in January at a 5-hour drive from home. Sometimes, on this second trip, our youngest scouts set up a base camp; older scouts backpack 15-25 miles. This intention of this group is extra backpacking for those interested, rather than just the 2x a year our troop goes out.

As for why do it under the auspices of scouting? Well there are limited opportunities to backpack near home. This is an opportunity (for those who are intersted) to do something more. I am willing to jump through scoutings hoops and follow all guidelines in order to be under the scouting umbrella and liability. Usually we would be further away, and many of these scouts have families which are completely disinterested in the outdoors. And yes, we do intend to keep the group small. 5-7 scouts and 2-3 adults. This will help keep cost down, as we can travel in 1 SUV, or two smaller vehicles.

If the rest of the troop hears how much fun this crew is having, they may become more interested in doing more also. Another idea is that this may lay the foundation for a future Venture crew, as our troop continues to grow (and you know that notion just crossed my mind).

BrentAllen,

Philmont? Sure! Some scouts are more interested than others. Two decades ago and before, our troop sent a crew to Philmont every year. We were the adventure troop. Some of those scouts are now returning to us as leaders and parents, so there is a network of adults which understands the desire to fill this percieved void in our program.

Thanks much for the input. Are there any more questions, suggestions or alternatives? I am all ears....

Out of 26 active scouts right now, there are possibly 6-8 who would like to backpack, and about the same number who would skip any backpack trip for exactly that reason. The remaining 10-14 may be interested in our 2x annual backpack trips, but no more.

Our SPL would be interested sometimes, but not always as he has a busy schedule. I am all for patrol hikes, but again the mix means that maybe 2-3 from each patrol would be interested in an additional BP trek, while others would not. I respect the fact that not all scouts like to backpack (and some are willing to put up with it occasionally). I am looking to targe those who ARE interested.

My initial thought is that if these scouts like BP, they may not attend other campouts, so if we do this every 3-4 months, it would require that they attend 50% of the preceeding 4 months of troop outings in order to participate, and have SPL or SM approval. I want the scouts to plan these, but may offer some extra advice on the first one to kick start the process. This is not to replace activities, but for those with this particular interest to offer an extra opportunity to do this. It would also work to make leaders of these scouts who could then take this back to their patrols.

Again, I am just forming ideas. Offer program they are interested in and they will be more involved.

Any other thoughts?

I had a thought. I have a small number of scouts (and a select group of adults) in our troop who really like to backpack. How possible is it to get a group of scouts together outside of a regular troop campouts every 3 or 4 months to go on a weekend backpacking trek?

I have not discussed this with anyone in the troop yet, and I am not necessarily talking about just older scouts. We have a couple of brand new scouts who are very interested in backpacking. They are physically fit and I feel that even though they are fresh, would be very eager to participate in such a trek.

I have some off the cuff ideas on how to do this within the troop (not a Venure patrol), but I wanted to bounce ideas off some of you here first. I want to make this a serious discussion, and really talk about the pros and cons of how this could be done...

SR540Beaver,

The requirements is 15 nights of camping, (6 as part of a long term camp like summer camp) over a 2 year period. This is not a minimum of 2 years of troop participation, only that a scout can use the preceeding period of up to 2 years to fulfill the camping requirement.

My son joined in February and first camped in March (2 nights). He then camped in April and May (4 more), then summer camp (7), he missed the July canoe trip, but made the long canoe trip in August (4) as well as September-November (6). Elections were in December before we camped, so he had 16 plus 7 summer camp (max 6 to count) totalling 22 OA eligible nights in his first 9 months. We have an active troop.

No worries.

I appreciate your dilemma. Last year my son was 11 and eligible for the OA. I did not feel he was ready. He and I had a talk about it, and he agreed. Hence I did not recommend him for selection, and he was not on the ballot. Ironically, I was never selected by my troop as a youth, and our committee selected me that same year. Most everyone I knew in the district and council had for years assumed I was in the OA; many would greet me with the OA handshake, and I would have to politely remind them that I was not in the OA and they were universally shocked. I did go through Ordeal last year, and this weekend, I am up for Brotherhood. My son was elected by the troop (I am proud to say by a unanimous vote!). He is older and more mature now (13 last weekend), and I am excited for him and confident he will do well.

Only you can make that decision, but I am confident that I made the right one.

There is a scout who was removed from our troop a year and a half ago. Hardly a day goes by that I do not question if it was what was best for him.

We had another scout leave our troop for another a year ago. He was our SPL, but he did have some behavioral issues on which we were trying to work with him. Ultimately, he left over a dispute between his mother and a committee member, but his bahavior issues were a concern for us. He ended up joining Venturing Crew, but it folded before it got off the ground when the Advisor was unexpected transferred out of town. So, he joined another troop, and the SM came to me about him. I work very hard to have a friendly relationship with every scoutmaster in our area, and as it turns out, this SM and I were aquainted in high school, and his mother was my German teacher for 3 years. Though we were not close, our shared adult scouting experiences have made us fast friends. I answered all the questions he had about his new scout, but offered nothing more. Clearly, he was keeping a eye on him (in a good way). It is good to know that this scout is in a good scouting environment. I hope he does well, and I do occasionally ask how he is.

Do you have a relationship with your former scout's new SM? Maybe you could have a conversation with him the next time you bump into him. Just a friendly chat. See if he has any specific questions you can answer. Make the conversation positive, even if the material may not be.

Not knowing the specifics of this situation, I am somewhat stabbing in the dark at offering advice. Only you can make the decision of how to proceed. A good conscience can speak to you long after an event has passed, guiding you toward scouting's true north. I hope this was helpful. Good luck.

Thank you all for your thoughtful and insightful responses. At last night's meeting, we passed out CQU patches to all our scouts, veteran and new. I do appreciate your opinions on the matter.

I worked with a retired Navy/Marine officer (USNA grad) who had some connections on USN officer advancement selection boards. He relayed as story of how when reviewing candidates, they would divide stacks into "Eagle Scouts" and non-Eagle scouts. They would first review all "Eagle" candidates before looking at candidates who were not Eagle scouts. I don't know how true this representation was, but as an Eagle Scout himself, I tend to believe what he said.

The unit earned the award. I have a stack of patches in hand which will be presented at the next troop meeting. We had Webelos cross over last month. Both packs from which these Cubs came earned the Centennial Quality Unit Award. Both packs share with us the same Charter Organization. Should I single out the pervious scouts who were with the troop and deny it to the new scouts, or give it to everyone. We also have some leaders in the same postion.

Just looking for some feedback. Thanks.

I have plenty of uniforms, as does my son. We just bought our first Centennial shirt, so until now, this has been a non-issue. The uniform inspection sheet suggests the patches are dentered between the epaulette and pocket, as these two items are in alignment. However, that is not the case with this shirt. The back edge of the epaulate is roughly a line which centers on the pocket.

So do I place the CSP/Unit Veteran strip/Unit Number in line with the shoulder or with the pocket? Seems to me that if I align with the shoulder this is going to look wrong where it meets the pocket. And yet, if I align with the pocket, it will look odd up at the shoulder.

In the past I just centered on the shoulder below the epaulette, and everything fell into place.

Suggestions?(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Who wears the CQU patch? If the unit earned the award, does everyone in the unit wear the patch, or only those who were a member of the unit when it was earned?

Do crossing Webelos (and leaders) wear this if the troop earned it last year or not?

Sorry of this has been asked before, but I could not find it anywhere.

FScouter and Beavah, you are correct in what you say. I had a similar experience, in reverse, and it was a bit of a power play. One long standing committee member did not want scout accounts, claiming that the troop as a whole was where the scouts' loyalties should lie, not with an individual account from which they would benefit. He made the claim loudly and firmly. The parents wanted accounts to help defer costs; the SM/ASMs wanted it too. The committee member didn't want to have to deal with it (no longer has a son in the troop, but is a very active leader).

Clearly in Pack212's case, there has been no mention of what the parents/scouts/families want. If everyone but the SMs want it, then they are in the wrong to oppose it. Right or wrong is immaterial. Everyone should choose to support the desired system. Based on what has been presented so far, I do not see that the CC was necessarily out of line. If more information comes out, I may well change my opinion.

Prehaps most importantly, prolong power struggles will only hurt the scouts in the long run.

My 2.

Beavah, I disagree with you (which does not happen often ;-) ).

There is just not enough information to suggest the CC was bahaving badly. In fact, based on what was said ("...Scout accounts instead of paying out of pocket..."), it seems to me like th CC was trying to develop some improvements in the troop. What do the SMs have to do with scout earned camperships? That is a committee issue, and something that parents probably want and should improve participation. Of course I can't speak about the "other issues".

The committee, led by the CC should ensure that the SMs are delivering (facilitating) BSAs expectations. If they are not and are "holding on to power" then it suggests the SMs are out of line. Hope I am not stepping on your toes too hard.

My first experience with a UC was while I was Cubmaster. Our UC was the wife of the twice prior Cubmaster. Eight years later, she is now the Council Commissioner, and a close scouting friend.

I joined the troop committee a few short years later, and the troop UC was a close friend of mine from church, who had just stepped down as BSRTC. He stepped away from the commissioner staff two years later and is now our Committee Chair. Our current UC is a close personal friend and co-worker. He is a personal, professional and scouting mentor to me: what more could one ask of a UC?

I have also served on the commissioner staff, as CSRTC, VFC, and UC for Sea Scout ships and Venture crews, serving a total of 5 years in these capacaties. I have attended 2 Commissioner Colleges, and presented at the another. I know and understand what is expected of a unit commissioner. I have had great ones, and have been fortunate in that regard. From the viewpoint of a former UC, the greatest challenge facing a UC is being welcomed by a unit. If the unit does not welcome the commissioner, there is almost no way he can assist or provide support. Yes, there are bad commissioners out there, but in my experience they are not the norm.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

It is a little far reaching, but for a larger project/event, how about having an Aquaduct building competition? The Romans were masters of manipulating water and building aquaducts. Make the competition specific and measurable, like you must transfer x gallons from point A to point B. Points A and B must be so far apart, and the start point must be a minimun of a certain height. Use raingutters and lashing for stands/tripods.

This may make a nice alternative to the catapult.

For the best camporee-catapult story ever, see my post from a little over a year ago--

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=258614#id_258614

The OP was talking about a specific rank requirement, not about a MB. Let's stick to the question asked, as the procedures and requirements for rank and MBs are quite different.

I would not credit anything they have done in cub scouts for boy scout rank requirements. The joining requirements (Scout Badge) are different, and I would treat them as such. As an example, if I had a SM conference with a Webelos (AOL requirement) and he joins the troop a week later, I would not repeat the conference as there would be little to nothing to gain (for the scout). Remember, the requirements for the Scout badge are Joining Requirements, not a rank. But I digress.

For any boy scout requirement, I would expect the activity to have occurred while a registered member of the troop. Otherwise, it would be an "award" which could be earned as a cub scout.

For me this issue is black and white; I don't see any gray area here. MBs, though a different issue, I would treat the same way. But that interpretation is to be made by a counselor, not by me, the SM.

Pack212, that does sound like a real can of worms. From my perspective as SM in my troop, I find that very disappointing as I have worked hard to get the troop and the CO working closely together. Kind of the opposite for me as well, as I have worked hard over a very few strong committee objections to get camperships installed in the troop.

I don't think I want to comment about your position as it is obviously a polarizing one and quite sensitive.

Good Luck.

Maybe we should be in touch with FSU chapter of Alpha Pi Omega and see if they can establish a special version of the Community Organization Award with a Garnet background in lieu of the navy blue. It looks too USNA for me. Garnet and Gold would be better.

Journey to Excellence. That is sad, but I like it, in a twisted sort of way.

Do you have a trail name yet?