Buffalo Skipper

Our troop recently took our scouts to our local campthe first time our troop had gone there in 8 years. We took 18 scouts (14 of which were first time summer campers) and we placed first in the water carnival and missed top troop by only 4 points. Not bad for a bunch of boys wet behind the ears! The bonding experience (which we had missed at 2009 summer camp) was marvelous, and our young troop is much more like a family than before. We had a great time, but we were greatly disappointed by the program offerings, both the new scout program and the way in which MBs were conducted. Of course the food was mediocre too, but that is another thread.

We have another summer camp experience in two weeks, in which we are travelling further afield to the mountains to a high end, reputable camp. Less than 10 of our scouts are going, and considering the cost (75% more that our council camp, not counting gas), this is understandable.

We are now considering another alternative for next year. We would like to go to a council summer camp in this area (close and cheap) for the good benefits it brings us. But the following month, we would also like to try making our own one week camp, where the scouts create the program, and (due to the young nature of the troop) the adults deliver it.

As much as I really want to do this, I have some mixed feelings about it, but before I go into too many details, I wanted to hear what you your thoughts and first impressions.

Our troop has 6 month terms. And it was something that came up at last night's PLC meeting. Sure, it takes 6 months for some people to get really comfortable in a position and hit their "stride." The culture in our troop for years had been that someone only serves for 6 months and moves aside (with no formal term limit in place). This was when we had a small (12-15 member) troop with a reasonably balanced age range. That went out the window a few years ago when we had a recruiting "gap." Now, we are looking to a 13, 14 and 15 year old to lead the troop. We need to have a culture where we keep these scouts in the positions for some time while we grow our younger leaders and start getting these boys more scouting experience.

On the same lines, we have one scout who is PL of a young patrol, and he is very directive. His scoutcraft is fine but his communication skills are mediocre at best. Elections are coming up in September and he will have served for 6 months; we do not expect that he will be re-elected. Would giving him another 6 months (a one year term) do better for him? I think it would do better for him to step away and "reevaluate" his position. He will be a great leader (we can see it in him) but being voted out may give him the humility he needs to do the job right in the future.

I like the 6 month term. It allows the scouts to cut away the "dead wood" or to keep the budding branches.

Without getting wrapped around the axel for fundraising, we use our council sponsored fundraisers (popcorn in the fall and camp cards in the spring) for individual camperships (generally summer camp, but it could be used for any camping). It it our goal to hold other fundraisers to help defer the cost of outings and camping. This is new to our program this year.

We have our scouts do all the shopping for camping (food). Generally this amounts to $10 or less per campout. This includes Saturday: breakfast, lunch and dinner; and Sunday: breakfast and lunch. This is an average of $2 per/scout per/meal.

In spite of this, over the last year, our troop cost analysis revealed that the cost to participate in every event for our troop was over $900/year (we currently have no siblings in the troop but that will change next spring); I do consider this high, but let me add that no scout actually participated in every event, so no one acutally paid this out, though three came close.

As SM, this is a real concern for me. But it is not entirely within my ability to fix. Only with the parents and the committee can fundraising be organized to help defer these costs. This has been our biggest challenge. I am working with the committee to try to have a budget planning meeting to discuss and plan troop fiscal matters for the coming year. With our troop having doubled in size this past year and with us expecting us to nearly double again in the spring, this is something we need to carefully consider.

We do the swim with the manatees every other Februray. Pensacola to Crystal River is 7 hours, and we can typically do the weekend for about $80-$90. Pretty reasonable. This past year (2010) we swam with an estimated 250 in the morning. When we went back in the afternoon there were only 50-75 still hanging out in the spring. Previously about 100 was the most we had ever seen. It was amazing.

Our troop is at our council camp (Spanish Trail Scout Reservation, Camp Euchee) right now. The camp is notoriously hot and humid. Typical 90/90s (90+F/90%+ humidity). Campers develop what is affectionally called the "Euchee walk," where scouts walk with a bit of a bow legged stance to avoid chaffing a very raw area. I was up on Sunday night and left after dinner Monday (I'll return Thursday evening).

After I left, the ASMs marched the scouts to the showers and they showered by patrol (which I heard worked very well). Any with Euchee walk were told to dry extra well and given Gold Bond to apply liberally. All were better by yesterday morning, according to reports I heard.

Of the 18 scouts we sent to camp, only 14 were first time summer campers.

Thanks for the info. I will share that with my troop, Sea Scout ships and the camp's aquatic director. Good information.

LIBob, first let me say that it is tragic anytime someone drowns. As a Scouter, Boy Scouter and avid boater, I am especially mindful of situations involving current or former scouts and leaders. However, I am inclined to side with Beavah on this one.

This was neither a scouting activity nor did it involve youth, so it is difficult to assess a comparison to SA. I agree that a second boat would have been fine, but outside of BSA, that concept is taught no where that I am aware.

Not to refute the grieving father, but his statement is emotional and taken somewhat out of context. Sure boating on the open ocean comes with hazards and is dangerous, especially at night, but Plymouth Harbor is not the open ocean. Like Beavah says, wait to see what the accident report says.

The man who drowned was 19 and he was very capeable of making a decision to do what he felt was a reasonably safe endeavor. Obviously something went wrong, tragically. But they call them accidents. Do we try to change the driving laws or revise every high school driving class or up the licensing requirements of teenagers every time a teenager dies in a traffic accident?

With all that, let me reiterate that it is tragic that someone, in this case an Eagle Scout, drowned in a boating accident. But let's not go pointing fingers trying to second guess what may have happened here.

Our troop has plenty of other books in our library, including cook books, outdoor books and much more, and in fact, we do have that 1990s edition of Woods Wisdom. ;-) It is not off in the dark rescesses of some hidden closet; it is right out in front for everyone to see.

I do like the idea of getting surplus check out cards and book pockets (I will call the library this morning). Another thing I like is the idea of inserting a "sign-out" page in the front or back of the book. Here, any scout who checks out can sign and include the date he completed the MB.

I also just remembered that the wife of one of our committee members (mother of an ASM) is a retired school librarian. I will ask her for ideas also.

Any comments on how you utilize the Librarian as a POR? As I said, I don't have a scout in that position right yet, but it would be something to consider for the future, especially as we are growing and fast.

Has anyone heard of the Bass Pro Shops promotion offering (nationwide) counseling for Rifle Shooting and Fishing MB classes?

Our council sent out an email about it but was not very specific about the details needed to take a merit badge. There are two BPS within about 1.25 hours of us. One is in council, the other out of council. I have been unable to determine that either has a registered and trained MBC for this.

I have a scout who wants to attend. In fact, he claims his whole patrol wants to attend, though none of them have asked me about it or gotten a blue card. I cannot in good conscience send him blindly to a class where I cannot determine the Counselor's qualifications.

Any advice?

Greetings fellow scouters (and scouts).

Our troop has not utilized the "Librarian" position for many years, and I am considering discussing this with our SPL. We do have an extensive library, though much of it is quite out of date. I would very much like to see the really old books (some of ours date back to the 70s and even a few to the 60s) removed from circulation and the mostly current ones used more. We have no system for recording check outs on MB books.

Can any of you offer some ideas on what your troop does and how your handle the troop library?

FYI, the scout the SPL has mentioned for his is a 4 month Tenderfoot, so he is not holding this position for rank advancement. Likewise he is 11 and inexperienced, but methodical and responsible; however, it will be difficult for him to singlehandedly organize and sort the 200+ books we have.

"I stopped by the local REI...." :-(

I'm jealous. The nearest REI to me is just over 350 miles away. I wish I could just "stop by" the local REI store....

As far as sheets go, either go with cheap Wal-Mart sheets or a liner. The silk is great, but I use a thin flannel mummy liner (REI). My son has a cotton mummy liner (Alps Mountaineering). Each of us are very happy with what we use.

In the winter, of course, we can use these with our mummy bags to lower the rating.

We usually bring a regular sleeping bag to sleep on top of, which to me is much more comfortable.

For a compact tent fan, look at this one. It is not cheap, but it is the smallest and most incredible fan I have ever seen.

http://www.amplestuff.com/compactdeskfan.aspx

We picked up a pair of these after Hurricane Ivan (2004) and with a set of Duracells in each, I am buying my third set of batteries this week. Yes, you can get well over 200 hrs of use out of one set of batteries. Really cool is the variable speed and the 4 hour auto shutoff. My son and I are taking these to camp next week where daytime temps are in the 90s and evening in the upper 70s or lower 80s.

Without our district or counil, we would be..merged into another council. Our council is roughly 100 x 150 miles, and our service center and national scout shop are right here in my hometown, 12 miles away. To have that more to a location 60-180 miles away if our council went under would be extremely difficult for our program.

For participating in FOS, Popcorn, and the "Spring Fundraiser" (which was extremely successful this year!), we receive free use of camp and facilities for the year (not summer camp). This includes canoes. Last year we did 2 canoe trips totaling 7 nights. For the 8 canoes we used, had we utilized local outfitters, this would have cost the troop $2500. We also camped 2x at remote camps at our scout reservation, which would have cost maybe $100. So, $2600 or $0. For us it is a no brainer.

We have always had successful FOS campaigns in our pack and troop under my leadership. We do it this way. Before the B&G or COH, I personally contact the parent (previous pack meeting or at troop end of year parent meeting) and I explain that a district rep will be visiting and soliciting money for FOS. I briefly explain FOS and suggest that our family supports and that each family is welcome to do the the same. Likewise, I offer that times are tough and no one is obligated to make a contribution. That way when the FOS rep comes around, no one is blind sided. Last year, our troop of 15 contributed $1500, and our pack of 30 gave almost $2500.

FOS, the way we handle it brings nothing back to the units, in the form of $$$. Yet we know it supports our area program and makes those who are able and willing to contribute feel good. On the other hand, popcorn sales pay for nearly 100% of the pack program, and about 1/3 of the troop budget. In recent years our council has struggled to find a productive fundraiser for the spring. This year they made "camp cards": a credit card sized reusable discount coupon for use at at 6 local vendors; it also has 3 one time use tabs for $5, $5 and $10. The cards sell for $5 each and the troop gets 1/2. We use this 100% for camperships. Sell 60 cards, pay for local camp. Sell 125 and pay for out of council camp. At $5, these are easy to move, and we had one scout sell almost 200 and pay for both camps in full.

We are a part of our district and council. If we don't support them, they will go away and the loss will be ours. Learn to use these things to your advantage. Make it fun. But play nice. You will come ahead in the long run.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I do see the value of a group project, as you all described. Yet it only reinforces that this should not be one. Let me offer this perspective (typical of what I often see in scouts these days):

Adam, Bob and Chuck are working on a group project, together, say a coffee table. Adam is a little engineer with a strong personality and reasonable leadership potential. Bob is a real follower and a bit lazy. Chuck really doesn't want to take the MB, but mom and dad say that this is only offered until December and he needs to take it now. Adam designs the piece, and Bob contributes. Chuck participates but only offers unrealistic options. They begin marking and cutting and Chuck is really doing a poor job, which is frustrating Adam, who wants it to be just so; Bob just goes along with whatever Adam says. They assemble the table, but Adam does 75% of the work, Bob 20% and Chuck does 5%. They all turn in the project and the MBC accepts it. Adam is pleased because he knows he did a fine job on his project. Bob is happy because he got along well with Adam and Adam is satisifed. Chuck is glad it is finally over and he got the badge and his parents will be quiet about it.

This is typical of most MB "classes" I have observed, and one reason I really do not like "classes" settings that some troops, districts or councils organize. But I don't want to take this off-topic. I feel that in most group project settings, some scouts do too much and others far too little. In the end, it can take away from what all the scouts learn.

The comparison to VLSC is an interesting one, but its purpose is somewhat different from TLT. VLSC is a leadership program intended for the entire unit (crew). We have also put on council-level VLSC courses, but the main excuse for this is that crews are too small and inexperienced to execute their own course. We have been fortunate that for the most part we have had mostly complete crews in attendance, which help.

Ironically, when our troop runs our TLT, we include our entire troop, which is not the real idea of the program. Our reason for this is that we do this after crossover, and for the new scouts, we break them out for about half of the training into a "Your job as new member of a patrol" group. This is led by the patrol leaders, who have just completed Green Bar (inquiry.net). No, that is not exactly the way the program is designed, but it is an effective method of implementing the program for us.

I am not really bent out of shape (yet), just opinionated. I also am 29 years out of date on NJ, and I really want to know that I am dotting my i's and crossing my t's.

I have many fond memories of the 81 NJ, and as this is the 8th Jamboree at this site, I can only imagine how much more organized it has become. I will consider counseling my scouts on the meaningfullness of all the activities. Interestingly, both scouts are 13. One has 4 merit badges while the other has 28.

I just took a moment to look at the bsajamboree.org and the midway site. However dishartened I was by the list of 95 merit badge offerings, I was reassured by these words:

"...Scouts will have an opportunity to practice many skills related to the merit badges. Scouts may meet some of the requirements of the badge(s) at the jamboree and then complete the requirements at home. By the same token, some merit badge work begun at home may be completed at the jamboree...."

I will certainly bring that up to my scouts when I review with them the activities. I am sure they will have a great time.

I have some questions about MBs offered at the Jamboree.

I have heard that scouts will have the opportunity to take MBs at the NJ. As a SM, how do I prepare my scouts for this? Do I offer each scout a stack of blank signed Blue Cards? As we live 750 miles away, obvously none of these counselors are registered in our district or council. If it was at a summer camp, I would counsel the scout in advance. I have one scout attending who acts like "He who has the most badges wins."

Please give me some ideas here.

As a personal note (few of you know me should be surprised by this), but why are scouts taking MBs at the Jamboree? Don't they have something better planned? $2000 seems like a lot for a parent to spend for a "Merit Badge Midway." I attended the NJ in '81 and I don't believe I earned a single badge, nor do I even recall them being offered. If this is what the Jamboree has become, I will certainly discourage participation in the future.

I am not trying to keep this off topic here. In fact I trying to specifically answere the question of whether or not this is double dipping.

If as ManyHats suggests that this project is a means of demonstrating proper tool use as specified in reqs 2 and 3, then there is no "project" (for the sake of the MB). The project exists as a stand alone activity, during which scouts demonstrate their ability to use tools. There is no double-dipping here. But the scout cannot be "required" by the counselor to participate in/complete the project as a means of completing requirements 2 and 3; that is adding to the requirements.

On the other hand, many here agree that the "ramp" would not qualify for req 6, then, again there is no double-dipping.

I strongly disagree. TLT should be handled on the troop level. It is the SPL, ASPL and instructors who should be delivering this training to the other scouts in your troop. There should be several youth trainers to handle the sessions. To deny your scouts the opprotunity to train other scouts by having a single SPL, for example, train ASPLs from 5 troops shorts the 4 ASPLs from other troops the needed interaction with their own SPL.

Taking this already weak and vague program and diluting it by making it a district or council "class" is like trying to flavor a bathtub full of water with one package of Kool Aid. If it was meant to be delivered on the District or Council level, it would have been called DTLT or CTLT. Do not go down this path.

My 2.

I believe that the call regarding service hours should be made by the SM (or whomever in your unit is responsible for this; is it the Advancement Coordinator?).

However, I would have reservations regarding this project (handicap ramp) for the Carpentry MB. Requirement 6 states: "Make a simple article of furniture for practical use in the home or on the home grounds, finished in a workmanlike manner, all work to be done without assistance." I would consider neither a "ramp" nor a "tool box" as apiece of furniture. And the stipulation "...to be done without assistance" would not, in my estimation, be useful for a group project.

Remember, Merit Badges are meant as an individual accomplishment, not part of a group effort (unless so specified, such as Canoeing reqs. 6 & 7, or Pioneering MB req. 10).

Wow! Great replies. I want to repond to each and every one, as every one has merits I want to learn more about; but that is not practical here. Instead, let me explain my place in all this, and a little more background. Years ago, there was a written troop bylaws, and before that, a troop policies sheet. These are so old that they predate electronic media and were typed and mimeographed. Of the active people in our troop, I hold the only known copies of these documents, and as no one really knows what actually is written there, these are not decreed to the troop as a method of rule.

Instead the troop has many oral policies. A large number of these are quite ridiculous, such as no marshmallows or no pancakes (both of these because of the mess they might create). These were enacted by old (but some still active) adults. I have worked hard to ease the strictness of this, but like the oral rules themselves, this has created problems, yet progress has been significant and positive.

One parent, working with her PL/son who was buying for a campout emailed me asking why the troop banned a cracker barrel or snacks for patrols. I replied that cracker barrels and snacks are encouraged, but that it should be a patrol effort with patrol food funds, and that individuals should not have food and snacks in their packs and tents. Clearly, to me, this was a misunderstanding, (perhaps exacerbated by the parent to make a point). This is one of several oral policies which are sometimes misunderstood by scouts and parents. So, one possible solution is put things in writing. Frankly, this is not the kind of thing I want to put in writing.

Our troop is young, as I have said repeatedly over the past 6 months. Activity guidelines which are good for our troop now, likely will not be so functional in 18 months when we have a larger and older troop. We may need to eliminate policies which no longer apply to more responsible and wizened scouts, while we may need to amend things to accommodate the expectations of future crossing Webelos.

On the same lines, the aforementioned PL constantly wants to wear different neckerchiefs to the meeting: OA, NYLT, NJjust about anything but the troop neckerchief. I, on the other hand, would prefer that he set the example for the scouts in his patrol and the troop by wearing the troop neckerchief. So our CC wants us to spell out exactly what is the troop uniform. Again, this is something already defined by the uniform insignia guide. As Stosh says, you cant legislate uniform wear by scouts, but you need to have an expectation which they can (eventually) adopt and enforce amongst themselves. We are 80% there but not quite all the way, yet. We do have our own uniform inspection sheet (designed around our uniforming expectations and easy to fill out for a patrol, using much less paper than the standard Boy Scout UI sheet).

Lisabob talks about turning this in to a kudzu like document, and I am struggling to keep this weed from growing out of control. I want the language to be exact but not so nit-picky that it becomes a cumbersome object, too unwieldy to actually use.

Much of my uniform draft is paraphrased from the insignia guide, but with less than a dozen sentences is much more concise. So for uniforms, here is what I have (well move on to other areas later):

IV. UNIFORMS:

A. Scouts and Scoutmasters are expected to wear their Class A uniforms at all meetings, unless otherwise specified in advance. Class A uniform is defined as a Uniform shirt (with all appropriate insignia), Scout pants and belt, Troop neckerchief and a slide (not tied in a knot), Scout socks, and appropriate footwear.

B. Scouts will travel to and from all campouts in a Class A uniform.

C. Scouts are encouraged to wear a Class B uniform while on outings. Class B uniform is defined as a troop or other BSA t-shirt and Scout pants or other similar colored pant; scout socks are preferred.

D. Merit Badge sashes should be worn for Court of Honors, for Star, Life, Eagle and Eagle Palm Boards of Reviews, and other special occasions.

E. There will be at least one uniform inspection each month.

F. The troop will maintain a uniform locker for scouts who need items. Families are encouraged to contribute old uniform items to the locker when older accessories no longer fit or when they are not used.

G. Sandals or any open toed shoes are not allowed as footwear at any meeting, activity or outing.

Please do not get off on a tangent about uniforms at BORs, as we have discussed that at length. This says should not must. The expectation is there, but the requirement is not. For the sake of uniform inspections, patrols are rewarded for their uniforming compliance, so they may suffer somewhat for not being attentative to their wear.

For the sake of uniforms, can I get some feedback, please?

I would be curious to know how many reported incidents (injuries, lost scouts, etc.) have occurred nationally while patrols were operating independantly with SM approval vs. while with a troop and 2 deep leadership.

Our troop is in the midst of some changes. This is a good thing. Our committee's spine is slowly evolving from all cartilage to something a little bonier. We are recruiting new, capeable adults (ASMs) who are going through training and open to new ideas. We are recruiting new scouts at an unexpected pace and we are training our scouts to lead the troop.

In the midst of all this, we are seriously looking at everything we do with the troop, and I have spoken of many of these things from time to time here on the forum. A recent conversation with our committee chair led to a discussion about putting into writing many of our policies. No, we are not talking about By-laws, but about policy guidelines. Specifically, we talked about: Fundraising, Advancement, Uniforming, Electronics, Discipline, Fundraising, and Parental Participation. By chance, I had already (several months ago) created a part of a similar document to cover things, but it was completely followed up on by the committee (different CC). The idea is not to enforce rules, but to provide a clearly defined framework of expectation for the benefit of the scouts, leadership and parents.

Untimately, this will be organized by a "sub-committee," but it was suggested that a select group of troop leadership present said committee with a draft document, pretty much ready to go that they could tweak, rather than giving less experienced leaders a blank slate to create their own vision of organization, which may be completely detached from the current leadership's expectations.

On the forum, we have recently talked about Electronics, so unless you feel compelled, we can skip that (the ideas presented a few months ago were excellent, by the way). I consider us to be a "fully uniformed" troop, so again that discussion issue is pretty much settled in our organization. Discipline, though discussed here at length in other threads is something I would like to revisit, but the same applies to advancement and parental participation.

I am not looking to draft a legislative document, but more of a set of broad guidelines, at times being specific and at others being more vague, as some situations need flexibility. Certainly, this is a broad topic, but what advice would you offer on these areas?

We use...our Treasurer. He is tight with the troop purse strings and would never spend the money on a program to do what he already does. He is retired and has the time to put into it. He was, by the way a programmer, so for him to reject software should indicate how miserly he is. Don't take that the wrong way--he has been our treasurer for almost 8 years now and he should be committed--I mean is a committed--asset to the troop.