Buffalo Skipper

moosetracker. What I meant was that on a blue card there is NO part which goes to the council, except prehaps the counselor copy of any underage staff member at camp. I worked as a counselor at camp for several summers back in the early 80s and I handled (along with the camp director) the blue card of every scout who went through my program area; I do not have the counselor copies of these cards as that was kept by the camp. I also have in my possession the blue card applicant of every merit badge I ever earned.

Before camp, I issue a Blue Card to every scout for the merit badges he is taking. If the camp does not collect and complete them, then we stamp the blue card (counselors signature) with the camp directors name and date. Partials are filled out by requirement, and returned to the scout with the name of a local counselor with whom they can complete the MB. I usually do this a few days after returning from camp in a meeting with he Advancement Coordinator. It takes a 2-3 hours, but MBs (and the scout portion of the blue card) are presented at the next meeting. Formal cards are presented at the next Court of Honor.

Councils never "used" Blue Cards. Blue Cards are used by troops. It contains 3 parts. One for the Counselor, one for the Scout, and one for the Troop. If a troop wants to use them, then: use them!

Restricted to whom?

Lots of different factors will come into play here. For one location (geography and climate). If you are in an area where longer trails are limited, or there are fewer shorter trails, then the troop may not get out as much with either day hikes or overnight backpack treks. Also it depends on your leaders. If few leaders want to hike, this may also limit the opportunities.

Our troop backpacks 2x a year (Warm up in December and a 3 day/night trek in January, further from home). In Utah, Dec/Jan would likely be too cold or snowbound to safely hike, but our summers are limited due to extreme heat and humidity. It is challenging to hike in 95 weather with 90%+ humidity. Dayhiking in such conditions can be draining.

Preparing scouts and easing them into hiking and backpacking is often best. Throwing them over their heads may be met with resistance and a bad experience which may not want to be repeated.

Fee structures will vary greatly from camp to camp/council to council. Our council rules are that if the unit we participate in both council fundraisers and FOS, we get the use of camp facilites for free (outside of council sponsored events). This includes camping, all buildings/meeting faciliites, and even camp canoes/trailers for troop canoeing events (we took 9 council canoes 5 hours away for a 60 mile canoe trip at no cost).

Opening a can of worms, but not trying to stir the pot.

On the new site, under Uniforms & Insignia > Hats & Caps it has only the following Boy Scout (not CS/Venturing) headgear--Campaign Hat and the Centennial Boy Scout Uniform Cap

Eagle92: "I admit I have not used Scouts Direct yet, but the Alps sleeping bag I got the wife for her birthday is AWESOME! My only regret is that it's hers and not mine"Scout Direct and Alps are the same company. If you buy the same products thru Scout Direct you get a 45% discount as a scout leader. Troops get a 55% discount for a one time troop purchase.

Rather than drag down my other thread, let me ask a very straight forward question with no strings attached:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE AND FUNCTION OF A TROOP COMMITTEE?

That is what puzzles me the most. I did call the UC, who is a close personal friend of mine, and in fact, we are co-workers (he retired 2 years ago, but he is here about 15 hours a week on an outside contract). He is someone with whom I speak almost daily on Scouting. He and I have taught classes together, and we almost always see things eye to eye. He agreed that there was no need for an ASM to be at a committee meeting unless specifically requested to attend. He hails from a troop with an extremely large and effective committee which is a model of effeciency; very different from ours.

There was no "sensitive" material on the agenda, but I can see where under certain circumstances there may be the need for a "closed" meeting. This was simply not that case.

The committee meets once a month on troop meeting nights. For the past few 2 years, we have not had sufficient ASM support to allow me (SM) to leave the troop meeting to attend the Committee Meeting. In the past 5 months, our ASM corps has grown in number and experience, and I have finally been able to attend and participate in committee meetings.

Last night, one of our ASM (parent of 2 scouts) was able to break away from the troop meeting (there were 3 other ASMs in attendance) and he came over to sit in on the committee meeting. As soon as he walked in, the Committee Chair leaned over to me and told me that ASMs were NOT to be at committee meetings, and that he had recently verified this with the UC. A little shocked, I suggested that as a parent, he had a right to be there and hear what was said. The CC replied that his wife could register to be on the committee and his family could be represented in that manner. The ASM did not interfere in the meeting, but was obviously present and engaged in the preceedings. When near the end of the meeting the CC asked if there was anything else or any questions, the ASM spoke up and asked what was being done to better communicate activities and happenings with parents (communication IS a real problem in our troop, as few adults really take the time to disciminate information except thru the scouts at a meeting; it is a problem I have been working to resolve, but that is not the point of this post. Spin off if you want to talk about this...). The CCs reply was pretty much what he has said privately to me, that as an ASM he should not be attending this meeting and his wife could join the committee.

I have looked through the Committee Guidebook, and have found only one reference to who attends. The statement is at the beginning of Chapter 4 and indicates that committee meetings are to be attended by Committee Members and the Scoutmaster. But there is no exclusion of ASMs from attending.

Frankly, I was stunned by this and I am unsure of how to proceed. I have no doubt that ASMs are not a part of the Committee, but to so openly oppose their presence just makes no sense to me.

My son has the Clearwater 20 mummy bag. Not the rectangle bag about which you inquired, but I can tell you the quality is great and he has on several occasions had it down to 20 with no problems. He really likes the bag.

Just my 2.

For those of you who may not be aware, one of our local scout leaders is hiking the Appalachian Trail. He goes by the trail name of Cimarron, and has led crews toPhilmont 15 times!

He hiked the entire trail several times in section hikes (completing over multiple years) but he is committed to hiking all of it in a single year.

A friend and fellow scouter is helping keep his journal updated on nearly a daily basis. For details on his exploits, read his trail journal here: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=337584(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

You can't really force a scout, but you can trick them a little.

We encourage rank advancement in different ways. First, we have a really cool board with name "chits" which are hung in groups by rank. Everyone can see what rank you are, and when a scout completes a BOR (most often same night), they are called before the troop, presented with their rank patch and move their chit from one rank to the next. Patrols compete for Patrol of the Month, and rank advancement is rewarded handsomely. This does not fix the problem you have presented, but it does foster an environment in which scouts want to advance, rather than be left behind or not support one's patrol.

For the youngest scouts, the PLC thru the PLs work with scouts on advancement. But it is not pushed. Remember that Baden-Powell said that "Advancement's like a suntansomething that happens naturally while you're having fun in the out-of-doors." The PLC plans a program which provides first year (and all) scouts the exposure to all the elements of the T-2-1 skills at activities and campouts throughtout the year. When a scout is working on Tenderfoot, the PLs ask for books and sign off requirements as scouts show competency. For 2nd Class, this happens less, but scouts are reminded that they may have completed requirements but have not had them signed off. By the time they are working on 1st Class, it is expected that a scout pretty much expected to intitate the signing off of any requirements they still need. If scouts are not advanceing, the SM (me) and the ASMs will have a SMC with the scout in a very informal manner, sometimes without the scout even realizing it has taken place.

As for parents, I occasionally have to remind parents that advancement in Boy Scouts is the scout's responsibility, and that every scout will advance at his own pace. I also may show them the latest (dated) report I have printed (from Troopmaster) showing progress of all scouts, indicating that I am aware of their progress, or lack of it. I also remind them that Advancement is only one method of scouting, and that exposure to all the methods of scouting in balance is what makes good scouts. If a parent is persistent, I may tell them that as a scout, I was slow to advance, especially at the lower ranks. I took 10 months to make Tenderfoot; and yet, I completed all the Eagle requirements before my 15th birthday. Never has this not been enough for our parents.

Hope that helps.

I believe the committee guidebook states that registered committee members may vote. It also states that the SM is not a member of the committee.

This is not a question of voting, but of attendance.

I have a few committee meeting questions. Who is allowed to attend a committee meeting? I don't mean vote, I men who is allowed and NOT allowed to be present?(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I once put together a proposal for a similar camp for our troop, but neither the scout nor the adults bought into the idea, so it died. But I did discuss it with the forum here.

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=281071#id_281071

I agree that with a T21 emphasis, limit the badges to 2. First Aid is a no brainer, but also consider something like Nature or Forestry. You may also consider setting up to do a partial on Cooking, for those scouts who want to participate. Also, do day hikes to places of interest (waterfalls, firetowers on mountains, etc). Try to plan one extra fun activity, like a 1/2 day horseback trek, river rafting or tubing, or climbing/repelling. What you plan depends upon your location and available resources. I think Wilderness Survival is a good badge, but to me, it is an expression of a combination of skill sets. I would encourage this after a scout is experienced at (and prehaps has earned) Camping, Pioneering and prehaps Cooking.

As for what others have posted, I am all for provisional campers, but not for a first time summer camp experience. I think that should be something which happens with the whole troop. We have 3 provisional campers this year at our council camp.

Good luck with the troop camp! I am envious that you are able to do this. It will be a great experience for the scouts!

I have additional material. PM me if you want to talk about this more.

OGE, I love the Rowboat #9 skit! It may well be my favorite of all time!

Two summers ago, the first year I took the troop as SM, I insisted that everyone wear our neckerchief, which is very unique and dates back nearly 75 years. Everyone balked, but on the way to chow on Sunday evening (our first meal) we passed a scout walking the other way who said smartly: "Cool neckerchief." Later in the week a staff member from England asked for one of our neckerchiefs to take home. It was given, and was the first time that I know of that a neckerchief was given to a non troop member.

I am all about uniforms at camp. But I work hard not to be the world's oldest SPL, and convincing the SPL and scouts to do this is sometimes challenging. Good for you Stosh that your troop "gets it."

The "Order of the Fork" award is given at the evening meal to a staff member agreed upon by the troop, who has done an outstanding job or something special. We keep the presentation brief, but start with the SPL up front and once he has the attention of the dining hall, the troop begins changing "Order of the Fork! Order of the Fork...!" He then gives a brief description of the OOTF and calls up the deserving staff member and presents the award: a varnished log plaque with a cocktail fork epoxied on as well as a troop "3" patch. Sometimes we also "crown" the staffer with a "princess" headband. It is often worn with distinction all week.

I am not looking for anything as overt as a daily award. But something more subtle. Last year we learned that our commissioner was a big fan of a particular brand of Root Beer, not sold at camp. We sent an adult into town to buy some, and there was a cold RB awaiting him every day he showed up for campsite inspection. At the end of the week, he announced that we had the highest score of any troop the whole summer, but we had made sure we earned every point we were given.

It is all in good fun, and the scouts have a great time with it all.

We had a scout last year who I recomended to take the BSA Lifeguard course. As was the case above, the camp leaders guide did not include the age requirement. However as SM, I advise and counsel every scout on every badge they take, so I researched the age requirement, which the scout met.

Different camps have different expectations on what merit badges scouts of different ages and experiences should take. I understand that for MBs, there is no age limit imposed by BSA, but I do respect the recomendations of camp programs.

Thank you, my friends, for your replies and input. We have some interesting dynamics coming together for our upcoming Summer Camp trip, and the ASPL and I (SPL is out of the country that week) are going to be sitting down to talk about camp. ASPL is a real natural leader and has the respect of the scouts. He wants to do some fun things with the troop for all else to see. Last year we tried bringing back an old troop tradition of presenting an "Order of the Fork" award daily to a staff member. But he asked about doing something else to "Set the troop apart..." (his words). I like the idea of everyone standing until everyone is ready to sit for dinner. --jtswestark, this was done at a camp where everyone was served cafeteria style, so everyone had to wait until all were served before sitting down.--

We were also the only troop to do a flag ceremony with a bugler, but our bugler is not attending camp this year; we do, however have another scout who plays trumpet and the troop has a loaner bugle to use.

Any other ideas on what I may pass on to the ASPL on what the troop can do to "rise above" the rest?

Last year at Daniel Boone, one troop would get their plates and all stand silently behind their chairs at the table until all members were present, then everyone would sit down at once. It made for an impressive sight.

I am curious to hear some of your troop's traditions at summer camp.

Anyone?

Wow. Polarizing topic. But aren't they all when talking about scout led.

We assign an adult to coordinate the scout leaders for the COH. The adult (often an ASM and or Advancement Coordinator) works with a scout who is responsible for the COH. Requirement 8 of Communications MB states: "Plan a troop court of honor, campfire program, or an interfaith worship service. Have the patrol leaders' council approve it, then write the script and prepare the program. Serve as master of ceremonies." Sounds like that should be done by a scout. The SM (me) working with our SPL works to identify a scout who is working on Communications MB and still needs this requirement, and he (SPL) assigns the COH to that scout. We have several experienced ASMs who guide and mentor the scout in the process, and the AC provides the list of advancements (and prepares advancement cards). The scout chooses the rank ceremonies and works out how to handle any presentations. Ranks and MBs are presented by scouts.

Typically the SM/ASMs will present one or two made up awards, and will address the parents and commend the scouts on any relevant accomplishements in the recent months. We may briefly review upcoming events as a way to get scouts fired up for the next few months. During refreshments, we have an adult organized slide show of photos from our events since our last COH. We are still a young troop; as we get older we are seeking out scouts to fill this role in lieu of the adults. That is our next step.

During the ceremony, the adults stay out of the way and let the scouts run with their plan. When it is done, we are always proud of our scouts for organizing and leading the COH.

Any word on what country they are made in? It would be nice if it was the good ole US of A, but I guess that would be asking too much...

Sorry, catching up on some old reading I have missed.

When I saw "Triple Crown" my first thought went to the (unofficial) Triple Crown of backpacking: The Appalachian Trail (2168 miles, Pacific Crest Trail (2645 miles) and the Continental Divide Trail (2558 miles).

I wonder how many National Camping Award Hiking rockers that would be good for....?

As a Scout, I was never elected to the OA by my troop. That was back in the 70s/80s. I was always disappointed, but rolled with it. Eventually I accepted an adult nomination (different discussion) and went through Ordeal.

Because I was not selected as a scout, I have worked hard to see that elections are run fairly. I make nomination forms with each eligible name on them. I also include on each ballot the instructions to choose as many candidates as you feel are deserving, and repeat that you can vote for more than one candidate.

The only scouts not selected were those who were not active with the troop at the time, who, for example, had not been to a campout in 5 or 6 months. I feel our elections have been very effective and well run.

I am looking for some feedback on how different troops handle meals for scouts in non-patrol leadership positions. Specifically, I am looking at where you may have your SPL or JASM take their meals. Do they eat as a guest in a patrol? Do they prepare their own meals, or do they eat with the adults?

Just trying to get some ideas to present to our PLC.