Buffalo Skipper

I concur that your QM has a handle on things.

In spite of that, I have a rather different perspective, since you are asking. This section is entitled "The Patrol Method." If your troop is that large, and your trailer is so very well equipped, wouldn't it be better to assign the necessary equipment to the patrol before a campout?  If a patrol does not check out and bring equipment, they should learn to be without it so that the next campout they will remember.  That's not to punish the boys, but making a mistake is the best way to learn. 

Short of something relating to safety, let them learn.  Our troop is not that big (any more--during the 70s-80s we were 70+ strong), so maybe I am missing some relevant logistical issues.

I think John-in-KC is right on in talking about discretion. In our pack, we have $1000 put aside annually for scholarships, uniforms and camperships. But we rely heavily on our Den leaders to (discretely) advise the committee when assistance may be needed (but prehaps not asked for). It is accepted that this is answered by the Committee Chair, Cubmaster and Treasurer, without involving the rest of the committee. In fact, I can't recall a single occation in which we did not simply pay as needed.

I don't think that program design based upon technical issues is a practical way of running a program. The "Communicating Well" video which accompanies the TLT program is a good example. Both the "scouts" in the video (SPL and ASPL, according to the insignia on their sleeves) are wearing Eagle knots. Is this a validation that we should allow scouts past the age of 18 to run for, be elected to, and run troop operations?

Use a little common sense. If the Uniform and Insignia guide states a uniform policy, why go to such trouble to dismiss its relevance? I can think of no OA function where wearing a MB sash is appropriate. Likewise, the MB sash is generally worn only at a CoH or maybe an Eagle CoH. Why would anyone wear an OA sash at these functions?

I have looked but not found one yet. I am most curious as to where the trained strip goes. Does it go in the same place (below pos) on the old uniform and (above pos )on the pocket flap of the new uniform? This would imply a different inspetion sheet for each old and new uniforms. If a leader completes training this fall and receives the new trained strip, where does he put that if he has an old shirt?

And does a Venturing leader place the new strip on the green uniform shirt? Thankfully we don't wear trained strips on our sea scout uniforms.

As rhetorical, as that rant sounded, I coordinate Position Specific Training (Cub Scout through Sea Scout) for my district, so I would really like to find the answers.

"...looks like the traffic on the NJ Turnpike during rush hour -a little slower and without the advetising, of course."

Areyou saying that NASCAR is slowerand has less advertising than theTurnpike or the reverse?

Eagle92,

I think you really hit the nail on the head here. I have several uniforms which I wear for different occasions. For a cub scout function, I wear my youth achievements, and cub scout related awards, but I don't haveBoy Scout awards or others which are less relevant to a cub scout audience.

On the other hand, as cubmaster back in 2006 with the "Cub Scout Shipbuilders" theme, I wore my Sea Scout whites with a CM patch temporarilystitched on the sleeve. I had several cubs come up and ask about my Seabadge Trident and other uniform parts not seen on my Cubmaster uniform. I even had one den leader ask why I didn't wear my Cubmaster award on my whites.

Have I really become a better leader for earning awards. Maybe, maybe (k)not. I am an active supporter of training (I stepped down as Cubmaster to be the Pack Trainer), and I strongly encourage other leaders to follow up on awards. Every den leader I have worked with over the past 5 years who has not completed the requirements for an award has only failed because of not participating in Roundtable. Would that have made them better leaders? Very possibly.

Show me a pack whose leaders have no knots, and more often than not this will be a unit whose leaders have not all been to training, do not attend Roundtables, do not have good youth retention, and are generally out of step with what is happening in the District and Cub Scouting in general. Who suffers for this? The leader who doesn't wear a knot? Certainly not! It is the cub scout who is being denied the best possible program. I would say that this "trend" applies as much to Troop leaders as well.

I had a leader with whom I worked with our pack. He proudly wore his Eagle knot, but refused take any interest in any of the cub scout awards. One day, we were talking about it and he said, "I wear the only important one."

I appreciate the value of an Eagle scout, but I really felt he was missing the point. We insist (at the boy scout/venturing level) that the youth take the initiative to puruse their own advancement, and we are suposed to movivate them as leaders. Should we not lead by example by following the recognition program BSA has established for adults?

I understand completely! The WDBoyce knot is as much a train wreck as Amy Winehouse. Luckily in this case, I found a supplier who makes this knot in a style like the rest of the scouting knots.

I sew every patch; and I have far too many uniforms, working in every program from Cub Scouting to Sea Scouting.

I taught my son (Webelos) to sew, and he put on all of the patches on his own uniform (talk about pride, he beams when he wears it!). It is all straight or perfect? Scout sewn patches sure look that way to me.

I strongly discourage badge magic amongst parents (and scouts). I work with Troop 3; what if someone came out of Pack 425 or 32? That'll leave a mark!

Our troop supplies many of the scout's patches. When we went to summer camp several months ago, we brought needle and thread and extra patches, to ensure everyone was wearing the correct rank, pos and patrol patches. Easy to fix.

Personally, I like the Guttermann thread, and when I can match the color, I always use heavy duty upholstry or button thread. Very durable stuff.

As it applies here, you have to change regardless. I mean that atWebelos-Scout crossover the number changes as there is no troop with the same number as the pack. I was trying to describe what happens when a webelos changes from theblue to tan uniform;with the blue,there was a single patch of say "400" and with the tan there are3 patches of "4"-"0"-"0," because there will not be a tan "400" patch.

Yes, this is not the case with all packs and troops, but locally, less than half the troops have a cooresponding numbered pack.

Our troop also crosses over with new tabs and neckerchief (our neckerchief's are custom made, by the way and date back to the 1930s, when one of the scout leaders owned an Italian restaurant, donated napkins for use as neckerchiefs.Neckerchiefs are presented to scouts only when they have camped overnight with the troop, so only those Webelos who have camped with the troop get a neckerchief at crossover). But I don't want to hijack the thread with this.

Thanks for the info, that is good to hear. I really did not like the appearance of this particular knot as it did not "match" the other cub scout knots.

I am hoping they will go with something like this one:

...blue uniforms will keep the red and white numbers and Webelos...will get the tan and green numbers.

I think this is a logistical mistake. I believe that there are many things which should be considered here, including logistics (which vary greatly from council to council).

Here is anexample of what I mean(and there are many packs/troop number combinations which will be in the same boat here...). The our local scout store has kept in stock "muliple number" single patches (like "400" or "614"). It is impractical to order these in both red/white and tan/green, if there is no cooresponding troop with the same number. As a result, cub scouts will have aa single red patch reading "400", buta webelos uniform will have a cooresponding"4," a "0" and a "0."

I am not complaining about the uniform--I have privately hoped (not knowing it was in the making) for a uniform very much like this for several years. I just think they should keep (as policy) that all Cub Scouts and Webelos wear red numbers (on both blue and tan uniforms).

Like each of us here, we all have had different experiences, which, leads each of us to a different perspective on your question. I feel I am fortunate, that here in my district, more troops than not are pretty close to #2 as you describe. But I see #1 and #2 as not being that far off. Have you read BP's Aids to Scoutmastership? You can find it on the web for free, without too much trouble. Sure there are some differences in today's BSA from what BP discusses, but I am amazed at how dead on he was in that book, even though it was written some 89 years ago.

The more I learn about BP, the more respect I gain for him. There was intuitiveness about his approach rarely seen, even in skilled leaders. Aids to Scoutmastership is more about the "how" of reaching scouts rather than the technical aspect of running a troop. I look to it for inspiration and guidance as much as I look to the SM handbook. One of my favorite sections is entitled "Why a Troop Should Not Exceed 32"; another is "Patrol Leaders' Council--Court of Honour" (thats court as in a judicial, disciplinary body).

I always keep my binder close by. It contains the SM Handbook, Committee Guidebook, Safe Guide to Scouting andAids to Scoutmastership. I have read each cover to cover several times and refer to them regularly.

When I first stepped into our troop, we had about 10 scouts, and though not in a bad position, the troop was struggling. It was boy led, but barely. Over the past years and with the support of the SM and other leaders, slowly re-introduced youth training, the patrol method, effective PLCs and consistent uniforming. We are up to 20 boys and are preparing to recruit and cross over another 2 dens from 2 packs this year. These things take time, but they do work if you work your plan.

I used to be a Buffalo, a good ole Buffalo too!

SR-773

Tatanka!

Has anyone seen the "official" Pack Trainer knot yet? I have found at least 4 different designs on the internet. Any idea which will be the final issue? The first of the applicants will be eligible this Monday, but as best I can tell, these have not yet been sent to the council scout shops, even those who have ordered them.