Buffalo Skipper

trainerlady, I am certain that if you contact the Sequoyah Council, they will be glad to pass along the contact information. It was Week 5, and now that I think about it, I believe they were from Detroit. If you contact the troop, be sure to let them know that "Troop 3" refered you; that'll raise an eyebrow.

CA_Scouter, there is a close connection to the camp and Davy himself, who was born about a dozen or so miles from where the camp is located. They spun a good ole Davy Crockett tale at the opening campfire, which set the tone for the week. Another historical point is that President Andrew Johnson spent his teenage years and much of his adult life in and around Greeneville, TN, some 20 miles from the camp.

In reference to the "parent letter," I was refering to jtswestark's "...letter and parent signature." I am interested on how their troop involves the parents in this. I doubt that we would ever require a "form," but I have seen occasions where less involved parents had no clue about the responsibilities of a position. I just wanted to hear more, that was all.

I find it interesting that most here had nominations come through the SM. Not saying that is right or wrong, only that I expected to see some troops having their scouts more involved with the process.

Keep the ideas coming....

I would like to hear more about the parent letter and also why someone cannot hold the same position in concecutive terms.

And does anyone NOT do self nominations?

Pray tell....(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

What about nominations? How far in advance of the election are your nominations accepted? One week? Two? Same night? And how do you handle nominations (SPL and PL)?

So, I would like to hear how your troops handle elections for SPL and how your patrols handle elections for PL.

Specifically I am looking for who actually "runs" the election processes, how nominations are made and what, if any, troop policies you have in place to govern this process, including "eligibility" requirements.

Following elections, how do you handle appointed positions, such as Scribe, QM, Chaplain's Aide, etc? Is the slate wiped clean and the new SPL assigns these positions?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I use the process created by Troopmaster. It is under Reports> Awards/Advancement> 'Blue' Cards.

The blank sheets are sold by Troopmaster, and are printed 2 to a sheet. Our troop bought a duplex laser printer just for this purpose, and it was worth the money, in my opinion. I printed out all the Blue Cards from summer camp in under an hour. In my opinion, one of the best tools in Troopmaster.

Trainerlady, there was a troop from Michigan there last week! All participated in the Frontiertown program. Talking to them about it on Friday around the campfire, it appears they had a great time.

Well, as I never got any feedback from anyone, I figured I would offer some to others who may consider this camp in the future.

We attended for week 5, July 10-16. The camp is located in the foothills NW of Knoxville, in the town of Whitesburg, TN, and is on the Cherokee River, and consists of 2800 acres, almost entirely undeveloped. The camp facilities are average, at best, and could stand upgrading, but are not in disrepair. The campsites are nice and well shaded, which is nice in the summer heat. They have an old pool for swimming and utilize lakefront for boating. They pride themselves on their Shooting program, and I can say that they do run a very tight ship here. All our scouts qualified on Rifle and Shotgun; the counselors here were outstanding. Their COPE course is well maintained, and their instructors are top notch. The only other high adventure program offered is a Frontiertown, a period camp dating to the late 1800s with blacksmith, blackpoweder and related skills and badges. None of our scouts attended, but it appeared to be a well run program.

What we liked best about the camp was the staff and the program. There was almost nothing the staff would not do for a scout or your troop if asked. The program during flags (before breakfast and dinner) was particularly fun. In addition to a song (which was always executed with vigor and enthusiasm), they strongly encouraged troops to publically challenge one another to, well whatever! One challenge per meeting. The challenged troop (or staff) would either accept or decline. It really promoted inter-troop relations and everyone had a great time of it. Most challenges were serious, but others were creative and fun. We challenged several troops to a potato sack race, horseshoes and ring toss. We were challenged to ultimate frisbie and "slaps." One troop challenged the staff to "eat last," which was enthusiastically declined (staff eats first so they can return to program areas, both in the morning and for extra activities after dinner).

Our SPL and scouts really stepped up their game, and took on extra projects daily. Program at this camp did not require "waiter duty," but our scouts wanted to help out so stayed to sweep, mop and clean after every meal. I mentioned in an earlier thread that our PLC decided to stand at the table after going through the food line, until all members of the troop were present to sit in unison. By the end of the week four (4) troops were standing as well and several had scouts assist ours cleaning the dining hall. On Wednesday, we challenged all other troops to help us clean the dining hall. One or two shouted "Accept!" but several SPLs boldly replied "Declined!" only to be met with smacks on the back of their head by their SM. Most of those who declined approached out SPL to see how they could help.

It was great to see the scouts take these responsibilities upon themselves and make the troop really shine. Our scouts daily presented (at evening flags) an "Order of the Fork" award to their favorite staff member of the day. Then a special award at the end of the week. Any staff member who received it treated it like a badge of honor and boasted all week about how much it meant to them. By the end of the week, the kitchen staff made our troop a full pan of banana-peanut butter pudding, which was brought out to our scouts in front of all the other troops. It came with a "thank you" card signed by the entire kitchen crew. We also did several camp improvement projects which were well received by the ranger and his staff.

After MBs on Friday, the camp put on games at the pool, lakefront, shooting range, (scoutcraft) across the camp and a scavanger hunt. Our scouts and adults took 9 ribbons and ended up the the staff's "Troop of the Week" award (I suspect it may have been a unanimous vote!).

The scouts left with a genuine feeling of pride and a real sense of accomplishment. All are eager to return next year, and I am looking forward to the next few months to see how well they work together and grow. If our camp experience is any indicator, it is shaping up to be a great year for our troop and our scouts!

We would recommend Camp Davy Crockett to any troop looking for a bargin camp ($180 out of council) and a fun program.

The Quartermaster IS the equipment supply puzzle. We have 2 scout QMs who handle/oversee distribution of patrol equipment (kept in our spacious QM closet) before a campout. During loading, one QM loads/supervises the loading of the trailer, while the other works with the Patrol QMs to ensure that the patrols have what they need; this process is reversed and the equipment inspected upon return. They maintain inventory, inspect equipment condition (upon return from campouts) and ensure it is in working order during the campout (if the patrols need this help). They work closely with the Patrol QMs, who may change from month to month.

There is an ASM who is our Equipment Coordinator, and he mentors these scouts the same way I (SM) mentor the SPL and ASPL. He may make recomendations on equipment, but works strongly in a mentoring capacity. While the PLC meets, the ASM/EC and QMs meet to review equipment condition and overall needs.

Hope this helps.

Nothing brightens my day like reviving an old thread, don't you think?

Well we are off to camp in two days. Our old bugler, about whom I talked earlier, is still officially our bugler. However, following our camp last year, he seems to have lost his bugle (had it at camp and used it but it never arrived at home ). On a few outings, he has brought his trumpet, but only occasionally. In spite of this, he steadily improved in his playing and confidence. He never completely grasped the concept of why he was playing; in other words, he never really got that bugling was a way of communicating.

We have now had another scout (who plays the trumpet in middle school) step up and ask to play at camp. One of our leaders loaned him his bugle last night, and the first time he has ever picked up a bugle, he played a perfect taps. Brought a tear to my eye. He immediately went to the (acting) SPL to discuss what he wanted him to learn for camp. As he only has 2 days to practice, it was agreed that he would learn: Assembly, Mess, Reveille, To the Colors, Retreat and Taps. I was impressed that both these scouts understood the importance of the bugle and appreciated its functional application. FWIW, the SPL does not play an instrument.

I am looking forward to a great camp with a bugler, who even if he is a novice to the bugle, is eagerly embracing this responsibility.

It does, sort of. I would presume that a scout who was camping with a tarp and ground cloth would have an advanced skill set. As such, he would have enough knowledge and experience to choose a better site, one that was less prone to flooding. But that is just me.

It does not, however, answer the smart remark I made about a hammock (yes, I know it was a smart remark, and not exactly on topic, but easily related). Proper hammock camping is significantly more LNT than a tent could ever be. With the proper setup, it will have less impact on a tree or its bark than a clothesline. It is also lighter, much more flexible and tremendously more comfortable. I can pitch my tent over ground at 45 angle, over rocks, roots and even over a stream (if the trees are right) or in a swamp. So long as I am below the tree line, and not in the open desert, I can find a place to hang. When I cannot, my hammock becomes a convenient bivy with a very good covering. I have never gotten even the slightest bit wet in my hammock. I have camped in temperatures from 21 - 80 and never been too cold or too warm. I cannot imagine that Philmont has a valid excuse for banning a hammock which has absolutely no basis in fact.

Sorry I had to vent about this. My camping and backpacking has improved immeasurably since I left the ground began hanging. I have not slept on the ground or in a cot at a boy scout function since September, I hope I never have to sleep on the ground again. Probably won't go to Philmont for that reason alone.

The Cub Scout program does, in a way. Baloo.

I saw some of the nylon tents while at Camp Daniel Boone last year. They were sweet! They have a vented top, and screened "window" sides adjacent to each cot. The weather flaps (front and back) are closed with velcro, and just inside of that are screens with heavy duty zippers. The color is lighter than a scout shirt. I am fairly certain they are the same size and shape as the old canvas tents, so they will mount over extiting pipe frames.

I have pictures, but they are not posted online. These are very nice tents! I spoke to my council program director about them, and he said they cost about the same as their canvas cousins. Sure would be nice if more camps replaced the old canvas with these. In my opinion, they are a huge improvement.

But hammocks are prohibited.

Oak Tree, yes I agree. The rule is confusing, and does not appear to be based in fact. I am not promoting an anarchistic approach to Philmont's rules, but I try to teach scouts to be logical and reason things out. Whenever possible, I don't set down a rule, but instead try to guide the scout to making a "good" decision.

I am also trying to promote a more lightweight approach with our scouts as they gain experience. A scout who wants to take a 25 oz tarp or tarptent rather than a 5 lb solo tent is likely to be much more confident in his abilities. And a scout carrying an 20 lb backpack is much more likely to enjoy his backcountry experience than a scout carrying a 20 lb pack.

Sorry if I came across as ranting in my earlier responses.

Uniforming is always an issue for us in our troop. But this past Saturday, we had a PLC and, amongst other things, discussed uniforming at camp. The SPL will not be attending camp with us, and the ASPL is a dynamic young man, and a great up-and-coming leader in the troop. He proposed that we wear full field uniform (class A) to both breakfast and dinner. He made a convincing argument to support this, and the PLC voted UNANIMOUSLY (I just about fell over!) to wear a uniform at all flag ceremony/meals.

Can't wait to see how this works out at camp. One and a half weeks to go!

Here are some photo examples of tarps and tarptents:

Sorry, but I don't agree with this being a "bear safety issue." The tarp itself is not a bear safety issue, but how the scout chooses to use it may be. How does one cook in inclement weather if they have a small backpack tent? And how would camping in a tarp mean that one could (or should!) not follow similar procedures? In other words, for the sake of bear safety, NO ONE should cook at their sleeping site, whether that is a tarp, tent, hammock, or hard shelter. Weather does not change this as an issue of safety.

Again, I consider this an issue of ignorance. Safety is safety, and rules are rules. In this case the equipment compromises neither safety nor LNT, so long as the safe practices are followed.

Another possibility is to see if there are any scholarship funds available throught the YMCA or a local community pool. Our District has teamed up with a local NPO which promotes swimming (especially, but not exclusively for the handicapped), and there are scout scholarship funds available through the scout office. It is a great opportunity, if you can find similar resources in your area.

Good luck!

Based on the responses, I can only assume that most here are less than familiar with backpacking shelter tarps. Basically, these are more like a "shell," staked directly to the ground and suspended with one or two hiking poles. Sometimes one point may be tied to a tree, but an occational tieout to a tree is a fraction the impact of repeatedly pitching tents with floors on the ground. I just don't buy the LNT argument. As far as mice go, hantavirus is not spread by contact with mice but by contact infected mice excrement. Site selection can reduce the odds of this just like site selection can keep your tent dry.

A few clarifications. First there were changes made to the (individual) National Camping Award during its last year of existance. That last year it required that all camping be done under the auspices of the BSA. Similar language was edited for the Camping MB the same year.

The National Outdoor Challenge requires uses similar language: "...under the auspices of the BSA...." This need not be a troop activity. This could be a patrol activity, time/activity while working on a MB, or as part of a contingent crew, such as while attending Philmont, Northern Tier or Seabase. Also, if a scout is dual registered with a Venturing crew, he may apply activities/time/mile toward the National Outdoor Challenge. But keep in mind this is NOT a Venturing Award, so one must be dual registered to recieve credit for any time spent out with a Venturing crew.

Hope that didn't muddy the water too much.

Related as regards the UNIT National Camping award: Our troop was able to turn in the paperwork and receive the 500 night national camping award (504 days) the last year it was available. We have lost some camping records from the late 90s, so we likely have more, but that is all we could prove. We turned it in unaware that the award was about to be discontinued.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

We do a 2-nite campout every month of the year. We also do a week of summer camp. For the last 2 years, we have tacked on a semi-high adventure weekend the 2 nights before summer camp, which has proven to be very popular. Some years we do a 5-night in August. 1.5 years ago, we did an additional 4 nights at a council winter camp. That adds up to 32-40 nights a year. This year, the PLC will also have a 2-night leadership training camp.

We meet once a week, every month. The only exception has been the week of summer camp and the Tuesday between Christmas and New Year (but this year we will be camping that week). During the summer, the PLC often tacks on an additional activity (not an overnight) for each month, often water oriented. Recent examples are a canoe river clean-up day (free from the outfitter), a water skiing day/cookout, and a surfing day. Our scouts frequently say these are their favorite events of the year!

I don't understand troops that break during the summer. We have taken the opposite approach (ramp UP!), and it may have become one of the best things our troop has done.

I definately need to order that one ASAP. Will review with everyone how it is....

Please provide a link. I cannot find them....

Wow. I'm not sure what else to say.