PACAN

Camp Rodney in Maryland just announced they are closed for the season.

8 hours ago, Navybone said:

Two thoughts, First - MBs are only a check in the block is the scouts leadership lets it be.  If you teach scouts standards and the need to meet them early, you can instill in them the same outlook on standards throughout their lives.  You let them pencil whip it or ignore it, what is the lesson they learn.  And you can control this.  Second - if this is what you see in the value of scouting and the ability to impact a scouts life, why are you doing this?  For some, we are the primary influence.  For some, we may be the only opposing view of that they learn or hear at home.  And I firmly think we should be there for those "some" scouts.  Otherwise, why is Eagle Scout held in such regard?  Why do people spend their hard earned cash and time on scouts?

I think you misinterpreted...maybe your experience is different but scouts still procrastinate until the last minute and therefore are only concerned with checking off the last blocks on their MBs.   You can yell, scream, jump up and down, cajole and explain keeping ahead of the game but they still do what they do.  Eventually it is their responsibility. Why is the average age a scout earns Eagle 17.8 y/o.

The value of scouting to me is enormous.  Been doing this for close to 50 years. However you cannot get in the middle of a family's responsibility when it comes to their role as parent. You will lose every time.   I have had single parents, homeless scouts, ugly divorces, parental deaths and other tragic situations where the leaders have provided a great amount of assistance as far as we could so please take a step back when you ask me why I do this. 

@Navybone

The point on B-P is that rational decisions and thought processes are devoid in people today.     There are folks who want to remove the Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial.

The question  on the pamphlet vs a MB is making it Eagle required is where do you want the BSA to inject itself in this area?   My point is early.  This will overtime become another last minute MB done to check the block.  Also believe it or not we are not the primary influence on a boys life.   We see then an hour and a half a week and once a month on an outdoor event if we are lucky.  Just as in Family Life MB family meeting requirement there are sensitive topics that are discussed and we are not going to inject ourselves in these.

Again JMHO with recognition that nobody asked me and nobody will.   Enjoy.

IMHO....this is a family discussion issue just like the YPT pamphlets for Scout Ranks and Cubs.   This is not just a BLM issue, it spans across all ethnic and other groups who experience racism possibly including groups we don't agree with?   

With an almost 600,000 loss of membership in the last year. The BSA needs to focus on their current issues that could put them out of business. 

Adding an Eagle Required MB is unnecessary.    If you want to inculcate this into scouts you make American Cultures a required MB for Tenderfoot.  Doing it as the last MB the night before a scout turns 18 does nothing for the scout or the younger guys.  Will this be a required line of questioning for the Eagle BOR?  All BORs?  How do you show diversity and inclusion diversity in your scouting actions?

Will the BSA eliminate the OA?   Indian Lore MB? 

Will they remove all references to Baden Powell from the history of the BSA?  Does the term Brownsea get axed?

Again JMHO. 

Just curious....has anyone ever had a potential new Scout's parent tell you that they were joining because this is such a great value and way cheaper than the X activity we were going to sign him up to do.

Commendable that you want the scout to come to his own conclusion.  First question "did you read through the entire workbook?"  since he is required to attest to that when he signs the Candidate's promise.   Page 4 would give him his answer on Routine Maintenance.   Your advisor answer to him is no.   Remember 9.0.2.3  A good test of any project is to evaluate its complexity. 

@Cburkhardt  you are very fortunate to have the unit you have with apparently zero resource issues.    My guess is that you are in the minority of units.     With a 1/3 reduction in the youth membership (LDS included) this year a number of units have likely folded.    The continued comparison the "other activities" that middle class families spend their money on is a tired argument.   Raising the cost of service is a part of doing business but you cannot assume the "don't worry, be happy" increase will even keep those in the program, in the program.  If the service and/or product is not attractive you are done.

The organization needs to right size itself.  We wil never have 4 million youth again.   It needs to do a risk assesssment of the impact of their decision instead of the usual "all in favor" method.   These figureheads on the national EB are in the business world where they do risk assessments every day.   

JMHO. 

And don't forget councils will charge their own $66.00 "activity fee" per scout and $42/adult as National has already allowed councils to match up to the National fees last year.

Congrats.

you also have figured out the way out of bankruptcy.....they will use the "cent " sent to your council for his paperwork.🤑

I see none of these sacred cows going away.   The closest one I can see are STEM scouts  Certainly everyone of them on the list need to be evaluated and streamlined.

For example...the scout rank requirements have gone beserk over the past 5 years.    2 pages of TF and 3 pages each for 2nd and 1st in the annual requirements books.  Example...first aid requirements in each rank...just have FA MB required for TF.    Unless your argument is since your can work on all three rans at the same time, why have three.

Eagle scout projects procedures and approvals can be streamlined.  The process got this way due to units running boys through sucj a meatgrinder to get approval, they gave up.  Most of the time it due to one individual who didn't like the scout.

CORs are like any other part of the organization, some are great, some are lousy.   Turning this over to the councils would be a disaster as the CORs/IHs are one of the few ways units can call foul on their antics.

Commissioners and District Committees....problem here is that these individuals do not stay current.  I have seen district advancement people who had never cracked open the GTA and Commissioners who didn't know there was a new Eagle WB years after it came out.    KILL the Doctorate of Commissioner service program.

MB Fairs...the reason there are bad ones is because no one does any oversight from the council and SMs don't do their part to call them out on them. Same goes for summer camps.  when the standard on the camp inspection is "do you have  MBs here?" it's game over on execution.

Council Executive Boards need to step up and do their jobs and not rubber stamp powerpoint presentations and fail to communicate with the units.

Enough rambling...as I said the professionals will be so focused on staying alive, they will not do much effort on the rest.

No one asked the new guy to tell us what sacred cows he thought should be eliminated either.  🤨

I think  dkurtenbach was using Gordon Ramsey as an example that we need some no nonsense, asking the hard questions people cutting through some of these inefficient processes.

When a commissioner takes your charter and counts the names and does the multiplcation ($60x20 = 1200)  on a separate "special sheet" and then says "that matches your form"  it is unneccessary and makes the council look like they think we are idiots.   I hit send when the charter says no errors and refuse to participate in their nonsense. 

My pick would be John McEnroe whose favorite saying to the umpires was "you can't be serious".

And then it still takes 4 months to "process" through the black hole

And we counsel MBs not council them 

1 hour ago, carebear3895 said:

My guess are council paid membership programs. I.E. scoutreach, restoring the village, etc. 

STEM Scouts, LFL, Scoutreach eg.  Everything not CS, BS, V.   

Wonder how some councils can continue to fund these programs?

Approximately 1650 year end.

Cburkhardt....how can we watch the national business meeting?  Do you have a link? Thanks 

Is this risk of property sales more for bankruptcy or council insolvency due to summer camp revenue losses?

    Just released. 

Cburkhardt...thanks for the info (I think).  Not clear how the powers that be can say the program won't change.  What do we define as the program?    We will see what details get shared by our key threes or if they will be under their usual stellar communication with their councils.    

Also i wonder if they addressed the elimination of poor councils, property sales (Local and national both) and mergers.  Given the Covid and the advent of virtual summer camps, why do we need dirt camps anymore. 😣

Anyway...keep us posted as you have as you hear more.

Probably a bit late on this but my input would be:

Improve communication and customer service  up and down and sideways in the organization.  Our forum should not be the source of official communications (but we are cool) 

Focus on a massive streamlining of all advancement, training and minutia that detracts from programs and makes adults not want the hassle of spending hours on non value added items

Eliminate the franchise organizational set up...allow units to go to the best support they can.   Units are trapped in poor service.

Eliminate underperforming councils...make their JTE a true outside evaluation not an internal check the boxes. 

JMHO. 

So will there be "LDS" troops and packs registered through the local councils?   They would have to be to earnBSA  ranks etc .  We have some scouts who were in LDS sponsored units who have joined us.  If this is just a way for scouts of the LDS church to earn religious awards where will these scouts find counselors trained in the requirements of these?  Their Bishop?   

i don't think the other religious organization would ever have an organization like what you are setting up but good luck to you. 

@Cburkhardt  Here is what is on the Maryland DNR page..not a ringing endorsement of large attendance camps.  Did you see something else?

CAMPING

Effective Thursday, May 7, at 7 a.m., DNR will begin accepting reservations for overnight tent and RV camping in state forests, parks, and other campgrounds, however:

• Campers must be with immediate family members or people with which they reside.
• Guidance on social distancing must be followed.
• No parties or reservations for more than 10 people will be granted for any one site.

I saw where virtual camp outs will count toward OA camping requirements.  

These events are fundraisers for councils.   If anyone actually reads the BSA guide to group instruction (LOL) class sizes advertised in some places are way out of line.  As much as scouters and parents rail against MB universities where scouts have to actually meet with a MBC, these seem to be yeah...give us more.  The way of the future?

Moderators....can you split off the virtual mb posts into a separate topic?