Hawkwin

5 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

But does BSA say that it’s only for adult scouters? Not that I know of.

Scouts are not required to complete the online YPT.

14 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Life over Liability. I can live with that.

That was my opinion as well, but I would like to get something affirmative on this. We have a den hike coming up and I would rather be safe than sorry.

11 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Do not confuse YPT and Two Deep leadership

YPT designates (in this instance) no one on one contact.  In the case of an injured, but let us assume ambulatory Scout; one leader, the injured youth, and a buddy can return to the trailhead.  The other leader and the rest of the youth can continue.

But the other leader and the rest of the den no longer has 2-deep leadership. Also, what does the leader and the buddy do when the other youth is evacuated? (assume parent arrives to take them to a medical facility) You are now again in a situation where the buddy and the leader may find themselves in 1 on 1 contact.  

27 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

How can one say " I love God but I refuse to do what He says" ?     

I was raised Southern Baptist in the deep South where I was still paddled in school and wearing shorts was not permitted in school (showed too much skin). I remember being told to break my rock and roll records because when they were played backwards, they told us to do sinful things.

Hating the sinner was a big deal with my church and religion. It wasn't until much later in life that I learned that we should have hated the sin and not the sinner. Even if you believe being gay is a sin, it is no worse a sin than any others - and yet we are still told to love the sinner.

If you are a follower of Jesus, then you should know that Jesus spent his time with sinners. Church was created for the sinners. If you believe in all of that, then BSA is a great place for our fellow sinners regardless of sexual orientation - we are all sinners, right? How many scouts (and scouters) have you kicked out for premarital activities?

We ALL refuse to do what he says. That is the very nature of sin. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Who wants to step forward and be the first to judge? Not I.

How do you handle YPT requirements when they conflict with emergency situations?

You are 1.5 miles out on a 5 mile hike with your den and a scout is injured. There are just two leaders on the hike. What do you do?

If there are three leaders, what do you do?

6 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Gentlemen, these are all great ideas for troop communication, but none address my original question. How is this rule going to prevent inappropriate contact or false accusation?

Nothing prevents a false accusation but a written digital record is certainly a stronger defense than a verbal one.

Digital also a better protection against inappropriate contact for the same reason. Even when my son forgets to copy me (or a member of the troop forgets to add me in their reply), I can simply log into my son's email to see what was received or sent. I don't get any of that if it was a phone call.

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

The whole Girl Scout Movement is buzzing with anticipation leading up to G.I.R.L. Agenda 2018: Leading Change Through Civic Action.

 I sure hope this comes with some sort of structure as the current program has almost none.

Today I received an enthusiastic email from a local female architect in response to my request for our den to meet with her as part of the Build It requirement for Webelos/AOL electives. The lady works for the firm that designed our new local Girl Scout building.

The irony of the fact that we would never had done this as part of Girl Scouts is not lost on me - or my daughter.

2 hours ago, fred johnson said:

Plus ... if you really want Eagle to be meaningful ... Get it off the college application check box.  Stop ranking up enlistees because of it.  Get it off the resume.

Much value in that advice.

Some things are worth more because we chose to do them when they are only meaningful to ourselves.

47 minutes ago, wisihalacon said:

My misspelling. It is Tutelo Lodge. My old lodge Wisi Hal'a Con is also gone.

I think someone has made a mistake and is for whatever reason unwilling to correct the error and move forward. Unfortunately, there is the problem that one of our scouts is unable to be tapped out here the next ordeal and their election expires before the fall ordeal.

Isn't the election good for one year? My son was recently elected (was not at the tap out) and he was told he could do either the Spring or Fall Ordeal.

On 5/12/2018 at 7:08 AM, Eagle1993 said:

When I talk with female scouters there are complaints that the shirts and pants don’t fit women’s bodies.  They are cut for men’s shapes.   One example I heard is on pants.  Girls have larger hips after puberty.  Breasts are also cause the tops to not fit in many cases.  Many women leaders simply don’t buy the pants or buy pants at 3rd party stores that kinda match.  Uniform shirts they just deal with.  Finally, some religions require that women not wear pants... or so I’m told.  That said I know Orthodox Jews don’t allow pants but they require full length skirts... so I’m not sure what religion would require skorts.

To me the styles should be identical, but I’m ok with different sizes and fits. 

How is that currently any different with Venturing? Are not their uniforms the same but cut differently for women?

If so, seems the logical option would be to do the same for Scouts - simply change the cut.

While we are on the subject of uniforms, I've never had a male uniform that fit well. Just bought new pants and had to have the legs tapered when getting them hemmed.

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

 some measure of extra hoopla for the first MALE Eagle Scout.

Ya, but how many Eagles did we have in 1912? Last year we had something like 56,000 - over 1,000 a week. I would assume that we will probably have a few dozen if not a few hundred girls that are all approved at the same time by the National Advancement Program Team. I would think that BSA would want to discourage Troops from trying to game the system by having a single first and instead simply confirm that all applicants during XXX period will be approved by the NAPT on the same day ; thereby reducing the rush to be the first to pass their BOR.

10 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

 wouldn't having one Pack winner meet that need of inclusivity more? 

Perhaps, but it isn't my pack and if the goal is to solicit the opinions of the parents - then you have to ask the parents and not assume what is the best outcome. No reason to have a survey otherwise - and they might come to the same decision.

Questions pertaining to joint/coed den activities vs single den (single gender) den activities.

Should extracurricular activities be gender-based. I.e. Pinewood derby - should there be a girl winner and a boy winner or just a pack winner? How about best in show awards for the best looking cars, gender or pack based?

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I must admit I had a hard time deciding whether to take the rest of your post seriously. I can't tell if these words are a response of pride or humility. 

Barry

Something I teach my scout son - especially as it pertains to the internet (and something for which I personally struggle - which is why I know the term):

MRI: most respectful interpretation.

https://www.fs.blog/2017/01/most-respectful-interpretation/

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Then a girl could sue stating discrimination due to gender.

I don’t see this as common as any CO adding a linked girls Troop should have plans to ensure no discrimination. That said this is the concern I have heard about the separate but equal plan.  Given the funding and CO are typically not government organizations I’m not sure this is really a risk.

Not an attorney (but I stay at a Super 8 this weekend!), but I see no grounds to sue based on discrimination. The CO is not required to treat the troops equally, much less even charter a girls troop. In order to have standing in a case of discrimination, you must have a right to exist and participate. The CO is under no obligation to provide such.

Now that being stated, the Council might find itself in some potential legal jeopardy if it does not provide troops for girls. I think others have stated that Councils have chartered Venturing troops before and I would not be surprised if some council charter girl troops so that an opportunity exists even where no geographically local CO steps up to charter.

4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

National Annual Meeting

http://nam.scouting.org/Activities/Events/Sessions.aspx

Strategic Initiatives 

Thursday, 10:45 a.m. – 12:00 p.m.

After the Business Meeting, join us for a discussion of Strategic Initiatives that will help chart the course for the movement’s future.  Discussions will include an update of the Game Plan, Youth Protection efforts, and information on the progress of Family Scouting. There will also be time for questions and answers.

 

 

Any chance this will be live streamed?

I know the World Jambo is not the same as the Nat Jambo but for those that were there last year, would you recommend people with day passes and limited days go to the Jambo at the beginning or the end?

19 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

We mention the "Linked Troops" option and they are shocked and basically say it is discrimination (the words were "Second Class Scout Troop") and inferring complaints will be made.

As a supporter of BSA4G, I hope you stand as firm against those complaints as you would against anyone else that tries to threaten you over your membership policies. I will continue to defend your right to be boy-only if you wish. Those parents are free to start their own CO/Troop if they feel so strongly. I know I might face the same decision and hurdles for my daughter but I would never seek to force her onto her brothers CO if they don't want her. I don't imagine that would be a good scouting experience for either party.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes you stated that girls will not be in boys' troops. And I will state again with that those units that are  "Linked Troops" will be coed troops in reality.

OK, but do you acknowledge that not all COs will charter a girls troop? It is entirely possible that Will's CO will decide to not pursue a girls troop and if they make that decision, then there will be no linked troop.

Found this (from 2017) - adds a bit more back story (as you likely already know):

https://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2017/5/15/when-the-latter-day-saints-dump-the-boy-scouts-might-there-be-a-back-story-here

Snip:

Quote

 

Actually, it isn't a big surprise. I'm a volunteer BSA Commissioner and the commissioner for the LDS units in our districts let us know LDA was considering this a number of years ago, long before the change in BSA Membership standards 3 years ago.

The primary reason for the LDS change FOR OLDER BOYS ONLY is that LDS has long wanted a teen program they can use worldwide, and obviously the BSA Venturer program is stateside only. And BSA's Venturer program is Co-ed and actually now has about as many girls in it as guys.

The Varsity program mentioned is used by virtually no BSA Chartered organizations except LDS, and was created for them. So it will probably be dropped by BSA.

If this really was about the change in BSA membership standards, don't you think LDS would have also cancelled their participation in the BSA Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs as well?

...

The Church is very interested in keeping its programs uniform and consistent across the entire Church. The problem is scouting is only used in the Church in the US and Canada. More than half of the members of the Church live outside of the US and Canada, which means the majority of the youth in the Church do not participate in Scouting at all. This move brings the young men's organizations in the US and Canada in line with those in the rest of the world. This change has been talked about since I was in Scouting in the 1990's.

 

I'd bet that BSA saw the writing on the wall as it pertains to LDS which might be one of the reasons that this role out of inclusion of girls was so sloppy.

This leads me to wonder if this "joint statement" and the fact that LDS has been working on this "for years" might have something to do with the new membership changes. Perhaps BSA knew this was coming and including girls was an attempt to offset this upcoming and eventual loss. Speculation, but certainly this change didn't happen overnight or in a vacuum.

And hey, no need to shout it. 😏

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

With all due respect, 2 words: "LINKED TROOPS" (emphasis)  let's face it, if 2 troops share a CO, Share a committee, share ASMs, share meeting nights and location, share activities, and share cam,pouts, is it really 2 separate troops? No it isn't, it is one coed troop, despite what the paperwork says.

.

COs are not required to offer a girls troop. Many here have already stated that their CO will be boys only. So I will state again, there will be no girls in any boy troop and many, I would even say most COs will be boys only.

2 hours ago, Will1234 said:

OH come on this needs to stop as an active boy scout I think girls in boyscouts will ruin the experience.

Welcome Will. As it stands right now*, you will not have a single girl in your Troop, much less in your patrol. What is it about girls in a different troop that you think will ruin your experience?

You shouldn't have to deal with girls in Scouts.

*I assume no change is likely or even possible on this aspect until at least 2020 or later.

What is the current official word on the requirement for there to be a female DL/ADL present? I have an overnighter coming up and while the pack has women that are YPT, they have different roles within the pack - and you can't have two different leadership positions as an adult leader so we can't simply ask one of our other female leaders to step in and be an ADL for the camp out.