Hawkwin

Thanks, I realize I as sloppy in my title. I am looking for a Webelos ceremony, not really an AOL ceremony.

4 hours ago, FireStone said:

We don't care, and I doubt many girls will either. But for sure there will be some extremely "motivated" parents out there gunning for their daughter to be the first ever Eagle Scout. 

 

I don't think there will a single first but many many firsts all on the same day - such is the nature of Eagle BORs.

1 minute ago, jamskinner said:

You can look at it through a modern day lens and ignore the situation at the time. 

You infer something not implied.

I hold no malice toward what our leaders did 200+ years ago. That was the time in which they lived. I also hold no malice to how BSA was created or the fact that even though girls showed up from the start with a desire to join, they were told to form their own organization. Again, that was the time in which they lived and I have no reason to judge them based on such.

But, it is now 100+ years later. Our country evolved and now BSA is evolving. 

5 minutes ago, jamskinner said:

 

"our country was also once founded on the idea that only white males mattered"

This is pure hogwash. ...

If you had said male landowners then you might have a leg to stand on. 

 

???

So you would have been OK if I stated this country was founded on the idea that only [white] male (landowners) mattered? You'd grant my position a leg to stand on if I simply had not stated white and had included landowners? You have no major complaint with "male?"

And in a thread that is discussing the exclusion of women?

Anyone else see that elephant run through here?

Heh, funny thing is, I find the graphic depiction of the scout (dumb and obese) to be more disturbing and offensive than the content.

1 minute ago, Saltface said:

 

I wouldn't be too sure.

Well, I did state it was a theory.

It seems like it would be weird if BP had served on active duty in the British military with women fighting beside him to then make it the rest of his life mission to create a youth organization that excluded them.

1 minute ago, jamskinner said:

 Grow tired of misinformation such as the above.  Quit stating opinion as fact 

What misinformation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States

The United States Constitution did not originally define who was eligible to vote, allowing each state to determine who was eligible. In the early history of the U.S., most states allowed only white male adult property owners to vote.

-------------

If you can't vote, then you don't really matter.

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Not disputing that the activities can be done by anyone of any gender.

That being said, the first sections of the older SM guides are clearly about boys, male youths.  The intent is to focus on the boys, and the program is interpreted and (at the time) designed for boys.  The discussion is about boys.

 

*psst* Someone might point out that our country was also once founded on the idea that only white males mattered too but then we evolved. Might want to make sure the reason you are relying on a 100 year old gender-based exclusion is sound and is still valid.

With women now being active in all military units, my theory is that if BP were alive today and starting Scouts in 2018, he would do it much more like it will be in 2019 than what it was like in 1910.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/04/do-you-wear-your-neckerchief-over-or-under-the-collar/

This board has helped my change my thinking on the necker (was previously opposed to it due to the added cost and the fact that scouts always seemed to lose their slides).

I also never would have imagined that there are so many variations in how it could be worn.

Hawkwin

Necker convert

Look for a recommendation for a quick (say 5 minute or less) ceremony for Webelos that will be earning their Webelos rank. The smaller number of miscellaneous items needed the better.

40 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

You're kidding, right?  That was an April Fool's joke.

Meh, BSA has approved equally "dangerous" patches.

http://tradingpost.classb.com/official-licensed-knight-with-sword-patrol-patch/

http://tradingpost.classb.com/official-licensed-knight-on-horse-patrol-patch/

20 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Is that a Valkyrie? It looks good. 

Yes. Webelos daughter picked out the artwork for it and gave final approval.

New Patrol patch design is a go!

10 hours ago, jamskinner said:

i believe they are more comfortable with their own gender. Is this always the case?  No. I do believe it is the case the majority of the time.  I must admit though that I don’t have any research data on the subject though. I will try to see if any is available and if so supports or contradicts my view. 

Just my opinion, but my perception is that we all have different versions of our authentic self that we share with different people. My clients get a different authentic me than my wife does, my kids get a different self, my male friends get a different self, and my female friends get a different self.

When I was in high school, my three closest friends my senior year were all girls. It was easier to share my authentic self (a guy from a broken home who changed states and schools often - changed high school four times in two different states). I had male friends but I always felt that we had to convey some sense of bravado around each other that was fake or otherwise not authentic. I could be vulnerable around my female friends without being judged or ridiculed.

There probably is a comfort factor out there based on similarities, but I have to wonder if that comfort factor is based on legit reasons. Mixed genders might cause someone to feel a lack of comfort the same way mixed skin color groups could make someone uncomfortable. Is that lack of comfort based on something real or is it perception based on a lack of knowledge and experience with the "other?" I admit I don't know but my assumption is the later. I do know that male Rangers have said as much after women graduated from Ranger School. I've also heard the same from members of my old Airborne Infantry unit that was all male but now welcomes women.

Regardless of how coed Scouts BSA becomes, it is my hope that an organization that teaches both genders about ethics, character, and a love of the outdoors results in significant change for future generations. Having women grow up with that same pride and experience can only be a good thing for our future adult men too.

11 hours ago, Treflienne said:

But not all of them.  Especially not all of the old-timers.   Some of the vocal groups have been "GSUSA are you listening?",  "The Outdoor Journey Project", . . .

 

 

Fascinating read, thanks for sharing.

18 minutes ago, jamskinner said:

If that’s the case then why do you want to buy pizzas at Burger King?  

I don't think you are applying the correct analogy. This is more like a group of people begging and pleading to open their own franchise of Pizza Hut and finally being told that they can do so. You are not (insert disclaimer about "currently") being required to share your own franchise with these new owners. You are not being required to (currently) even service the same customers.

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

The pros in my council keep saying we can accept girls into Cub Scouts in September.  The release says:

 

I guess that they were just being a bit sloppy in the month that they stated. Per the FAQ, a specific start date has not been determined but one may assume that it would be when packs do their normal recruitment. Would not make any sense to make girls wait a month (as they would with an September start date for our packs that recruit in August).

1 hour ago, Saltface said:

But there's no way to stop the casual brand dilution when John Q. Public calls them girl scouts.

There is no way to stop John Q Public from saying anything they want. If you lived in the South like I did, everything is a "coke." When you order a drink at a restaurant if you tell someone you want a "coke", they are likely to ask you what type, "Sprite, coke, diet, Dr, Pepper, sweet tea, etc.

1 hour ago, Gwaihir said:

I agree that the court of public opinion, regardless of what things are supposed to be called, is going to call girl Scouts "Girl Scouts" because they are girls who are scouts. 

From what has been recently posted here, GSUSA is unlikely to allow the media to characterize them as such due to copyright infringements. Probably will not take more than a handful of "Cease and Desist" requests from GSUSA for the "Standards and Practices" office of most media outlets to make sure their journalists get it correct going forward.

Just now, Jameson76 said:

The day isn't over....

A Scout is Cheerful.

So I ask again, what is it they wish to resist? No one is (currently) forcing them to accept girls into the troop. What is it that they feel the need to resist? It can't be this name change as it was just announced today and I doubt they all got together to tell you they want to resist a being called a "Scout."

If they are forced to accept girls in their troop, then I will be an ally in your resistance but that is not the current state of BSA.

12 minutes ago, TMSM said:

 I am going to let them resist.

Resist what? A name change? It was announced that girls were joining BSA months ago. Why does a name change now engender such a reaction?

You sure you are not encouraging them to resist instead of simply letting them?

2 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

 'Separate but Equal' policy that will crumble shortly at the 1st legal challenge because of the bad publicity.

On what basis? BSA can now legally completely exclude girls. We are both legally separate and legally unequal. Allowing girls to join and have their own program doesn't open us to any more liability on that issue than we have today (which is none). If girls have their own program and can be in OA (or a female version of such) as well as obtain Eagle, then what do you think is not equal about that? I don't see any court trying to tell BSA that they "have to be completely coed" and I also don't see BSA simply rolling over on their back at the first sign that someone wants otherwise. BSA has too many religious COs that simply would not be onboard with such forced inclusion.

Getting a lot of these today - when I click "Unread Content" and in other areas.