Eagle1993

One of my fears is that CAC's $20/month fee was the foot in the door. Many people who are younger seem to gravitate to the subscription model. This car will only cost you $400/month. This home will only cost you $2500/month. If you don't look at the total cost of something, the monthly fees don't seem that bad (until you add them all up). BSA only costs $20/month in CAC ... $20/month sounds perfectly reasonable until you multiple that by 12 and realize a few years ago the equivalent was only $30/year. Once you establish $20/month then a change to $22/month much easier than trying to make a $24/year annual increase. Perhaps this is where we are headed ... if we are, I'll probably not be around for the ride.

Only name I see on the 2020 990 form is JAMES PARNELL who was paid $104K. Honestly not too bad compared to most councils I have seen.

Welp .... CAC has now paused the new fee schedule. Based on feedback from parents & volunteers, Crossroads of America council has decided to pause the new fee structure. My daughter's annual Girl Scout fee is $25. As mentioned, 4H and other similar organizations have pretty low annual fees. BSA thinking $300+ is reasonable is completely wrong. Members within CAC are still upset. The entire council volunteer corp & paid leadership approved the fee. Hopefully a warning to other councils think about a massive fee increase.

Thanks for the updates! I do wonder what would happen if Purdue Pharma appeal kills the releases. I know it is another circuit, but there is a ton of attention and change with respect to non debtor releases. If an appeal court rejects them (Purdue had more support in terms of votes than BSA) then I wonder if either the District Court or 3rd Circuit appeals puts the breaks on the BSA plan. I would expect plan supporters are probably hoping that either a ruling comes out backing Purdue Pharma OR the ruling is delayed until BSA has district approval and starts implementing their plan.

Their top paid employees total comp: SE = $326K Deputy SE = $331K Dir. Major Gifts = $191K Dir. Field Ser = $182K

Even parents of upper class ... $340 a year is a lot when you add in the various other costs including summer camp, etc. Asking for $50/year ... ok, they will sign up little Jimmy/Sally even if they are not super active. $340 ... all you are left with are the scouts where scouting is their ONLY activity. That will drop scouts to a small fraction of who is currently registered.

Petition · Prevent the Decimation of Membership of Local BSA unit in Crossroads of America · Change.org

Look at this cost structure. $340 per year in Crossroads of America. Seems a bit steep..

I'm not sure how other Troops handle this but we make it clear that nothing is official until we hear from National. We do not have anyone wear the patch until we have the kit from National. Now, in all my years, I haven't had a case where National rejected the Eagle app but it can happen.

We had an ASM who volunteered for years. He led one of the groups at Jambo and his out of pocket was over $5K per jambo. That included air travel & hotels in Dallas to prepare. At some point, they ask far too much from volunteers.

Reports from some on Facebook indicate they are almost at 14,500 and have set a limit of 15,000 scouts due to staffing limits.

Rumor is National Jamboree almost hit their limit 15,000 scouts.

I was told after bankruptcy is closed out. I wouldn't worry about planning for these yet. I heard of these second hand and the final implementation may be different. That said, change is coming. Costs, tools, program, leadership, councils, COs, camps, etc. could all be impacted. BSA, while having a decent recruiting year, considers themselves at war (per a slide displayed in bankruptcy). The insurance company lawyer asked about the war reference and BSA rep didn't really answer. I think BSA sees themselves at war with survival. They will not survive if changes are not made. Their debt burden and costs are simply too high. Another slide alluded to an opinion that the changes can not be democratic. So, councils will be forced to merge, programs will change. If I hear of rumors I'll post them here. Not to cause disruption but to get feedback from experienced scouters. Perhaps some in National could see the comments as an early indication of acceptance or at least areas of concern. I'm not taking any action at my unit level other than preparing my Committee that we may need to be flexible over the next couple of years. Not much else to do until we hear details.

I would be careful with the topics of requirement 6. In particular, I would avoid those discussions with other scouts present. Some families may not want their dirty laundry shared with the Troop. family_life.pdf (scouting.org)

After a few billion dollar mistakes it starts adding up to a lot of money.

Low chance ... even after they burn through their own cash, National BSA can definitely pull money from councils. Ch7 is a disaster.

To be clear, they really need to be cash flow positive. Those are expensive facilities that require significant funds to maintain plus are under a mountain of debt. If you take into account the full balance sheet including debt and depreciation I bet the outcome is closer to 0 to negative... but short term positive on the cash side. This is just a guess.

During bankruptcy, BSA was clear that Jamborees and HA bases are profitable. Cash flow is typically positive early from what I see. They take in high fees up front and expenses drain that down later.

Big week in the bankruptcy case. Feb 9th and 10th will be the appeals hearing. As mentioned, this will not be over zoom so we will have to wait to hear reporters take (unless any forum members attend).

AOL, Scout & Tenderfoot all have the same knot requirements. To me, it makes more sense to have a new scout who earned AOL work immediately on the Tenderfoot version than simply repeating it for Scout rank and then again for Tenderfoot. They added Scout rank (requirements) in 2016. I think the rank makes sense for someone brand new to scouting. Awarding an AOL scout with Scout rank is an indication they likely already know the very basics of being a scout. Similar to the Military having Eagle scouts start at E-3.

I wouldn't mind requiring SMC at the transition, but don't make them jump through the same hoops. There is not a single scout requirement that expands beyond what they did as AOL (or could have done). Have them start immediately focusing on Tenderfoot vs redoing AOL. They can see the benefits of having another scout sign off on requirements while working on Tenderfoot. I personally see Scout as a momentum killer and a relatively boring introduction into Scouts BSA for someone who earned AOL.

It will be interesting to see what this change really means. I like your idea ... if 4th graders get a taste of Scouts BSA by having to earn scouting adventure and then AOL is really heavily focused on transitioning into Scouts BSA. If Webelos is just 1 more year of pure Cub Scouts and AOL is the 1st time anyone starts really preparing for transition to Scouts BSA ... the truth is that AOL transfer in Feb - May ... so that would mean only 6-8 months. Now, to be fair, I see many packs not spend much time on transition to Scouts BSA until late in 5th grade. So, on the ground, pushing AOL scouts earlier (in September) may actually give them more time to transition vs what many packs/Troops see today.

So ... I'm not aware of all of the changes. Some that may be coming ... Every rank will switch to 6 required adventures and 2 electives. It is not clear if this is the correct #s; however, what was made clear is every rank will have the identical # of required & elective adventures. Bobcat is no longer a rank, it will be an adventure that must be earned for every rank Webelos & AOL will be completely separate. Webelos will go to 1 year. AOL will be full focused on bridging to scouts BSA and much more focus will be on linking AOL scouts to a Scouts BSA Troop. If a scout earns AOL, when they cross over to Scouts BSA, they automatically earn Scout rank. I understand there are/could be other changes coming, but I have not heard of any changes to how the Pack functions or Lions/Tigers The 1st change listed in meh to me. I don't see much of an impact. The 2nd change ... not a bad idea to me. Scouts should go through the bobcat requirements frequently. Perhaps the uniform changes where Lions, Tigers, Wolves and Bears each have their own square. The 3rd change ... if implemented well could be a win. It should be operating this way already, but I expect it could help some Packs/Dens realize the importance of the this transition vs having it be 1 adventure. The 4th change ... I'm a big fan of this one. Earn AOL you should have done everything required for Scout Rank anyway and it gets them moving in Scouts BSA rank advancement. Thoughts on these possible changes (still just a rumor). Personally ... I don't think it is enough; however, I would like to learn more about the AOL change which could have a fairly significant impact.

I went back and hid the comment along with the back and forth as it distracted from the original discussion.

BSA financials released for end of Dec. Summary below of BSA's net unrestricted liquidity (combination of cash on hand + unrestricted investments). Dec/January is typically the peak and then liquidity drop as insurance premium is paid and income drops. Bankruptcy costs have been dropping but I expect that to pick up ... plus they will need to make some payments to the trust at some point. We will probably see 30 - 40M drop in their liquidity by August .. so down to $50-60M. Prior to bankruptcy they were at $240M.