Eagle1993

“has had an unforeseen and pronounced negative effect on the Debtors’ operations, including an 81% membership recruitment decline in 2020 attributable to school closures and social distancing measures.”

We are avoiding any communication to our parents yet, other than telling scouts this will be the last year to go to CFL for summer camp.

I think I may know more by late April.  If that hearing goes south and it looks dire, I'll probably raise the alarm with my life scouts. More like a ... hey, just in case ... you probably want to finish off your 6 Eagle Required partial merit badges you have been sitting on and go ahead and get that project we have been discussing approved.  

45 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

In my experience, which is vastly different than this context, it's mind boggling. The last time I was involved in a decent sized negotiation, which was on a class action case 2+ years ago, this is how it worked when the frustration stage hit:

1) We had flung pleadings, negotiated and made some progress, but not enough;

2) We were mandated to go to settlement conference with the judge's appointed mediator, committing up to two days;

3) Our side sat in the main courtroom and the other in a separate one;

4) We went back and forth all day, with the mediator relaying offer/counter offer and leaning on each party as she went;

5) No lunch, no coffee allowed, few bathroom breaks; and

6) We settled after about nine hours. No one was "happy," but everyone could live with the deal.

Admittedly, this has a lot more parties a lot more moving parts and a whole glob of attorneys. Again, I am biased, but I feel like the BSA, LCs, insurers and (now) COs have been the ones laying back waiting for who knows what. They seem to be the dragging anchors. 

My father-in-law went through mediation on a real estate sale.  Yes, much, much smaller .. but still.

Similar experience.  After mediation closed, the mediator basically told the other side ... you will lose if this goes to trail.  They closed on an agreement quickly after that.  Mediators can tell either side when they are over the rails.

I think if BSA & TCC walk out of the room with a deal, the councils & claimants will fall into line.   Councils will be told that if the deal falls through, National will liquidate and essentially councils funds will all go to legal fees.  They won't have a choice.  TCC will recommend approval.  Even if 55% approval, the judge can simply say she approves the deal.  She doesn't need 66% approval from the claimants.  If she sees TCC on board AND the majority of claimants and only 1 or two lawyers are crowing ... I expect she approves.

Get the TCC & BSA in a room.  Perhaps it is a week with a strong mediator.  Work it out.  Burning $10M in cash a month doesn't help anyone.

Key will be October/November numbers.  Can Cub Scouting rebound post Covid?  I think it will. 

8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

BSA just released updated tool guidelines...finally, some sensible changes...

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf?utm_source=scoutingwire&utm_campaign=swvolunteer3172021&utm_medium=email&utm_content=

They lowered the age limit for many power tools.  I’ll give a thumbs up as I see this as a move in the right direction!  

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

How so?

My one frustration is that the judge doesn’t seem to make many rulings.  For example on discovery, she seemed to like the idea but deferred to District Court and that process. When will she officially decide on the HA based or councils as separate entities.  Outside of a stern message, what legal pressure is on the groups to reach a settlement?  What can she do to force a tight timeline and is she doing it?

1 hour ago, KublaiKen said:

So would the territories replace regions/areas (realizing this is just a proposal)?

Yes.  Regions and areas would be replaced.  

https://www.wsj.com/articles/local-boy-scouts-councils-agree-to-cooperate-on-abuse-victims-probe-11616017053

"Under a pact approved Wednesday in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Del., lawsuits can be filed against the local councils that hold the bulk of the Boy Scouts wealth, but the litigation won’t progress until mid-July. The trade off is that survivors’ lawyers will receive detailed roster data needed to identify local councils and other organizations that chartered individual troops where the sexual abuse took place."

6 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

clip board who looked like a "suit,"

Any surveyor stakes?

Not sure if this has been sent out previously.  Looks like just a proposal.

2125723974_BSAChurchillPlan-ProposedNewTerritoryStructureandCouncilStandardspresentation10.6.20.pdf

9 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

As you have articulated multiple times, how does he propose to do that if BSA is unwilling? He seems to be speaking to some power in the judge's hand, which I understood isn't there. Just persist in refusing to approve revised Plans? 

I would also add, that while technically they need 66% ... if the TCC supports the deal and 52% of the claimants, I could see the judge accepting the deal.  From the TCC townhall, they talked that no judge approve a deal over the objections of the sex abuse survivors.  They didn't necessarily the 66% approval.  

I bet when the TCC approves, they will get close to the 66% and the Judge will approve.  No deal will be done until the TCC approves, so just focus on that for now.

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have no idea what the property will sell for

I will say, from my experience, Wisconsin scout property typically sells to logging companies.  They'll go through and remove most of the trees then possibly lease the land for farming.  Its pretty far from populations and the lake is very small ... so not a ton of value of water frontage in this case.

8 minutes ago, elitts said:

For a single property or even a few?

Single.

CFL is essentially the property pictured below.  In Wisconsin, you cannot technically own lakes, but they own the property around the entire lake.  The claim is that it is the 2nd cleanest lake in Wisconsin.  I have no idea what the property will sell for ... my guess its outside my price range.

10 minutes ago, elitts said:

Of course, if the LCs were being really creative, they would look into ways to trim out some of the really valuable parts of their camps to generate funds, while leaving themselves enough land to have a functional camp. 

To me, this makes a ton of sense.  I love private lake camps ... but if the balance is no camp or sharing a lake, I'd go for a shared lake.  Most of the time, scouts do not need the entire shoreline.  We need a waterfront to swim & and boat launch area.  I hope some councils consider this option as it could net a large portion of the camps value while still maintaining a local summer camp.

9 minutes ago, elitts said:

Except you are basically never going to get FAIR MARKET VALUE for most of the properties that get sold for this.  These are all specialty properties that would normally need upwards of 12-24 months (or more) of marketing time to find a buyer; but you can be sure the liquidation time-frame will be much shorter.  What you will get for these properties is usually going to be the FIRE SALE price. 

In the CFL sale, my understanding is that they will list it at FMV.  If it doesn't sell, they will transfer ownership to the trust at FMV.  The trust can then sell the property at FMV in the future.

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Not going to pat myself on the back, but she even made note of individual letters she received about the importance of continuing Scouting for future generations, including from survivor claimants.

Its great to hear ... but at $10M/month, it feels like we will lose 3-5 local camps each month this trial goes on.  Hopefully the BSA & TCC lawyers finally sit in a room and don't leave until there is a settlement.  No food, no water, just sit.  Heck .. perhaps we can put them up at a camp site in one of our camps.  They have to make their own fires, cook for themselves and not leave the area until there is a deal. 

11 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Estimation of Claims. Discussion was toward the latter moving to District Court, but sounded like it's very backed up.

This will be interesting if it moves forward.  Has she discussed restricted assets (JP Morgan/Summit)?

3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Then, I honestly don't know what happens in bankruptcy when the debtor runs out of $$. I would guess the lawyers would then have a lien on any claims coming out of the bankruptcy.

The law firm needs cash flow as well., I don't see them working for credit.  So ... perhaps JP Morgan can loan the BSA MORE money that will then be spent on lawyers.  Or National can special assess councils (each council needs to provide $1M or they lose their charter).  Or they sell properties to fund legal expenses.  Even at $10M per month, I think the BSA can find cash to support this for a long time (unless they decide a better strategy is to liquidate National).

Anybody watching the zoom of the Chapter 11 hearing today?  Any punches thrown? Just heard that there was an exchange that $100M has been spent on lawyers to date and $150M will be spent by August.  Judge called it "staggering".

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I tried. Went crosseyed just shy of going blind. Good golly.

To give you an idea what we are talking about ....

7 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

For what it's worth, it is not a very substantive piece. Basically, insurance will be critical, there are an enormous number of policies with various limits and application, and it's really, really complicated so stay tuned. Nothing you didn't already know.

If you look at the BSA disclosure update you get an idea of how complex this is.  There are insurance policies for every council listed by date over decades.  Take council xyz, they list the insurance policy year by year (some years they changed mid year).  Each of these policies may have caps on total payouts.  Combine this with the National insurance policies and I wonder how this will ever be settled.

Camp Freeland Leslie

A patrol cooking camp.  No pool. No ATVs.  Just a private lake in the middle of Wisconsin.  Great staff and a fun program.  Will be missed. 

I figure we can have a separate thread on a list of bankruptcy losses. This is not speculation of what could happen, but did happen/is happening.    

17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Just to put the fear of whomever into people that are not taking this seriously and reading/lurking this forum:

1) Three Fires Council in its last annual report indicated $3.3 million in support and revenue and $3.5 million in expenditures.

2) There were 126 abuse claims within Three Fires Council + 2 more that were in multiple councils including Three Fires.

3) Wisconsin's statute of limitations on abuse claims wasn't lifted or changed since 2007! Victims have until they day they reach 35 to file a claim.

What this means is LCs are starting to see the writing on the wall. Camp sell offs are going to be happening at a rapid clip.

And not only that, read this

As of 2018 that was around $2.8 million dollars (Part X, Line 27 "Unrestricted net assets").

So what they are saying is that $2.8 million PLUS the sale of their camp is what is going to be required for the settlement fund. Assume they get $1 for the camp, that means payment for the 126 claims ($2,800,000/126) = $22,222.

If you are with a local council, if you are a local scouter, if you are ANYONE who cares about scouting and reads this: be prepared to lose a LOT of your LC.

 

CFL is a patrol cooking camp.  It turns a profit.  Its well run with great volunteers.  They ran camp during Covid and did it well.  I love that camp and we will be there this summer ...

While Three Fires is not my council, they are well run and have positive balance sheets.

This is what is happening with a settlement that will be rejected.  

Our only hope is that some of today's wealthy individuals buys the camps and keeps them as scout camps.  I can barely type .... I don't know how I am going to tell our scouts.  We already lost our long term in council camp a couple of years ago ... now this.  

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Three Fires Council to close Camp Freeland Leslie; cites need to pay into Settlement Fund.

Remember: we were all told National would pay for it all. No LCs would be impacted. All donated funds would stay local.

Dear Friend of Camp Freeland Leslie,

 

The Boy Scouts of America’s bankruptcy filing and the necessity of a significant local council contribution to a victim’s trust has led the Three Fires Council Board of Directors to make the difficult decision to close Camp Freeland Leslie in Oxford, Wisconsin after the conclusion of the 2021 summer camp season. 

 

Three Fires Council has limited resources and with the need to make a significant contribution to a trust settlement, the Council is left with no other options than to part with CFL. A local real estate firm, which specializes in property sales of this nature, will be engaged to identify and secure a suitable buyer. If a buyer cannot be secured by the time our contribution is required, it is our intent to transfer the title of the property to the Trust. Additionally, the Council will need to contribute a significant amount, if not all, of its unrestricted reserve to this fund. This reserve has been built up over generations from investment income and will not include local Friends of Scouting gifts or permanently restricted endowment gifts from local donors. 

 

This is an emotionally challenging time. The Three Fires Council Board and the BSA have two priorities in this matter:

 

1.  Justly compensate victims of past abuse.

2.  Ensure our ability to continue the mission of the BSA in our local communities. 

 

Both of these objectives require this drastic action. 

 

Like you, a significant number of our executive board members and staff have a personal connection to Camp Freeland Leslie, as Scouts, staffers and more. None of the executive board members took this decision lightly. We must, however, put emotions aside and do what is best for the future of Scouting in Three Fires Council and for our Scouts. 

 

We anticipate multiple special events before the end of this summer’s CFL camp season that will allow all Scouts, alumni and community members to properly celebrate their memories at camp. Camp Freeland Leslie has been an important and impactful piece in the history of the council and its Scouts. We want to ensure that it is properly remembered and honored. 

 

We will hold virtual town hall meetings to answer questions and hear your feedback on this issue. These town halls will be held on Monday, March 22 and Wednesday, March 24 both at 6:30pm on Zoom. To RSVP, please use ThreeFiresCouncil.Org/CFL-Transition. We hope that you will join us for these evenings so that we may help everyone best understand the impacts of this decision. 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Daniel Zedan                           Anna Tuohy                                                                             Clint Scharff                             

Council President                    Council Commissioner                   Scout Executive

 

 

My local camp!   I’m sick