Eagle1993

@blw2   I’m a member of several Reddit groups and keeping on point is most critical (at least for me) on non political threads.  For example, if you start a thread on ideal process to change brake pads on a 1997 Porsche 911 Turbo and someone starts discussing why you can run 13,000 miles between oil changes on a 2015 VW Passat it is not helpful.  First, those who are interested in VW Passat’s oil change interval will almost never find that interesting discussion buried in the original topic and second those interested in brake pads on a 911 Turbo now have to read through ramblings on VW.  

I would agrue the same applies for many threads here.  If someone starts a thread for SPL on smaller Troops it would be best  to keep it focused for both short term and long term (those that search threads in future). I think our mods do a pretty good job of balancing flow of conversation and keeping on topic   

Thread hijacking is not good internet decorum.  IT IS SIMILAR TO NOT TYPING IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME.  It is a consistent and common rule across nearly all forums.  I know I violate it from time to time and have no problem when called out.  It is simple enough to create a new topic.  

The tent vs other (bunk house, sub, cave) has been discussed by our leadership regarding YPT.  In many cases (outside tent) you have no choice but to have youth and adults sleep in the same area.  However, our focus was no one on one, female leaders separate as much as possible, two deep leadership when near youth, arrange sleeping arrangements as close to YPT tent policy as possible.

The violation is this case is the two deep leadership and the fact the Troop has found a way to keep leaders and scouts separate.  

I can completely see a leader, at 1am, groggy thinking to hell with this and pulling his bed into another room.  It doesn’t make him evil or bad but it does still seem to be a violation.  If he did it, he should even report it himself.  Let the DE investigate. Inform the parents of the findings (probably nothing) and move on.  

All of this is to protect both youth and leaders.  What happens if in 6 months one of those youth accuse him of jumping in his bed?  That is why he should have not done this in the first place and it should be reported and investigated.  

There is always a cost for training for any organization.  The question is who should pay. Natonal, council, unit or individual.  If training is a priority I would expect the expense to be covered by someone other than the volunteer.  Clearly training is not a priority for nationals or council so it is coming down to the unit or volunteer.  How many non profits charge you to volunteer and to be trained?   BSA is the only one I have been part of who charges a fee. 

The training charges are minimal in our council and our Pack covers them for any volunteer willing to take the time to be trained.  We cover the expense as part of our dues and fundraising budget as we see this as a priority.

My council only charges minimal fees for training, to cover basic costs.  $5 for position specific... and you get the Trained patch.  $12 for BALOO to cover some handouts and lunch.   I don’t hear complaints about cost only content and time (frequency and length).  

There are also A LOT of chatter at my council that Venturing will change as well.  As I was told, it was already seen as a program in decline (lowest number of members and highest attrition rate over last few years).   So, until announced officially, I am not sure that Venturing will remain unchanged.

I agree with @Eagle94-A1. Our council has also discussed paper dens and Troops.  It will happen.  There are already Troops with girls now with blue cards tracking MB progress.  They will find a way to comply on paper but create a coed Troop (theirs leaders, scouts and parents want it).  

As part of the Pack early adopter program my DE specifically told me that they will be strict with separate dens and meetings now (no paper dens); however, that will probably change when full roll out occurs. They won’t be able to police everyone.

So... you are correct regarding the video.  What really will happen remains to be seen. 

I’ve had a couple of discussions with my DE but to mention of this webinar yet.  I know there is a multi page FAQ that he was referencing. That is how I know we need new leaders for the Girl den(s) and there is no minimum number of girls per grade.  

@lupacexi

First welcome to scouter.  Your post is off topic so you may want to start a new topic in our U23 ASEAN FC section.  Also, Cho was offsides at 23’ so it should have been a draw.

So, please return to the topic at hand... Scouting options in the Sioux Falls area.

I just spent the last hour looking at the BSA reviews in Glassdoor. While you have to be careful believing everything there are many DEs who have submitted reviews over the last year.  You can probably guess the overall tone of the feedback...

Great feeling of helping and working with many volunteers and scouts. 

Pathetic pay $35-$40k per year and horrible work/life balance working 60-70 hours a week, most weekends and weekday nights. 

They also have issues regarding council and national leadership, outdated business model, wasteful spending and risky income sources.  A couple had comments that BSA is headed toward collapse (I don’t agree and perhaps that is just their emotional response).

Overall it confirms some of my fears.  I look at my DE and office staff (the front line) and have been (for the most part) impressed. My DE helps me out at all hours, travels a ton and is always there with advice.  I honestly don’t know what benefit we get from council and upper level paid leadership.  I certainly hope the organization relooks at where they allocate capital and ensure the most critical resources are given The highest priority.  From what I have seen to date I’m not sure that is the case. 

I believe the report should be available to the public.  I’m not sure if the below incident was discussed but it was another case of three boys (one killed two injured) in a sailboat that came into contact with overhead lines.  

http://www.ecmweb.com/content/dont-get-zapped-cable-clearance-over-water

Without making it public, how do regulatory agencies and private companies not involved with the incident ensure they have the proper processes in place to prevent this from occurring in other locations?  The goal should be to learn from these incidents to help prevent future harm.  

NPR had a good TED radio hour regarding transparency.  I think the medical device/nurse issue was a great example of why transparency is important (not only to prevent future incidents but also honoring the injured and deceased).

https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/567499335/transparency

Or just go on eBay and buy a car.  Have your au pair attend the Pack meeting with your son and fire her if he loses.  I’m not sure why everyone is making this so complicated. 

I’m not a fan of 3D printed car idea at this point... perhaps in the future when they are cheaper and more widely available.  For now, keep it simple and have the kids build as much of the car as they can based on their ability.  

Ever since we found out (after the race ceremony) that our winning scouts car was purchased for nearly $100 on eBay I’ve soured on the event.  Overall it is fun for parents and kids but there are still Too many parents overly involved with their kids race results.  Our biggest trophy is for Sportsmanship ship as well, but that hasn’t stopped some of the arguments (my favorite was one with a parent regarding why they ... i mean their kid.. placed 8th instead of 7th).  My stance.... it doesn’t matter.... they didn’t like that response.

I have no doubt most positions will be filled.  I also agree that the BSA may luck into some great people willing to work hard and stay on board with a low salary.

My concern is that generally you will not see consistent strong long term employees if you cut pay and benefits.  My wife’s food pantry is prime example.  They found a guy.  He isn’t innovative, sometimes misses deadlines, doesn’t fundraise well, etc.  However he shows up, the pantry functions and isn’t a drunk (all of which have been issues in the past).  They really want a better leader but cannot find one willing to work for just above minimum wage.   

Again, I know there are gems out there that would be great and would work for free, but long term this is not a great situation to ensure you can attract the top talent.

https://town-village.com/2018/01/03/st-girl-recognized-as-boy-scout-after-11-years-of-scouting/

While Sydney told Town & Village this week she would like to see the BSA do away with the holdup on accepting girls, she said she is now satisfied with how things turned out.

I wonder how much of this push for her being Eagle is her father vs her.  

Note that she does reference if she will get credit for her prior work.  

The reason we are pushing is that some of the girls were interested in summer camps this summer.  By allowing them to join now they are eligible for camp.  Otherwise I agree and I’m not pushing any recruitment outside our current Pack families until next Scout year. 

On 8/16/2017 at 12:01 PM, NJCubScouter said:

Maybe there is another troop nearby with better meetings?

This option should not be overlooked.  My nephew was in Boy Scouts for years.  He hated Troop meetings (boring) but enjoyed the outings.  His grandfather (my dad) is still heavily involved in his Troop (committee member and at council runs many EBOR) and has had arguments with his Troop leader (who plays favorites and invents requirements for advancement).  Last blow up came when she refused to sign off all of the scouts leadership positions (except her sons) when she didn’t think they performed them to her expectations.  My dad pulled my nephew from the Troop and signed him up with another.  The other Troop is small and building. After the 1st meeting with his new Troop my nephew stated it was the first Troop meeting where he had fun (they worked on art MB). 

So, if it is an option, there may be other Troops that are out there that could be an improvement.  Perhaps not, but it doesn’t hurt to look.

I had a meeting with my DE.  Very few packs are proceeding with this option (my understanding is that my Pack is the only one or two in his district), so yes we will have a lot of love and attention from our DE.  

The DE will setup training and help explain how we can run a single cross grade den (similar to how he runs the extension? program).  Our DE has been very helpful but I do expect he will be monitoring for national.

I’m not sure what involvement there will be outside our DE; however, he emphasized that they will look for new leaders to be registered as den leaders to show separate den(s) for the girls.   I think it is clear that everyone knows many Packs will have single gender dens in name only but want to make sure this initial role out is single gender.   I actually think they should be less hands on to see how Packs will really react (or not have unique rules). Otherwise I’m not sure they will really learn how this change will really be implemented.  There is a bit of the thumb on the scale situation.

That said, the response from the Pack has been tepid.  We have 3 girls interested over the last 3 days.   Once I get a fourth we will start the official process.   

Does anyone have an rough org chart of BSA?  I’m curious what exists above the council level.  What could be saved at various levels to put more money at those directly working with scouters?   I don’t know if there is waste but I would be interested in the details.  I’ve worked at companies where large amount of cash was spent in HQ vs out in the field where it would have been more effective.  

This race exists for boys as well.  Just search 11 year old Eagle Scout.  I agree it is not a good thing, but it doesn’t really bother me that much.  From my experience those scouts are rare, a bit annoying but otherwise harmless to the remaining scouts.  If anything, it means the scouts that are racing get less out of the program.  I understand the girls who would age out racing to get Eagle more so than a boy (or girl) racing when they have plenty of time.  

A scout is Thrifty!  Without a doubt, pensions are becoming a rare benefit.  That said, I don’t believe DE’s salaries are high (based upon previous forum threads) and the loss of this benefit won’t help.  Yes, one can live off low salaries but not everyone is willing to work for $30-$40-$50k less per year.  My wife is a volunteer president of a food pantry.   The salary and benefits they offer their employees is minimal.  The issue they are running into is finding great leaders willing to work for such low salary and benefits, so they settle for suboptimal performance.     

My concern is that by cutting benefits on already low salary you are on a race to the bottom.  You’ll see jobs not being filled or filled by individuals that may not have the best performance.  I’m sure there are great leaders that are willing to sacrifice further, but it is definitely not good news for attracting top talent.  

If there is any question about BSA’s financial status I think this answers it.  The combination of cutting a pension benefit, huge increase in annual membership fee and  admitting girls seems to point to a cash concern.  I think the 2017 annual report will be an interesting read (2016 looked like a disaster).   I expect massive council consolidation (similar to Michigan) as the cost cutting continues.   I hope BSA finds a way to financial health soon.

I’m impressed with my DE and the amount of time he works.  Sad to see this benefit go away.

7 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

There's one problem with this whole debate about this girl getting credit for Eagle: Currently girls are NOT allowed to be in Boy Scouts (troops, not crews) in the United States OR do ANY work that will get credited toward Eagle.

This proves that her "fight" was NOT about getting girls in Scouts. It was about HER getting Eagle and nothing else.

I say too bad. You won the war but lost your battle. Take your triumph and move on.

Her “fight” could have been both about her own interest and also the broader “good”.   Either way, I think BSA should keep this simple.   Set the start date for girls, any girl that joins must meet the requirements (including timeline) for Eagle.   I think that leaves her out but honestly there are probably 1,000s of other girls in similar situations who did work without recognition.   I dont think she should get special treatment because her dad was a rich NYC lawyer who ensured her story was publicized.  True leaders would be excited for the change and confident that their work is the true mark of accomplishment and leadership... not the rank.   

So, we have started the process to add girls as part of the early adopter program.  Still early in the process so we will see where this goes

Requirements are similar to what you saw in the video.   It is clear they want us to keep the boy and Girl dens separate.  They want new den leaders for the all girls den(s).  It was mentioned that if we have 9 boys and 5 girls in the same level, they could meet same time/place but should have separate leaders and be separate during  the activity.  This is an emphasis of the early adopter program.  They do not want commingled dens. 

Minimum number of girls per Pack is 4-5.  There is no minimum per den.  We can combine girls in different age groups in the same all Girl den.   This probably explains the pack with 5 girls.

Right now, we are working on identifying girls that want to join and den leaders to cover their den(s).  If there is not enough interest we will stop.

Jan 15 is the official start date. 

I expect to see a lot of these announcements nationwide, especially if councils take advantage of the marketing potential.  To date, all of the discussion have been theory.  Once the general population starts seeing girl and boy cub scouts in Pinewood derby races opinions may get a bit softer and recruiting efforts may be more successful in the fall.  

Our council announced that they are looking for some Packs to add girls as early as Jan 15.  Our Pack is considering taking this on and are in discussions with Council on what prerequisites we must have in place.  Will keep you posted if we go ahead....