Eagle1993

One quick update that I’m not sure if anyone else noticed. The Be A Scout search now shows if packs are Boy only, Girl Only or mixed.  I haven’t found any that are listed as anything but Boy Only but something to watch for as this ramps up...

Expand the Morenci mine in Arizona. 

I also have problems with environmentalists who seem to believe food, products and electricity can just magically appear.  There are definitely trade offs that must be made and risk/benefit analysis should be considered.   

That said, I believe protecting water is especially critical as no mine or drill site can be 100% clean or operate without error.  My grandma had an oil well on her land in southern Illinois.   There were spills (relatively small).  The good news is that it wasn’t near a water way so to clean them up you dig out the containment and haul it to a landfill.

My wife has worked for a power company to remediate oil gasification sites.  Again, clean up is expensive but simple.  Dig, dig, dig up that muck and replace with clean soil.

100% on board with the comment that we have to allow drilling and mining ... but we should also have limits where the risk is simply too great.

I have fished multiple waterways (Milwaukee river, Illinois river, etc) that suffered from industrial pollution.  It has taken a generation for them to start to recover from one generation’s mistake.    I would not want to see that mistake  repeated.

I don’t believe the copper market is at a shortage crisis to the point that we should risk the BWCA.  Damage to waterways is long lasting and extremely difficult to repair.  

Thanks. I figure I would post weekly updates on progress/findings/etc.  

Signed.  There are some decisions and changes that can have lasting damage and cannot easily been undone.   BWCA is one of the few purely wild areas we have left in the Great Lakes.   

I think reporting in this case could be more about protecting the leader vs really a concern that something nefarious occurred.  As the leaders of this Troop created separate sleeping areas and s leader left the area to sleep with the youth he did open himself up to possible accusations.  What if one of the youth accuses him of crawling in his bunk during   that night six months from now?  Now you have a situation where an adult has clearly been the only adult sleeping in an area with youth.  That would be bit of a mess.  

Hell, if I did this I would send a report to my COR and DE.  I’d explain what and why it happened and ask them to fully investigate.  They should follow up with the other leaders and youth, see nothing else occurred, have me retrained in YPT, let the parents know and move on.  I’d apologize to the scouts and explain YPT and how it protects both l leaders and youth. If I were a scout and the leader was a good guy, I’d be impressed with his sense of accountability and feel YPT is way overly sensitive.  It should not be a black mark against his record (unless he repeatedly violates it) and it should show that he treats protecting youth seriously.

All of this assumes nothing else happened.  Almost no one on this forum know the guy or if he is a pedophile.  Pedophiles exist, they aren’t always apparent and the only way to truly protect youth is to strictly enforce YPT.  Yes, YPT can be a burden and our society jumps from accusations to guilt immediately; however, too long has BSA and leaders ignored situations that but youth at risk of perverts.  If reporting a borderline YPT violation helps ensure consistent and rigorous enforcement and thus Scouts from being assaulted then I’m all for it and any volunteer of youth should be as well.

10 minutes ago, MattR said:

If it was a diesel it would have run. Jet fuel is pretty close to diesel. But just in case you think it's a good idea, it isn't.

I wasn’t there when it occurred (it was prior to my time there).  Pizza guy came... started talking... ended up discussing jet fuel.  He volunteered his car (and only source of income) up for the experiment.   Needless to say it had a good short run before car death.   As was explained to me, he may have been smoking something that is legal in a few states.

My short stint at a refinery gave me more stories than nearly twenty years at my current employer.  

I will add that the oil change places that recommend changing oil every 3,000 miles is a scam.   Your owners manual is sufficient and even then probably a bit conservative.  I worked at a refinery for a short time and with a few engineers who were responsible for blending and delivery of motor oil.  They had measured oil out of engines after various mileage’s and indicated there was no noticeable degradation in performance until starting at 10,000 miles.  They said one could probably simply top off oil and replace the oil filter until 20,000+ miles. No one had the guts to actually implement that plan.  

They did fill a pizza delivery guy’s car with jet fuel.  It ran a few hundred yards.  Best time I had there was when the old timers sat around and discussed worst case scenarios at the refinery, many that would result in large craters and mass carnage.  

@blw2   I’m a member of several Reddit groups and keeping on point is most critical (at least for me) on non political threads.  For example, if you start a thread on ideal process to change brake pads on a 1997 Porsche 911 Turbo and someone starts discussing why you can run 13,000 miles between oil changes on a 2015 VW Passat it is not helpful.  First, those who are interested in VW Passat’s oil change interval will almost never find that interesting discussion buried in the original topic and second those interested in brake pads on a 911 Turbo now have to read through ramblings on VW.  

I would agrue the same applies for many threads here.  If someone starts a thread for SPL on smaller Troops it would be best  to keep it focused for both short term and long term (those that search threads in future). I think our mods do a pretty good job of balancing flow of conversation and keeping on topic   

Thread hijacking is not good internet decorum.  IT IS SIMILAR TO NOT TYPING IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME.  It is a consistent and common rule across nearly all forums.  I know I violate it from time to time and have no problem when called out.  It is simple enough to create a new topic.  

The tent vs other (bunk house, sub, cave) has been discussed by our leadership regarding YPT.  In many cases (outside tent) you have no choice but to have youth and adults sleep in the same area.  However, our focus was no one on one, female leaders separate as much as possible, two deep leadership when near youth, arrange sleeping arrangements as close to YPT tent policy as possible.

The violation is this case is the two deep leadership and the fact the Troop has found a way to keep leaders and scouts separate.  

I can completely see a leader, at 1am, groggy thinking to hell with this and pulling his bed into another room.  It doesn’t make him evil or bad but it does still seem to be a violation.  If he did it, he should even report it himself.  Let the DE investigate. Inform the parents of the findings (probably nothing) and move on.  

All of this is to protect both youth and leaders.  What happens if in 6 months one of those youth accuse him of jumping in his bed?  That is why he should have not done this in the first place and it should be reported and investigated.  

There is always a cost for training for any organization.  The question is who should pay. Natonal, council, unit or individual.  If training is a priority I would expect the expense to be covered by someone other than the volunteer.  Clearly training is not a priority for nationals or council so it is coming down to the unit or volunteer.  How many non profits charge you to volunteer and to be trained?   BSA is the only one I have been part of who charges a fee. 

The training charges are minimal in our council and our Pack covers them for any volunteer willing to take the time to be trained.  We cover the expense as part of our dues and fundraising budget as we see this as a priority.

My council only charges minimal fees for training, to cover basic costs.  $5 for position specific... and you get the Trained patch.  $12 for BALOO to cover some handouts and lunch.   I don’t hear complaints about cost only content and time (frequency and length).  

There are also A LOT of chatter at my council that Venturing will change as well.  As I was told, it was already seen as a program in decline (lowest number of members and highest attrition rate over last few years).   So, until announced officially, I am not sure that Venturing will remain unchanged.

I agree with @Eagle94-A1. Our council has also discussed paper dens and Troops.  It will happen.  There are already Troops with girls now with blue cards tracking MB progress.  They will find a way to comply on paper but create a coed Troop (theirs leaders, scouts and parents want it).  

As part of the Pack early adopter program my DE specifically told me that they will be strict with separate dens and meetings now (no paper dens); however, that will probably change when full roll out occurs. They won’t be able to police everyone.

So... you are correct regarding the video.  What really will happen remains to be seen. 

I’ve had a couple of discussions with my DE but to mention of this webinar yet.  I know there is a multi page FAQ that he was referencing. That is how I know we need new leaders for the Girl den(s) and there is no minimum number of girls per grade.  

@lupacexi

First welcome to scouter.  Your post is off topic so you may want to start a new topic in our U23 ASEAN FC section.  Also, Cho was offsides at 23’ so it should have been a draw.

So, please return to the topic at hand... Scouting options in the Sioux Falls area.

I just spent the last hour looking at the BSA reviews in Glassdoor. While you have to be careful believing everything there are many DEs who have submitted reviews over the last year.  You can probably guess the overall tone of the feedback...

Great feeling of helping and working with many volunteers and scouts. 

Pathetic pay $35-$40k per year and horrible work/life balance working 60-70 hours a week, most weekends and weekday nights. 

They also have issues regarding council and national leadership, outdated business model, wasteful spending and risky income sources.  A couple had comments that BSA is headed toward collapse (I don’t agree and perhaps that is just their emotional response).

Overall it confirms some of my fears.  I look at my DE and office staff (the front line) and have been (for the most part) impressed. My DE helps me out at all hours, travels a ton and is always there with advice.  I honestly don’t know what benefit we get from council and upper level paid leadership.  I certainly hope the organization relooks at where they allocate capital and ensure the most critical resources are given The highest priority.  From what I have seen to date I’m not sure that is the case. 

I believe the report should be available to the public.  I’m not sure if the below incident was discussed but it was another case of three boys (one killed two injured) in a sailboat that came into contact with overhead lines.  

http://www.ecmweb.com/content/dont-get-zapped-cable-clearance-over-water

Without making it public, how do regulatory agencies and private companies not involved with the incident ensure they have the proper processes in place to prevent this from occurring in other locations?  The goal should be to learn from these incidents to help prevent future harm.  

NPR had a good TED radio hour regarding transparency.  I think the medical device/nurse issue was a great example of why transparency is important (not only to prevent future incidents but also honoring the injured and deceased).

https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/567499335/transparency

Or just go on eBay and buy a car.  Have your au pair attend the Pack meeting with your son and fire her if he loses.  I’m not sure why everyone is making this so complicated. 

I’m not a fan of 3D printed car idea at this point... perhaps in the future when they are cheaper and more widely available.  For now, keep it simple and have the kids build as much of the car as they can based on their ability.  

Ever since we found out (after the race ceremony) that our winning scouts car was purchased for nearly $100 on eBay I’ve soured on the event.  Overall it is fun for parents and kids but there are still Too many parents overly involved with their kids race results.  Our biggest trophy is for Sportsmanship ship as well, but that hasn’t stopped some of the arguments (my favorite was one with a parent regarding why they ... i mean their kid.. placed 8th instead of 7th).  My stance.... it doesn’t matter.... they didn’t like that response.

I have no doubt most positions will be filled.  I also agree that the BSA may luck into some great people willing to work hard and stay on board with a low salary.

My concern is that generally you will not see consistent strong long term employees if you cut pay and benefits.  My wife’s food pantry is prime example.  They found a guy.  He isn’t innovative, sometimes misses deadlines, doesn’t fundraise well, etc.  However he shows up, the pantry functions and isn’t a drunk (all of which have been issues in the past).  They really want a better leader but cannot find one willing to work for just above minimum wage.   

Again, I know there are gems out there that would be great and would work for free, but long term this is not a great situation to ensure you can attract the top talent.

https://town-village.com/2018/01/03/st-girl-recognized-as-boy-scout-after-11-years-of-scouting/

While Sydney told Town & Village this week she would like to see the BSA do away with the holdup on accepting girls, she said she is now satisfied with how things turned out.

I wonder how much of this push for her being Eagle is her father vs her.  

Note that she does reference if she will get credit for her prior work.  

The reason we are pushing is that some of the girls were interested in summer camps this summer.  By allowing them to join now they are eligible for camp.  Otherwise I agree and I’m not pushing any recruitment outside our current Pack families until next Scout year. 

On 8/16/2017 at 12:01 PM, NJCubScouter said:

Maybe there is another troop nearby with better meetings?

This option should not be overlooked.  My nephew was in Boy Scouts for years.  He hated Troop meetings (boring) but enjoyed the outings.  His grandfather (my dad) is still heavily involved in his Troop (committee member and at council runs many EBOR) and has had arguments with his Troop leader (who plays favorites and invents requirements for advancement).  Last blow up came when she refused to sign off all of the scouts leadership positions (except her sons) when she didn’t think they performed them to her expectations.  My dad pulled my nephew from the Troop and signed him up with another.  The other Troop is small and building. After the 1st meeting with his new Troop my nephew stated it was the first Troop meeting where he had fun (they worked on art MB). 

So, if it is an option, there may be other Troops that are out there that could be an improvement.  Perhaps not, but it doesn’t hurt to look.

I had a meeting with my DE.  Very few packs are proceeding with this option (my understanding is that my Pack is the only one or two in his district), so yes we will have a lot of love and attention from our DE.  

The DE will setup training and help explain how we can run a single cross grade den (similar to how he runs the extension? program).  Our DE has been very helpful but I do expect he will be monitoring for national.

I’m not sure what involvement there will be outside our DE; however, he emphasized that they will look for new leaders to be registered as den leaders to show separate den(s) for the girls.   I think it is clear that everyone knows many Packs will have single gender dens in name only but want to make sure this initial role out is single gender.   I actually think they should be less hands on to see how Packs will really react (or not have unique rules). Otherwise I’m not sure they will really learn how this change will really be implemented.  There is a bit of the thumb on the scale situation.

That said, the response from the Pack has been tepid.  We have 3 girls interested over the last 3 days.   Once I get a fourth we will start the official process.