Eagle94-A1

If it seems as if I'm critical of the SPL, I'm not. Far from it as I think he is doing great job for the first time.  He took initiative. He planned it. He worked his people. And like any first time leader, mistakes were made. And I am hoping everyone concerned, grows from it. Especially some of the adults.  I am hoping and praying that some of the adults will back off and let them Scouts make their mistakes and learn form them.

ADDED

DANG just reread what I wrote and you're right, the bulk seems negative. i was trying to give a summary of the meeting, what could be improved, and what went really well.  I do not like ending things on a negative note, and try to end reflections on a positive note.

Want to emphasize the following.

1) I think the youth made a giant step forward. I hope it continues.

2) I think some of the worse offenders as adults are slowly seeing the light.

 

 

Next, National came out with a study around 1989 that showed that if scouts got to first class in their first year, they were likely to stay with the troop, aaaand, if the scout stayed with the troop a year, they were likely to stay several years.

 

NONE (emphasis) of the data from the 1989 survey mentioned program. I was one of those who did as much research as possible at the time, which was pre-internet and was basically the booklet and supporting literature.

 

My own study is that getting to first class has little effect of boys staying in the program, rather they stay with an active program that also typically encourages scouts to advance. But as some here already said, many scouts who don't advance quickly stay on as well. So it stands that the program is what attracts boys, not advancement by itself. Aaaaaand my data and experience show that if a scouts is still active after summer camp, you will likely keep him several years. The reason National can't get their one year number to months is because they can only  track yearly membership after rechartering, I tracked real time.

 

Agree Summer camp is THE biggest way to retain Scouts. We are not the best troop out there, we do have some challenges in youth led and some boring meetings. BUT those who have gone to summer camp stay around.

 

Between active program, and I mean monthly outdoor activities, you will retain scouts, especially after summer camp.

 

One of my beefs with National's 1989 data is that it was the motivation for creating New Scout Patrols (NSP), Venture Patrols, and the First Class in the First year program. All fine in theory, but the reality is that those changes shifted much of the control from the boys to the adults. Boy independence for directing their destiny in the program is heart of the classic scout program. Those changes inadvertently change that. 

 

My troop experimented with NSPs in 1986 and it was an abysmal failure. We lost 50% of the new Scouts, and that was not the norm.  We went back to mixed aged patrols. And when a new, 8 man Troop tagged along with us, we had the same problems when we assigned a TG to them to get started: too much for one Scout to teach and we lost 3. When the two troops merged, we merged them into my troop's existing patrols and the 180 degree turnaround was phenomenal. 

 

In looking at the current literature, BSA recommends having an ASM assigned to them. I do not ever remember having an adult assigned to my patrol to work with me. And that notion smacks of Cub Scouts IMHO.

 

As for FCFY, many felt it focused more on rank than mastery of the skills. A lot of us hated doing away with the time requirements for T-2-1 because we felt it allowed time for the Scouts to truly master the skills.

 

As for Venture crews, now called Venture patrols, for us it was just a new name for the Leadership Corps. The creation of the  Venture HA pins, and later allowing the folks in the Venture crew to earn Varsity sports pins ( and vice versa) on the Varsity/Venture Letter Award was never really popular.

 

AND, after all that, the data 20 year later in 2009 showed that the rate of loss for first year troop scouts is about the same. In fact, I was told once that the first year loss rate has always been the highest loss of scouts and has been and on going problem. National was wrong that same age patrols and advancement were the solution to the new scout dropping problem. If you aren't willing to consider that, than you will struggle to have an open mind for solutions.

 

So, what does it take to keep a new scout long enough that he buys into the program. Well after a lot of years of researching this, I and a few others concluded that the huge jump of going from an adult lead lifestyle all their life to a self independent decision making program where boys around your age are responsible for your health and safety is pretty scary. Very scary in fact. At first independence appeals to these new scouts who have been told by "adults" that they get to make their own decisions in the troop, but it doesn't take long to realize that living with your personal decisions, and more importantly having to live with your buddy decisions, may not be fun or in the scouts best interest. So, the scout starts looking for excuses to skip a meeting or two, then a campout and eventually several campouts. Summer camp is kind of the final straw. But interestingly enough scouts who attend summer camp are forced to endure the scouting lifestyle long enough that it starts to grow on them and they except it for the better things like, well like adventure.

 

So, what can a troop do to get the scout from adult led life to wondering by himself in the darkness. The best programs I've seen use a New Scout ASM who works close with the Patrol Leaders or Troop Guides to show the scouts how the boy run system not only works, but is kind of cool. Also the ASM and the PL/TG work as a team to show the new scout that PL/TG are in control and the ASM is the assistant to the PL/TG. The ASM is also a safety valve for the new scout so that when he gets uncomfortable with the program and still doesn't trust the youth led style, they can seek out a friendly trusted adult. But, the ASM will always defer and work with the patrol leader with the intent of helping the new scout see and learn to trust that the PL truly is the person responsible for his safety and welfare and that they are very capable. Safety and welfare are typically a new scouts concerns. How many times have new scouts urinated on their tent in the middle of the night because the darkness of the woods terrified them to go any farther?  

 

The trick to the ASM/PL relationship is that the ASM needs to gradually step back as the new scout gets more comfortable. We found that the ASM was pretty much finished after two or three months. 

 

Now we can go back and forth on New Scout Patrols or friends or mixed age patrols, but they don't really matter if the troop isn't dealing with the problem of getting the new scout comfortable with making independent decisions and that his safety and welfare are good in the hands of the other scouts. 

 

The challenge I'm currently finding in my troop regarding NSPs is that A) the adults are to quick to jump in and help the NSP, and they never really get the chance to solve their own problems. and B) the youth keep coming to the adults with problems. Part of that  is that we have not really had good TGs IMHO.

 

That is a very basic take on the subject from what I have learned over the years.

 

.THANK YOU!

Barry

FCFY implies that the scout will be active enough to complete all the necessary requirements.  FCFY should not be a patrol/troop/adult goal.  The real goal should be an active troop.  Scouts stay if the there are fun, cool, different, challenging things to do.  Boring meetings, lack of outings will drive away scouts.  Fill meetings with learning and/or fun activities, the scouts will stay.  Offer at least one campout a month year round, scouts will stay.  If the "monthly campout" is really an activity where scouts happen to stay in a tent, so much the better.  IE; A weekend canoe trip where they campout overnight.  A hiking/backpacking trip, Rock climbing/rappelling, mountain biking, wilderness survival, No pot cooking etc.  If there is some activity or goal, the scouts will attend.  Even the older, jaded scouts will show up to do the activity.

 

 

This is where BSA missed the mark with the 1989 report and succeeding ones. "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING" and "SCOUTING IS OUTING!" as Green Bar Bill said repeatedly. And if BSA can't even get the quote correct, as they didn't do in the current handbook, then you know the folks at National have lost touch.

 

Further, IMHO if you have an active troop, AND you get the Scouts to do their one month of exercises and show improvement, you SHOULD be able to get First Class in a year as "naturally as a suntan..." Heck I got 6 Scouts right now who only need to do the exercises and show improvement and they can go fro their T-2-1 BORs in 1 nite since they have been with the troop approx. 9 months now.  

 

 

We try to get the crossovers to attend at least 2 but preferably all 4 campouts between Feb crossover and June summer camp.  If we can get them thru a week of summer camp, they build strong friendship and patrol bonds.  They form a true team bond during the week of summer camp.  The few crossovers who don't attend summer camp, don't form the bond and often feel left out of the cliché.  Usually gone within 2 months.

Update from the meeting this week.

SPL does need to work on communication and insuring instructors know in advance what they are doing and/or giving them a chance to practice. Also needs to make sure they have supplies

Instructor(s) needs to know the skills, practice before hand, and learn how to use their resources.

Adults need to learn to butt out of the process, especially if they do not know the skills.

What do I mean?

SPL talked to most of the folks instructing at the Christmas Party, but not everyone. Didn't follow through to remind them or contact those not at the party. Nor did he have all the equipment. I admit, I brought supplies "just in case." He needs to make sure to contact everyone and plan, plan, plan. Something I need to talk to him about.

Some of the instructors he did talk to, didn't practice ahead of time. So instead of helping out with the other skills, they were on the side practicing what they were suppose to teach. So instead of the older Scouts working one-on-one or two-on-one with the new Scouts, it was 1 person working with the new Scouts. AND since this was his first time teaching, it was challenging. Plus some of the Scouts who knew what was being taught, because they were not told to help their buddies, did the skill and waited.  

As for adults, we do need to butt out. Especially those who don't know the skill. We had 2 recently moved up CS leaders trying to teach knots using smart phone apps. I admit eventually jumping in after seeing the older scouts working on their stuff and not working with the younger ones, and the NSP folks getting frustrated. TG cannot do it all by himself. And those that know haven't learned to take initiative.

So what was so positive about the "organized chaos" and adult involvement?

1) This was the first time the youth did all the planning and organizing on their own? Yes, they received a copy of the Troop Planning Features from me, but the SPL appointed the instructors, was responsible for planning, etc. For me this is a step in the right direction.

2) For the most part, the adults realized that they are jumping in too much now. We were talking about the issue of the NSP, and several agree, including the possible new SM, that we need to move away from the NSP and go "old school" with mixed aged patrols so that no one Scout is responsible for working with all the new Scouts. I did have to tell the two new leaders that we need to wait until the next patrol elections to make changes instead of the adults jumping in and making the changes for the Scouts.  We need to let them figure it out.

Before BSA produced a spiral bound book, a friend of mine took his to some printing shop where they cut the perfect bound book and turned it into a spiral bound book. When the first spiral bound book came out, he didn't like the quality nor the cost, and repeated the above. He said it was better quality and cheaper.

As a former pro and long time volunteer, I've seen good DEs, and I have seen bad ones. I've seen some coast, and I seen some burn out with exhaustion. I've seen some that had "leverage" over the upper management and didn't have to lift a finger to succeed, and some  were so hounded by the upper management, that they worked so much that their marriage, and even health failed them. And of course I've seen a bunch leave in frustration and disillusionment.

My thoughts.

1) I think the parents do not understand the process and need to be registered. The MB process is a chance for the Scout to show interest without parental involvement. It is also suppose to allow him initiative.

2) Me personally, I will NOT sign off on any of my son's advancement UNLESS there is no other registered MBC in the district, and even then I will have another adult look at the stuff and verify that he is actually doing it.

We had an issue a while back in my council with one grandfather, father, and mother registering to be MBCs in addition to their unit roles of IR/CC, SM, and ASM. They were not doing a proper job, and no one on the district or council level was aware of the problems until the grandson/son went for his Eagle BOR.  He didn't do the work. An appeal went to national, was granted I his favor with the comment you don't penalize the Scout for adult mistakes, and the entire district advancement committee resigned in protest. 

Another issue, and one I've known since Cub Scouts, is that tend to expect more out of my son than others. So I'd rather he go elsewhere to get an unbiased MBC.

3) In the units I've been in, the troop had policies that parents do not sign off on advancement UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (emphasis). Example of that was one Nuclear Science MBC in the entire council, so son and a few friends worked on it with dad the MBC.

BLW2,

The Leadership Corps was what the Venture crew (not Venturing Crew), now called a Venture patrol, was called back in my day. usually it was the older Scouts who had troop level positions: QM, Librarian, Instructor, etc.

Lots of different ways to work it, but here is how it worked in my troop. If I can find the Leadership Corps book I'll post some official stuff. ,

1. Had to be First Class or above, a PL for at least 6 months (most were a PL for year or longer), and be elected by existing members of the LC to be a member.

2. ASPL was the PL of the LC since he is responsible for supervising the troop appointed positions.

3. Everyone had a role to play, even if they didn't have a formal POR as being in the LC was a POR from 72-89.

4. We ran the interpatrol activities for the troop.

5. We would occasionally did our own activities. Best example would be the Vicksburg Military Park trails. Instead of the 14 mile road trip, we would do the 12 mile as the crow flies cross country orienteering trek, or if that was closed do the 14 and 7 mile road trips. Rest of the troop did the 14 miler.

OK I'm back

3) Since all the Varsity Teams I've seen have been LDS, yes I've heard on non-LDS teams but have not seen them, I think the reason for the switch from Leadership Corps to Venture crew, as well as the creation of the  high adventure activity pins for wear on the Varsity/Venture V Award, was created based upon LDS units using Varsity Teams.

Eagledad, and everyone,

 I was thinking about something you wrote.  You said something about same age patrols and the troop guide position being created at the same time as a fix of some sort.  

I'm curious, when did these come about, and for what reason?

The concept of the New Scout Patrol and Troop Guide position came out officially in August 1989 as part of the OPERATION FIRST CLASS Program. National did some research saying that Scouts who get First Class within a year tend to stay in Scouting longer, and looked at some things to use to retain membership. Hence Operation First Class. The New Scout patrol, Troop Guide, renaming the Leadership Corps the Venture crew, etc as well as doing away with time requirements between T-2-1 ranks were all party of that process.

My thoughts;

1) While the report does show a correlation between advancement and retention, it did not show, nor even address, an active program. In my expereince, a 'hiking and camping troop" will retain Scouts.

2) I'm willing to bet that the LDS units separation of their 11 year olds from the rest of the troop  not only heavily influenced the concept of NSPs, but may have skewed some of the advancement data. Seems as if LDS units have had a focus on advancement over program since the 11 years olds are limited to 3 camp outs/year.

In retrospect, I think the LDS units may be one reason why advancement may have been used as a measurement for retention instead of programming.

More later

The back of the sash can be used for camp patches and past ranks if they like too. IF a scout has

long-aleeve shirt, he can wear up to six on the right sleeve above the cuff. In the day, when most kids had long-sleeve shirts, we almost all wore them there to start.

My troop, stressing troop, growing up had a policy of anyone with 7 or more MBs could wear a sash. I think it came from the long sleeve shirt policy. HOWEVER none of us ever wore long sleeve shirts.

Otherwise ANYONE can wear a MB sash.

Hedgehog,

ROTFLMBO!

The duty roster story reminded me of one of the biggest issues.

Now the folks in the NSP have been in the troop anywhere from 6-8 months, with one guy coming aboard last December. So they have some camping experience and know why a duty roster is important. Also their troop guide was a PL, so he knows as well.

WWWWEEEEELLLLL the duty roster was just a list of working pairs with no meals or duties listed. Just a bunch of names on a grid. And no one but the TG had a copy of it, and it was in a book. Grant you I had to intervene, because an argument was going on and nothing was getting done. Asking questions was the way to get them to realize how  they can imporve the process.

For got to add, the only expectation was camp to be broken by a certain time and give them the chance to goof off before leaving. Took over 4 hours to cook, clean, and break camp.

One more update.

Talking to oldest about the situation and asked his opinion on some things. Asked what he thought of splitting up the mixed age patrol and having the NSP divide up in May when we do elections. Said it it wouldn't work as there are some issues between the two patrols. Asked for his idea, and he said just add new scouts to the existing patrols and divide the patrols when we need to.

Yep, I'm using my experiences as a guide.

As to using BP's and GBB's literature, if you read it does it say anywhere about boys joining as an entire den at one time? I don't think you will find one as that concept is a relatively new one.

It used to be boys joined Boy Scouts as soon as they turned 12, then it was dropped to 11. I don't know when the concept of entire dens crossing over at one time came out, but I know it wasn't a big deal like it is today in the early 80s.

As Eagledad said, dividing up the new Scouts had some benefits.

1) No single patrol is at a disadvantage. Let's face it during any type of competition, the NSP will have a big disadvantage in regards to skills. Venture patrol runs the competition and acts as judges, all the other patrols compete on an even keel with a mixture of experienced and new Scouts.

2) One Scout alone cannot teach a patrol of new Scouts.  This is not only based upon my experience as the "troop guide" ( I was appointed the PL of the NSP back in the day), but also on my observations and experiences as an adult. I remember being overwhelmed at times as a youth, and I have observed either more older Scouts having to get involved, the troop guide being overwhelmed, or worst adults getting involved. The last campout is the best example. TG was working so hard trying to supervise dinner and KP, that the patrol campfire was neglected. No campfire for them. Then the next morning, again TG was focused on dealing with cooking and KP issues that striking tents was not done as the PL had no experience and was clueless as to what needed to be done. Unfortunately adults got involved.

In a mixed aged patrol, experienced Scouts buddy up with new Scouts to do the various jobs, insuring that things get done. PL usually is an experienced Scout who has some knowledge, skills, and abilities to get jobs done without adults getting involved.

3) Gives the experienced Scouts a taste of teaching, leading, and ownership. THEY are responsible for training the next group of Scouts in the troop. That mentorship is a great bond building tool. I know I' m still in contact with my PL, and SPLs from my old troop to this day.

Your BSA record follows you. That is, assuming the system itself has not deleted you (see other threads on that subject). Your BSA ID will continue to be linked to your log in on myscouting. When you cross over eventually your records will be "redirected" from your Pack to your Troop.

Only if you stay with in council. Unless things have changed, if you move to a different council, you get a new ID number, and you got to resubmit records.

One of the biggest P.I.T.B.s when I moved 5 times in 7 years, was having to resubmit copies of everything.

BLW,

Prior to 1989, the only types of patrols were the "Traditional" or mixed-aged patrol, and an older Scout patrol. The older Scout patrol has gone through various changes, both in program and name.

The idea of the traditional or mixed aged patrol was two fold:  first was to get a bunch of buddies together with similar intersts. But the second was to get Scouts of different abilities and expereince working together. Older Scouts in the patrol helped the younger scouts. The older Scouts in the patrol were the ones who taught vartious scoutcraft skills, in my expereince by buddying up with one or two new scouts.

When my troop tried the NSP idea in 1986 as part of the experiment, it was a complete and utter failure. One person could not teach and work effectively with a bunch of new scouts. We lost a few Scouts because we did have a lot of problems on camp outs that the other patrols did not have. We went back to mixed aged patrols in 1987.

When a new, patrol -sized, troop was formed, they went camping and did things with us to help them get on their feet. This was circa 1990, and that "troop" had major issues as no one had the basic T-2-1 Skills mastered. Eventually that troop merged with us, and the patrol was split into existing patrols. Never again did they put all the new scouts in one patrol.

I want to say the NSP concept came from how the LDS troops are organized. All 11 year olds are in one patrol, with adults working with them until they turn 12. If you look at BSA training materials, it says the NSP has a NSP ASM assigned to them in addition to a TG.I do not like that because under the traditional patrol method, the only time adutls get involved is for safety, and if the Scouts can't teach somehting.

An update.

Looks like we may have a new SM. My friend may be taking on the job since he is no longer affiliated with the pack. We'll see how long that lasts since one son is a Webelos, and step-son will be a Tiger next year. Plus his job. But he did say that with the abundance of adult leaders to help, we should have no problems. His approval as SM is in the hands of the troop committee and church committee. Thankfully he's a member of the church, and former youth minister.

New SPL so far has taken the job seriously. Haven't worked with him since the Christmas Party though. But he does wants to adults to butt out a bit, only helping when asked. I hadn't told him my son's idea of only having 1 adult in the meeting room with the rest in another room.

While we technically have 2 NSPs, in actuality we only have 1. The other is more a mixed aged patrol, they just haven't focused on advancement. Funny thing is, the 30 days of exercises is holding most back from Tenderfoot, and talking to the SM for Second and First Class.

The actual NSP only got one new Scout from the Cross Over this month. The other 2 went to a nearby troop. That's fine. And in some aspects we needed a break from growth. The NSP needs some help, and we need to get the troop up to speed ASAP. One of the local packs that normally Crosses Over in December decided to hold back to March and the council Webeloree. DL wants to make a big production of the Cross Over at Webeloree. It will be the first Webeloree Cross Over in about 3 or 4 years as most troops in our area do Cross Over in the December through February range. So we may be getting 5 more. I do know that the WDL wants to keep the den at the CO's troop. Now if we could only get the CO's troop involved with the pack.

We need to get ready for next year. There is the potential to get up to 18 new Scouts from my troop's CO's pack. Yep, they have 18 Webelos. And I have a feeling that my middle son, who is in another pack, will bring over his 10 man den. Sadly the pack's brother troop is not doing much with them.  So even if we get half of the possible 28, that's still two NSPs!

We do calendar years for planning purposes, not traditional program years. So the Annual Planning Conference was just done. The camp outs and activities are not as "adventurous" as some would like. But maybe that is what we need to get the two actual NSP patrols completely up to speed and doing thing correctly.  I have a feeling that if we get 14 new Scouts next year, we will need to go "old school" and have "Traditional Patrols" and a venture patrol for the older Scouts in troop level leadership roles. I really do think having everyone mixed up helps transition and camping out more.

I admit, I was "encouraged" to get Eagle by an uncle and cousin. But it was two other cousin's double Eagle COH that really impressed and inspired me to get Eagle as an 8 year old Wolf Cub Scout. In fact, the entire troop made such an impression on me, that when I switched troops, I went to them.

^{I admit, the adults made the decision for the Cross Over we got 2 weeks ago: wait until January 26th to get the new book, and just start using the new requirements.  Since his Cross Over, all we had was the Christmas Party. Next Week is the next meeting.}

^{For the rest of them, We've informed them they have until December 31, 2016 to get to First Class or the next higher rank under the current requirements.}

^{What I hope does NOT happen is that units ignore the changes and have their Scouts keep working on the old requirements. Had a troop do that, and when they folded, some transferred Scouts had some advancement challenges. One of those Scouts had to appeal for an extension to get Eagle!  Thankfully, he got it.}

"As for the original questions, like others, I'm not as skilled in the specifics of how the one-year webelos program works within the LDS units, but for other units, say a boy in 4th grade worked on, but did not complete the Webelos badge; it is my understanding that any adventures he earned could be use to fulfil the elective requirements for the AOL (since they technically were not used for the Webelos Badge)."

Only as electives. HOWEVER I do not know how the Webelos Duty to God and You Adventure and Arrow of Light Duty to God in Action Adventure would work since the first requirement is identical, and the rest are nearly identical.

<<Regardless, this is cubs.  Aside from doing their best to do what they think is justifiable and right, who cares.  >> 

 

 

Generally speaking, I agree.

 

But you need to consider the affect of this on other boys in the den or pack who are working hard to complete requirements.  It can be VERY discouraging to see another boy skate and receive a coveted award that another boy has worked very hard for.  I would take that affect quite seriously.

 

And the affect of the boy who gets the award should be considered as well.  If he learns that poor performance leads to reward,  he might well learn that lesson too.  I would take that quite seriously as well.  

 

​Finally,  there is nothing wrong with not receiving the AOL.  

 

Fairly often I encounter adults who apologize for not earning Eagle when they were boys.  m I tell them (and I believe)  that the most important rank in Scouting is First Class.  Boys usually enter Scouting with the aim of becoming competent hikers and campers,  which is what the 1st class award symbolizes.

 

Eagle is fine for those who want Extra Credit.  But the real achievement in BSA should be obtained in the course of earning First class,  in my opinion.

 

Usually,  those adults are a lot happier after I make those comments.

 I agree with you, and think the new changes greatly diminish the AOL and the work of those who have been with the program a while. But the new rules are the new rules. We cannot add nor subtract them.

Vumbi,

Actually my first year Webelos pointed it out to me. When he got his new book, he read it, and told me he didn't need to earn Webelos to get his AOL. So he was going to skip it and go directly to AOL so he can move up in May at 10.5 years.

Then he changed his mind and decide to stick with his friends.

Unless it's district or council level folks, the troop or team committee selects the adult. The committee should be following the rules.  But I've seen SMs allow folks to be candidates for election when they didn't meet the camping requirement. So I guess committees would too.

Unfortunately there is no check as a "Scout is Trustworthy...."

I know LDS units do things a little differently, i.e. no Tigers; Wolves are age 8; Bears age 9; and Webelos age 10, and I do not know how the new program affected the LDS format.

BUT under the new Cub Scout program, Webelos is not needed to earn AOL. BUT they need to do the new Adventures to get the AOL badge.

Powderhorn  is suppose to be a pin now.

I've given out the flint and steel tools before.  Real cheap ones to fit in budget. This specifically http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Starter-Flint-Stone-Lighter/dp/B00K5I058Y/ref=pd_sim_468_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=51dUlP1NKVL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=15598NXPK8BS0N9YS5PE

They do work, but a bit of practice is needed.

BERSTIE,

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

All,

if you red my question on how to your units conduct elections and appoint positions, then you have a bit of an update.

Elections, which should have been easy and smooth, turned into a long convoluted process. Long story short, you cannot nominate yourself, you need to be nominated for office. AND everyone seemed like they needed to reciprocate by nominating the person who nominated them for the same position

And it's kinda a "tradition" that you don't vote for yourself. At least that's what my son told me. Found out last nite when the unit did OA elections and we were talking about them. That and some other things the OA didn't do or say, but that's a different story.

An aside, never plan a unit election the same nite as a Cross Over ceremony, when the bulk of your election team are on the ceremony team as well.

BACK ON TOPIC.

While the SPL and  PLS were elected, unfortunately the rest of them were appointed by the SM. Folks were nominated for the various positions, but he appointed them. Not too happy about that as well, especially since I know one appointment was made because  an ASM plans on doing the bulk of the work since he is a gear junkie.

Campout this weekend was OK, but we had issues.  new SPL didn't plan anything because the SM told him he would take care of it. I personally was not happy about that, and we did have some bored Scouts and visiting Webelos. Not how SPL or I envisioned it.

NSP had some arguing about stuff bought, not bought, and lost. I had to intervene to prevent a parent from going off on some of the Scouts. Long story short, Dad worked with scout prior to the trip and told the scout he should get some clarifications on items on the list to make sure the son bought the right stuff. Son did get clarification, and he shopped for the list as specified. Dad was the one who took him shopping, but did not interfere. Again  if it wasn't on the list, the Scout did not buy it. When the patrol started getting ticked off and call the scout an idiot, dad almost went ballistic. I jumped in and worked with them. I'd rather they get a talk about how things work and Scout Spirit from me than an angry parent.

An aside; funny thing is the guy calling folks "idiot" was the one who when he was suppose to shop, grandma did it for him, went overbudget buying stuff not on the list or more food than the list stated, and ended up paying out of pocket for a good bit of it. And about 1/3 of the food was thrown away because it was too much or improperly stored.

Dinner was "interesting" in that for the most part the scout were left alone. Very hard for the parent to do and one of the ASMs. One idea to distract adults, playing card games. that kept them busy a good bit. Kids had some issues, but dealt with it themselves. Adults got involved when it was discovered the NSP  didn't have cleaning supplies. We did a trade: cleaning supllies in exchange for them doing our dishes. The adults were happy with that, but don't think the Scouts were.

The NSP also had problems in that the duty roster they came up with was incomplete, missing information, and the TG and PL were having issues with who was suppose to do what. While they eventually got that settled, they  did get a reminder that the duty roster needs to be complete. Frustrating that the TG needed a reminder about the completeness of menus. But glad that he worked out issues that were arising in regards to cooking and KP. Yep, one Scout wanted to be a slacker and not do KP properly.

Morning was a charlie foxtrot. took the NSP 4 hours to cook, do KP, and strike camp. It was bad enough that parents were showing up to pick up the kids, and one of them got involved. He's is now moving from WDL to some troop position, so it's going to get interesting. Need to get him trained and OUT OF THE SCOUTS' HAIR.  He was the one who bought the food for the patrol previously. He was complaining about the chaos that is the  NSP and has jumped in once before.

On a positive note, they were able to camp spread out. They cooked under the same shelter, which caused some headaches, but overall they were doing stuff as patrols.

We got a lock in next month. Because of the improper food storage situation and issues with KP 2 months ago, and almost this weekend before the TG nipped it in the bud, we have a retired health inspector coming in to talk about the importance of storing food properly and cleaning properly.  I'm hoping it has some "cool" photos and isn't boring lecture. That was adult driven.

But after rock climbing, we will be having a "field day." Troop spent money getting supplies for the Scouts, and as I've mentioned, some of the supplies were not taken care of and thrown away, or are missing. Patrols have not kept inventories, despite repeated suggestions to do so. While the Field Day was essentially an adult decision, we do have buy in from most of the Scouts as they are sick of other patrols borrowing stuff and not returning it.

And I think that's another issue. Instead of always  having three patrols, we have been combining them from time to time based upon numbers. In fact I want to say the last time the NSP used their patrol box was the camp out I got injured at.

Long journey ahead.