Eagle94-A1

Flannel shirt, denim blue jeans, and hiking boots might far better than the blazer.

How about jacshirt (red or green), switchbacks, boots, and expedition hat or smokey bear?

In regards to the professional uniform and commissioners:

(in best whiney Darth Vader voice in SWRotS voice)

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though, I've found that with some folks, wearing the field uniform helps new leaders get comfortable with some of the advice and help we give. And for some new leaders, they may not know what all the knots mean, but they do understand I've been there, done that, and have probably encountered the issues they are dealing with.

And yes, there are some who, no matter how you try and help them, they will ignore you, tell you and the Scouting program needs to change with the times, etc.

In fact, you can work this all the way up to Tico as the National Commish.  That WILL make things exciting in your Council, when the SE gets a call from the National Commish.  Professionals tend to avoid being in the deer in the headlights

Try having the retired CSE as a UC in your district. Yep Brock is now a UC somewhere in my council.

I think you might be talking about the controversy when the sheriff or Police Chief in the NO area authorized his officers to shoot nutria on the levees on their offtime--the department provided the ammo. 

That's a new one for me, but I can believe Sheriff Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish would do that, and I can see where some would complain. He was the one pushing for unlimited hunting of them on the banks of the various canals for a small yearly fee, I think it was $5 to cover the license.  PETA went ape over the matter when I lived there.  Trust me the nutria were a major problem.  You could see large groups of them  in the canals about 1/4 of a mile from my house. And I lived in a well developed suburb of New Orleans.

Doesn't ring true. There has been a bounty on nutria since about 2002--$5 a tail. 

 

http://www.nola.com/environment/index.ssf/2014/01/bounty_hunters_making_dent_in.html

http://modernfarmer.com/2015/01/can-anyone-stomach-orange-toothed-giant-rodent/

OUTSTANDING! I left New Orleans in 1997 before the program came about.

One of our former leaders was on call 24/7. He was head of the SWAT team. He always had his gear on him or in his vehicle. Current ASM who conceal carries does so when on duty/call.

 When was the last time anyone taught a class to adults or to scouts on how to sharpen an ax?  Can anyone tell me why a full ax, and 3/4 ax, a hand ax and a belt ax are all sharpened differently?  Probably not, because BSA no longer teaches the use of axes anymore.  Don't have time. 

Funny you mentioned this. When I last did IOLS, I reviewed both the syllabus AND then current BSA handbook. A LOT OF BASIC INFORMATION WAS MISSING FROM BOTH! (emphasis)  The instructors and I got together and reviewed what was missing, and sources to get them. A lot of that missing info we included came from previous BSHBs and field books. A few things I found online which I liked better. To include this info, we created a pamphlet to be handed out.

For axe usage, we used an circa 1950s USFS pamphlet to give additional info.

When I was last called to help with the SLS training, both Cub and Scoutmaster, I was disappointed to note the curriculum had been cut significantly. See the appropriate threads here for details. The reason seemed to be (1) deal only with what SMs are officially responsible for (cut out discussion of finance, for instance) and (2) It was "too long" before.

 

 

ROTFL!

Obviously those complaining Specific Training is too long have never gone through the old SMF. 1 Full Day mixed classroom and outdoors, 1 night time classroom that incorporated a model meeting, and one full weekend ( Friday thru Sunday) camp out. It was spread out over a month, and you were "encouraged" to have a patrol meeting in there too.

A few comments.

1)  Specific training, aka classroom training, doesn't have a test out. I taught both the pre-2015 and the current, 2015 version and the latest has left out a SIGNIFICANT portion of the pre-2015 version, and it still doesn't compare to older versions. Because Specific is suppose to be placed into SCOUTNET, I do not know if it will allow a "youth" to have that training. KEEP THE TRAINING CARD just in case ( all caps are emphasis)

2) IOLS does allow a test out option. When we did it in my district, it is a one day, pass or fail, event. At the moment we have a 100% pass rate, but only 2 adults have done that option. 1 was prior military, 1 was a youth staffer on the IOLS course I taught (his dad, who replaced me as training chair, didn't want to give him credit for IOLS as he thought it may appear to be showing favoritism to his son. Hence he made his son do the test out with other leaders present.)

3)  I've used folks as staff who I knew had the knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience to teach IOLS, EVEN IF THEY DID NOT TAKE THE IOLS COURSE. I think the Scouter who has been to Philmont 3 times, or the WB 3 beader who also worked on summer camp staff as a youth and is an MBC for several outdoor MBs can teach these basic courses without having to go through them. Let them teach, and get credit at the same time.

4) Does anyone remember when national made the big push on training records on SCOUTNET, but the powers that be only thought about using codes for the then current training? Or how at one point national was trying to make everyone redo training every time the name of the course changes?

One of the things my DE at the time told me to do because of the above, and I still do it to this day, is for every class I teach, also list me as a student, and issue a card to myself. That way I am always "current" in my training, and I don't have to deal with any headaches getting records up to date.

My thoughts, and I've been a UC.

1) There is training, and if memory serves, it's a day long one. Sorry it's been 18 years since I did it, and having been a DE prior to being UC, it was a rehash.

2)  UCs should have knowledge, skills and experience working with multiple units prior to being a UC. Being  on training staff, attending  RTs etc so that folks know who he is and can know the advice given is sound.

More later

BSA and conceal carry? 

 

Did I miss something? I thought BSA policy was no weapons except for on approved firearms events and then limited to those allowed firearms.

Krampus,

Law enforcement are allowed to carry at BSA functions. The ASM in my troop works in law enforcement, and is regularly called out from meetings and camp outs as part of his duties.

There are a variety of reasons why someone who is young (under 30) may e go into the commissioner corps.

1) They don't want to be committed to a single unit as a leader.  That was my case once I quit being a DE. I didn't want to "show favorites" and work with one specific unit. It was interesting going from DE to UC, but very doable.

2) Have a Scouter who wants to help out, but can not commit to being a unit leader for whatever reason. A freind of mine and I just recruited someone under 30. Between his USAFR and med school commitments, he doesn't  have the time for weekely meetings. But checking on the units, helping with paperwork, He can do.

3) No kids in the program, and wants to help out as he can.  Have a UC with 2 daughters in that situation.

Maybe BSA needs to rethink it's policy on SM conceal carry policies.

 

It's a scary world out there.

 

 

One of our ASMs regularly conceal carries to meetings and on a few camp outs. He's also been known to show up in the CSI van to meetings and camp outs, and leave early when the citizens of our city do not behave.  On those occasions, I give him the benefit of the doubt for not wearing his Scout uniform and shows up in his work uniform.

Wow!

 

Finally a scouter who dumps his life on something other than sexual abuse......

 

I'm tempted to make a joke about a Jihad ScoutMaster, but maybe it wouldn't turn out to be a joke.... (knock on wood!).

Don't go there. Hamas and ISIS have youth programs modeled off of Scouting.

Also heard from a friend about one Scout getting ticked off and threatened to have his jihadi cousins blew up the CO. That threat was reported to authorities.

Thread reminds me of an incident a few years back. I had to make a trip with expected bad weather and one of the interstates closed for a long section due to rock slides. I had the alternate route planned, and a back up route planned in case the snowstorm hit earlier. I got to the funeral OK, but decided to leave early to avoid the snowstorm. Well, my father, sister, and brother were freaking out because I was leaving early to take the backup route without a GPS unit. They could not understand how I could plan a way home with only a map.

Now here is where it gets funny. Previously I rode with sis and her GPS, and road consruction threw both the unit and my sister off. I had to piont out the detour signs after several attempts to follow TomTom. Well on the way home, there was a major accident that shut down the road I needed to take. I bet if I only had TomTom, I'd still be stuck. I was able to pull intoa parkinglot, get my bearings, and use the map I had to create Plan D and get home safely.

What you suggest is one option.  But if your council does not have the mandatory "Trained" requirement, mine is still  phasing it in, then he would be good to go with just YPT.

IF your council is one with the mandatory training, then get him registered as UNIT SCOUTER RESERVE (92U is the code). That position was created specifically for 18-20 year olds who want to be active, but cannot get all of the training yet, and are too young to be committee members.

As someone who has been in similar shoes, i.e. young family and OA chapter advisory, training chair, etc with a young family,  I can tell you it's doable, BUT you must have a VERY supportive wife. One thing that helped me out was that for the first 4 years I was a parent, I was in grad school. Since my classes were at night, I was a stay at home dad. So I was able to be with the kids for a lot of the time.

Doesn't mean SWMBO and I dad I disagreements and arguments over my involvement in Scouting. Especially when the third one showed up, and I finally finished grad school and was working full time. Upon reflection, approx. 90% of the arguments the wife and I have had involved Scouting.

This is something to think about. 

Me personally, I'm addicted to Scouting. I tried twice to step away from Scouting. First time lasted about 4 months. Only lasted that long because the job was working with "hoods in da woods." Second time lasted about 1.5 weeks.

Good luck.

We, meaning the youth, didn't allow for switching patrols or PLs until the 6 months were up. Reason for that was to emphasize that decisions do have consequences. If you switch patrols, you need to adapt to that patrol's standards. If you elect a PL that ends up lousy, you need to live with the consequences until their term of office is over.

Funny thing is that the PLs usually did outstanding jobs and had minor complaints.  We had issues with a few SPLs, and teh ASPL either picked up the slack, or took over for the remaining term

@@blw2 ,

For the most part, the only time people switched patrols were A) when we created the NSP in 1986, and I left my patrol to form a 3rd patrol and  B) when someone moved up to the Leadership Corps.  When we gave up on the NSP stuff,  2 friends of mine and some of the others in my patrol switch over. Otherwise i cannot remember anyone switching from one patrol to another.

Part of that may have been patrol spirit and esprit de corps.  The two original patrol flags, Hawks and Eagles, were still in use when I joined the troop. Every patrol ribbon the patrol ever earned were still on those flags, it was a very big deal when I left and "resurrected" the Owls. After 2 months, we wanted to switch names, and were told we could do it, but we would have to start all over in regards to flag, ribbons, history  etc. Only Owl Patrol items were kept were the cooking and camping equipment.  Unfortunately when we switched to Ravens, the Owl flag and ribbons were retired and put back into storage. When our storage shed developed leaks destroying a bunch a gear, the Owl Patrol flag was part of equipment destroyed.

@@Stosh ,

Why 6 months, I haven't the foggiest idea. It was like that before I joined the troop, and continued after I left. We'd do SPL elections, then move folks to LC if needed, then allow folks to switch patrol if they wanted, then have PL elections. PLs tended to keep getting reelected until they moved up to the LC. friend of mine were PLS for 18 months straight.

Now SPL was a different story. Most wouldnot run for reelection. Usually school played a factor in that decision. Again there were two guys who alternated being SPL for 6 month periods for 2 years. One had a busy fall semester with school and would not run for election in the fall, the other was busy in the spring and would not run then.

It worked for us.

Stosh,

The NSP. stuff was before it bbecame offiicial. Basically we were part ofthe guinea pigs. Yes, it was 100% adult instttgated as thee SM was asked to try somehing new. After a year, we went bac.

As for voting in folks into the LC, very informal process. Requirements were First Class and have been a PL. After SPL election, incoming SPL would talk to LC about who wanted what positions, and who we thought should move up from the regular patrol and be given a troop level position. I guess a better choice of words would be consensus among the ccurrent LC Mmembers..Most of the time, everyone had a specified POR, i.e. QM, Instructor, etc. But there were times when someone ad been in the LC, and not given a POR. Usually someone in HS who could not make every meeting or trip due to school. But when they were at the meetng or trip, they were helping out on the troop level. I know two guys who alternated in one POR for 2 years. One couuld do the jobb in the. Fall, but not spring, and vice versa. So the one not inne the POR hhelped thheother out when they could.

Growing up, every 6 months we had the opportunity to switch patrol and elect new PLs. It was the Scout's choice. Exception to that was the following:

1) When we needed a third patrol and I was appointed PL. This was when we were trying the NSP thing before it become BSA policy. Didn't work and eventually two guys from other patrols migrated over and we became the 3rd mixed aged patrol

2)When someone got elected into the Leadership Corps. Again the LC members voted on who would join them.

Now SPL would assign Webelos who visited to a patrol to work with for the meeting and the camp out. Usually when they joined the troop they went to that patrol. I can't recall anyone wanting to join a different patrol, but my brain has been frozen, so my memory may be wrong.

_{Thanks, definite birthing pains. IMHO the troop FINALLY has someone with knowledge, skills and abilities to get the job done as SPL. Not dismissing the KSA's of the previous SPLs. But the troop has had to grow their own older scouts, and they are starting to take the reins instead of the adults doing everything.}

_{As for is he helping his Scouts. YES to the best of his ability. Is he helping his PLs? Depends upon your point of view. Despite him not working with the NSPL, the SPL is relying on the TG to help the NSPL.}

_{In all honesty I don't think the troop has any expectations or goals except monthly camping activities save January ( annual lock in month) and doing a HA trip every three years (one year to recuperate, and two years to fundraise and prepare). For 2019, they have a lot of options, including WSJ.  (an aside, does the FL Sea base still have the program where you can charter the vessel, and if you have someone with a USCG license, they are counted as crew and you get a discounted charter rate?)}

_{Now I admit do have some things I'ld like to do. #1 being able to have ALL ( emphasis) leaders, sit down, and stay out of the way of the Scouts, drinking coffee and playing card games.}

 

We have adult assigned mixed age patrols (I know, I know -- that is another topic for the future).  The new scouts are assigned to a patrol, typically with other new scouts (like 3 per patrol).  They new guys seem to like being part of a group with older kids and our older guys are really good at including the crossovers and mentoring them.

 

 

One way we did it was at the Webelos troop visit, the SPL assigned the Webelos to the dens. They learned some of the skills for the Webelos Overnighter weekend at the meeting. The patrol they were assigned to was the patrol they would camp with.  Within the patrol, the PL assigned one of the Scouts to work with the Webelos and be his buddy. It worked well, and when they Crossed Over, they usually went into the patrol with their buddy from the overnighter.

I've seen everything from the presentation kit only Eagle Knife to NESA lifetime memberships.  One of my friends had a chartered helicopter flight for him and the other Eagles in his troop as they do only 1 ECOH per year, and they make it a doozy.

In my troop, we got the presentation kit, COH, name on a plaque, and our name and year burnt onto a table decoration for future troop COHs.  I remember moving around my table decoration a few times to "reserve my spot.

One thing I received, and this was a gift from the SM, was an Eagle pendant.  I personally have given out copies of the BSA's first edition handbook.

As far as I know Venture patrols still exist as they still sell the VENTURE strip. Way we worked it in my old troop was basically a continuation of the Leadership Corps, in fact we didn't switch the name to Venture crew until after i turned an adult, circa 1993 or thereabouts, because we had a stack LC patches and finished up our supply of them before switching.

Way it worked for us was that the LC were the older Scouts who had expereince as PLs, were First Class or higher, and had troop level responsibilities. While we had designated Instructors, everyone did their share of teaching and mentoring. Plus we were the ones running the interpatrol competitions.

And you are 110% correct, you don't have older Scouts, you are stuck on a new scout program. I think that is part of the problem with my current troop, and am hoping Philmont will fix it after the group comes back.

As for  the new parent not getting it, you are so spot on. I hated interfering adults as a youth, and am doing my darnedest to not interfere now. And I am trying to get the new parents out of Cub Scout mode.

In regards to camp family nights,  Most camps I've been to as an adult have family night on Friday now, and entire troops will leave Friday night after the campfire.  Blew my mind when 1/2 my troop left Friday.