Eagledad

Yep, we’ve been talking about this statistic for a long time. The largest group of dropouts in the scouting program are first year troop scouts. And, it’s been that way since National has kept those kinds of records since the 60s. There is a cultural shock going from being hand held through the first 10 years of life by adults to spending the night in the dark woods with only youth leaders for protection from the sounds of darkness in a tent. its not an easy problem to solve. Our troop work a number years and different approaches to our program to fix it. We learned that scouts who hang around after their first summer in the troop, will likely age out in their program. We were a patrol method, mixed age program heavy on outdoors. We found scouts needed an adult nearby the first few months of their experience to learn how to trust the youth leaders. But, the youth leaders have to be the responsible one-on-one leaders of the new scouts or they likely will not develop that trust for the youth leaders. At least not in the first few months. Its is a delicate situation that requires creativity, courage and persistence from both the scouts and adults working together to get over the hurdle of getting new scouts past their first summer camp. Barry

By coincidence, there is an article this morning about schools being sued for hiding a student's trans name and not telling the student is behaving in a trans lifestyle. There is no doubt that trans folks and their parents are becoming known as victims of their environment, and they are lashing out at whoever contributed to that environment. The main issue with schools is that they are keeping the students' trans identity secret from their parents. There is no surprise; a teacher on this forum admitted this was going on in a trans discussion several years ago. I understand the compassion for these youth and their struggle with their behavior, but the BSA should not have put unit leaders in the position of making these kinds of choices. Now we're learning that councils are defying national guidelines and continuing the practice. Unit leaders are unknowingly in harm's way. The trans issue is really just one of many issues that unit leaders have to face when scouts ask them to hold secrets from their parents. Our SM was threatened with litigation for holding information about the scout's behavior from the parents. He had been warned by the more experienced leaders. about the practice. But he continued because he felt it built a trust that he could leverage to change a scout's wrong behavior. The idea is noble, but misused. By the way, I found in my SM training classes that most scout leaders agreed with the idea; after all, we are in the business of building character. However, many leaders, including our SM, learned the hard way that the trust of the parents is just as important as the trust of the scout. What many folks, teachers, scout leaders, coaches, and so forth forget is that parents have the ultimate responsibility of raising their kids. They dictate what their kids learn about life for their future. Everyone the parents entrust with responsibility for guiding their kids through life's lessons and skills is just one resource to help them develop their kids into the kinds of adults they want them to be. I used to teach in leadership training to imagine the character of a youth as a puzzle. Each piece of the puzzle is part of the team that parents use to help develop their kids' character. Each puzzle piece is a teacher, band leader, coach, piano teacher, scout leader, and other influences. But, in most cases, one piece isn't more significant than the other. So, while the Scout Master has a great title and a lot of influence in the unit to change a scout's character, the reality is the SM is only one person among a large team that parents use to help develop their kids' growth into adulthood. The parents are the team leaders, and there has to be trust between the team and the parents. This idea goes for a lot of situations that unit leaders find themselves dealing with. Trust me, scouts are very creative in making bad choices. But a trusting relationship with parents actually gives scout leaders more room, not less, to work with the scout. I can't remember how many times I told the parents of an issue, only to be followed by asking them to give us a couple of weeks to work with their scout. If that didn't work, then it was time to get the parents more involved. My teacher son uses the same approach with his students. Sorry for the long post, but a leader's trust between scouts and parents is very important for me because I have observed many leaders finding themselves in a mess, simply because they wanted a one-on-one trust with the scout for leverage to influence the scout to change. Scouting is hard. Open dialogue and trust between the scouts and parents make it a little easier. Have a great weekend. Barry

Well done. Barry

I can't tell the motive, but Inquisitivescout points out rightly the risk of being all things to all scouts in this culture. Especially in a program where camping is the arena. What I find fascinating is that both sides of the cultural spectrum believe theirs is the best approach for the growth and maturity of youth going into adulthood. Barry

What if the youth wants to be in the other gender program? Barry

What are you doing if the parents disagree with their child? Barry

Standing up for all youth is not giving in to cultural (political) ideals where adults allow, condone, or dictate the sociological development of prepubescent youth, which are counter to normal physical and biological instincts. It is a form of child abuse, so how can a council prevent abuse if it supports it? Barry

It's just prideful political temper tantrums. And, more litigation for the youth organizations as young maturing adults realize they were steered toward accepting being a trans person. Doctors and hospitals are already being sued, but eventually they will go after organizations that encourage the youths to continue a lifestyle that led them away from their biological origin. Schools are already in the crosshairs. This is the child abuse of our present culture. And, ironically, women's equality. Barry

Your idea isn't new; the BSA has made these kinds of promises since the creation of the program. I do agree that at this age, cost isn't as much of an issue as the cub program, but a results-based program is very subjective. And most of the time the adults go the easy route of Eagle for their results-based program. However, youth at this age aren't advancement-driven. I found that most Eagle-driven programs lose 70% of their scouts by age 15 because advancement gets boring. Adventure-driven programs thrive because they are fun in the outdoors, and because independence in the patrol method drives more maturity in their growth. Go look at units where scouts age out, and you will find they are more scout-run with adventure. Also, adventure-driven programs typically have a high number of Eagles because the scouts are in the program a long time and earn the Eagle requirements by simply participating. Barry

Putting on my Membership Chairman hat. Almost 95% of scouts in troops come from the Cubs. If the youth aren't recruited in Cubs, the troops will have to recruit from other sources. When National added additional requirements to the Tiger program in 2000 (increasing meetings to every week, an adult required for each scout), many units were unable to meet the new demands, and the Tiger numbers dropped significantly. That drop became obvious in 2005 when the troop membership suddenly dropped. If you don't get the Cubs, you don't get the crossovers. Barry

Are the fees the same for Cubs? Young parents have many program choices during the Tiger and Wolf years, and costs drive many of their choices. Barry

Yes, Fred is right. It depends on the adults and the program and if the program fits you. I did study some of this stuff when I was the District Membership chair. In general, programs are based from the level of passion by the adults who manage the program. That can be good and bad, but in typically the top 15% of the programs managed by the most passionate adults, and have gift for selling the program. You have to visit the unit to see if it is a good fit. Barry

Many of us have been active and have developed reputations on this forum long before this discussion. Barry

Hard to tell; there were, and still are, BSA haters on the forum who were glad to push facts and unproven statements to make the BSA look bad. Barry

Parents are the most challenging part of Scoutmastering. National should create a course to prepare for how to respond to them. It takes practice. We had a few families leave because we didn't budge on our program philosophy. One mother took her new tenderfoot son out because I wouldn't delegate him as the Patrol Leader. But we lost several scouts because of our approach to Eagle. And, the parents of the ones who stayed despite their parents' wishes would never speak to me again, even when I ran into them at the grocery store. Barry