Eagle94-A1

"Campaign hat scream State and County law enforcement in today's world, they are the only ones left using them on a regular basis. except for the military.  I would say they wear more often than any Scout or Scouter."

Do not forget park rangers. I used to wear my smokey camping, but after getting confused with a park ranger for the second time, I wear the expedition hat on public lands.

Unfortunately in today's litigious society, it is easier to cave in to a lawsuit than to fight it. One company I have friends in told me how they were hit by a multi-million dollar fine by the feds over something that was allowed at the time they did it, but now is now no longer allowed. Fed retroactively put the ban in place, and demanded their money back, plus penalties and interest. Company lawyers  said they could fight it out, and could probably win too. BUT, the entire legal process could take years. While the lawsuit was in the courts, payments would be put into escrow until the case was settled. without the government contract the company would go out of business. So they settled.

SSScout's story reminds me of  2 new DEs in my council growing up. We had 3 brand new, straight out of college DEs who were told by the SE that they needed to go through the OA Ordeal. They show up, and go through the Pre-Ordeal ceremony. When they found out what was expected of them, 2 said the heck with it and left. The third one underwent the Ordeal.  Monday morning all three were called into the SE's office. The new Arrowman was congratulated, given some OA related item from the and left. The other two were immediately fired.

If memory serves, National did make something like mainhunter's cap once upon a time. I think there is a pic of one in my old field book.  Gonna have to pry it from middle son's hands.

OK found a place for replacement chin straps https://www.strattonhats.com/products/21-1-Piece-Leather-Strap

Ebay may help for hat bands. here is one http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/232258590488?vectorid=229466&item=232258590488&rmvSB=true

Another option would be to make your own replacement band.

http://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbies/Leather-Crafting/Kits/Large-Leather-Dog-Collar-Kit/p/142068

I don't know why they quit, but I am going to take a guess. Folks were buying the replacement parts and putting them on USGI surplus hats. While I do not have the BSA hatbands, I do have the BSA chinstraps on my two smokeys. And before anyone cries "foul," both smokeys were issued to me by my council. One issued upon completing Brownsea 22, the second upon staffing  JLTC.

How does one get black balled from district. Please PM me with instructions so I can get off their mailing list.

Aggravate the pros enough, and you will. I've been blackballed from council level because I pointed out problems and inconsistencies.

But you need to be careful. One volunteer ticked off the powers that be so badly, he had his membership revoked.  That really ticked off the volunteers in my district. When those folks left, the volunteers threw a party.

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself. Maybe at World Jambo it might be a question kids get, but generally, not likely. Besides, look at the co-ed thread discussion and you'll see plenty of opposition to doing anything in the BSA simply because it's done in other countries. 

 

In fact, a more likely question from a non-US scout would be, "Where are the girls?" 

My first encounter with a British female Scout was in the US hiking with my troop as a youth. We thought she was a Girl Scout ( Girl Guide in the UK) because the only uniform item on was a neckerchief. Great conversation. I still got that neckerchief I traded my belt and all the Skill Awards for.

Hardest part of moving from a Cub Scout Leader to a Boy Scout adult is to "unlearn what you have learned." You have just spent the last 4.5 years doing training so that you can run Scouting programs, and now you are told to sit back, drink your coffee/tea/hot cocoa, and tell the boys "Have you asked your patrol leader" It's hard to do, even if you know better.

When my oldest crossed over, I spent a year as a MC. One reason was that I was also a DL still. Another reason was that I needed to be deprogrammed out of Cub Scout leader mode. I remembered the worst part of getting new Scouts in the troop, their interfering parents, and promised to be like that. Being a MC gave a a chance to deprogram, learn the troop culture, and stay out of my son's way.

I collect neckers. I have some from all over the USA, as well as the UK and Canada. Last meeting as a TCDL, I was asked to come up with something about neckerchiefs and why they are used in Scouting.  I had a few on hand to demonstrate the various uses.  One of the other leaders commented that I need to wear the collection instead of the same one over and over. Great conversation starters. Had lots of tales regarding them.

My thoughts.

#1 I've seen adults game the process. Worse case was the "Eagle" whose mom, dad, and grandpa so gamed the system that he got it on appeal from national. Him winning the appeal caused the entire district advancement committee to resign in protest.

#2 Those parents pushing Eagle tend to not view anything else in Scouting as important. I had an 1:30+ long phone conversation with one mom about getting her son registered for the OA Ordeal that was coming up. After overcoming every single objection she had about the OA, she finally says,  "He can't be distracted with anything else. He needs to earn his Eagle."

On a personal note, I had a conversation with my aunt about my cousin who earned Eagle at 13 and quit, and her grandson. My cousin was pushed and pushed to get Eagle by my uncle and aunt. She was amazed at all the things they were doing, i.e. Philmont, Jamboree, and joining the OA. She point blank told me she wish the OA was around when my cousin was in Scouts. When I told her that OA  was around since 1948 locally, she told me I was mistaken. When I told her the lodge's history, she said "it wasn't a big deal like it is today."

We may be getting a few of these parents in the next few weeks.

#3 if you have an active program, the Eagles will stay, even if the parents are no longer interested in Scouting. They may have challenges, i.e. school, extracuriculars, girls, jobs, etc, but they will contribute to the troop.

#4 Sea Scouts, OA, and Venturing are great opportunities to continue folks involvement in Scouting. As an 18 YO Eagle, I looked first to Sea Scouts, then to the OA for challenges I was no longer getting from the troop. Yes I remained with the troop, and I worked my butt off. BUT I got new challenges from these two organizations, and have seen many young Eagles do the same.

#5

Earned Eagle at 14.5 yrs of age.   Stayed with scouting till I turned 18 and moved away.

 

I stuck around because my scoutmasters treated me like an adult, and expected adult-level accomplishments (as SPL and then JASM).   I was expected to attend and encouraged to contribute in each district roundtable, adult scouter training, monthly troop committee meetings, etc.

My issue with young Eagles is the same I have with ANY Eagle: they cannot model the knowledge, skills, abilities and expectations that are expected from an Eagle.  We are not perfect, not by a long shot. But Eagles have a heavy burden exemplifying Scouting's ideals.

EDITED: Put the quote in because it shows if you give them high expectations, they will live up to them and be active.

Wouldn't it be nice if Scouting Heritage MB had a requirement to explain the why of wearing a neckerchief and wear a one for an activity or period of time? Does the merit badge pamphlet mention the neckerchief?

Agree, and no it does last I checked.

But the pamphlet also doesn't even mention "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. Waite Phillips did a great thing giving Philmont to us. But not everyone goes there. Whereas every Scout and adult from 1929 until 1972, and then again from 1979 to 1989 had been affected by "Green Bar Bill" by reading his books, Boys' Life articles, and going through training he put together. IMHO Bill did a lot more than Phillips ever did.

I've seen a bunch of young Eagles over the years. Most quit Scouting shortly after getting Eagle. Some were pressured by parents to get Eagle, and once that was achieved they had no incentive to stay. Some get bored and drop. I've seen a few move on to Explorers/Venturing. And I know one young Eagle, who moved to Hawaii and join Sea Scouts.

The Young eagles that remain have at least one thing going for them: either the OA or a very active, boy-led troop. Several young Eagles remained solely because of the OA. For whatever reason the troop was no longer providing the challenges they wanted, and the OA did. Active troops will develop programs that interest all ages. When the boys have a feeling of ownership and develop activities they want to do, they stay.

Another thing that keeps young Eagles, as well as those of us who could have been young Eagles instead cardiac Eagles ) was the opportunities for HA and other advanced opportunities. I know I did a HA program at a local camp, Brownsea 22 ( NYLT today), jamboree, and a Canadian canoeing expedition. In my case, I was busting butt working fundraisers and having too much fun to focus on Eagle until near the end. Also I had a case of the fumes

Latin Scout,

But if you look at the ones whole troops wear, there are the limits I mentioned. BSA use to make a whole lot more of the Boy Scout neckers. The troop is one of the older troops in the council with a long history, and a very specific color scheme. That color scheme is no longer made by BSA. PLC decided to go with a similar color scheme. Guess what, national quit making that one too. We found out when we went to order the 2nd necker for some new Scouts, and was told they are no longer made. SM made a decision on the spot for the 3rd necker. When we got another group of new Scouts, we attempted to order  the 3rd necker from the local council, only to be told they are no longer made.  Some of the Scouts donated their neckers for the ceremony. That was when we went the custom route, and doing it ourselves instead of relying on national. Instead of Scouts wearing 3 different neckers, or none at all, we are making our own.

But looking online I just noticed the red with white imprint, the 3rd neckerchief, can still be ordered from national supply. All I can think is that the local council shop didn't want to be stuck with inventory that will be discontinued soon and they will be stuck with. 

When my pack had some trouble, I focused on my den. I knew if I could put up with the situation for about 20 months, new leadership would take over and things would probably improve. It was frustrating, but by focusing on my den I provided my Cubs the best possible program I could. With the exception on 1 pack meeting that had no awards to give out, and a second pack meeting cancelled at the last minute, the Cub were not affected. The new leadership was a vast improvement.

If you see the leadership leaving, you may want to tough it out. But if you do not see the leadership leaving, it may be time to move on.

But be prepared for a lot of animosity, gossip, and overall negativity between you and the leadership if you do leave. My friend who was a DL with my pack was asked to restart his church's pack. How can you say no to your pastor? He left the pack quietly informing only the CM.  No one else realized he restarted a pack until Round Up season. That's when the animosity started. In addition to "stealing new Cubs" at Round Ups, over a 6 month period 1/2 of my pack transferred to the restarted pack.

Over time, the pack's leadership took over the troop. By the time my son was a Webelos, he knew what Boy Scouts was suppose to be like. When he camped with them, he saw so many problems, he made the comment "That isn't Boy Scouts." He made the decision not to join that troop.  Over an 11 month period, those Boy Scouts that were in his den either quit Scouting altogether, or transferred to my son's troop. Except for 1, and he quit once his brother got Eagle and quit Scouts. And the animosity continues to this day.

Regarding your question about going to pack meetings in one town and having den meetings in another, yes it is permissible. BUT as David CO stated, you also made a commitment to the CO, and you should not actively recruit from your den. If my experiences are the norm, the Scouts will follow you.

And be prepared for the hatred that will ensue. Sorry for the negativity, but better to be prepared fro the worst, and pray for the best.

Where did you hear this? Source? I have been in communication with people from my local scout shop, scoutstuff.org, national supply, even scoutingmagazine.org; and so far nobody has heard anything about this. I would be extremely surprised to learn that the BSA isn't producing neckerchiefs as part of their uniform wear anymore. Are they not making socks, or hats, or Scout shirts either? This sounds mighty suspect if you ask me.

Local council shop. 3 of the neckers the troop used have been discontinued. If you go to scoutstuff.org and look up neckerchief, you will onlt find the three neckerchiefs in addition to the specialty and Cub Scout ones.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/screen-printed-bsa-emblem-neckerchiefs.html#.WLZQT_LdUo0     and only 3 of the styles remain ( I want to say about 30 printed ones when I use to work in supply in the 90s and 2000s)

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa-neckerchief-with-universal-emblem-embroidery.html#.WLZQC_LdUo0 And we were told once they were gone, they were gone.

Dare I ask, UC anywhere around to help out? To be even more bold, is the DE anywhere to be seen?

Actually the UCs, and a few other district folks, have either died ( UC originally assigned to them), or have become so frustrated they say the heck with it and ask to work with units that want their help. (3 UCs). Long story short, this is the SM who thinks he know it all and will not take any advice or help form anyone.

As for the DEs, my council is so short staffed, that the DEs working my district have barely kept their heads above water. It sucks not having your own DE.

Yeah, there is no way the BSA will be phasing out neckerchiefs any time soon, and thank goodness! The neckerchief is the most recognizable part of the Scouts uniform, not to mention the only really useful part of it!

Actually National supply has quit making them. They are now only selling what is left in their inventory.  In the 3 years I've been in my troop, We have gone through  3 different colored neckers from national. We are are now on #4, which is a custom necker described above.

And yes, in many places, including now in the US, Scouts will sometimes wear only a necker as their identifying scout item.

At this time all I can do is hope and get the ASM to complete his training. Heck, if I can get any of the other leaders trained, I'd be happy. But that i has been written on in a different thread

I admit I'm a traditionalist, so I am for the necker. My troop has opted to go the custom route though. We are using olive drab USGI triangle bandages with a custom patch. So they are quite useful.

I personally think BSA made a mistake when they decided to make the Boy Scout neckers Cub Scout sized and an option. We are the only country in the world where the necker is an option. Heck in some countries, it is the only uniform Scouts have!

Good news: charter is turned in. 

Regarding the leadership, I am hoping and praying they get a new SM within the year. SM's son is 17 and Life. There is some speculation that once son gets Eagle, they are gone. The attitude from the son is that he is only in Scouting because dad wants him to get Eagle, otherwise he could care less. The old CM of my pack is now an ASM, so a lot fo fokls hopes he takes over.

If the SM, CC, and COR are all missing in action, it is time to go have a sit down with the IH.

Unfortunately the IH is also MIA. Long story short, they view the pack and troop as groups that use their facilities, not as part of their ministry. The IH has kicked out the Scouts from activities, even an Eagle Court of Honor that was scheduled with the church and planned 4 months in advance with a week's notice. And a new building that they promoted in fundraising for it as being for the Scouts has actually been used a handful of times since they completed it 6 years ago. I know the pack has used it 3 times. 

Great job!

One of the things my old ceremony team did as a youth was have the advisor go to the Cub Scout roundtable, and schedule BnG banquets 3 or 4 months out. It was first come first serve. By the time I aged out and was advisor, we were working 2 districts.

#1 WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

#2 I was about to ask if you are in my neck of the woods, but we have 3 troops within 2 miles of each other.

The troop your pack is associated with is very much like the the troop associated with my pack. Your son really needs to make that decision. I would visit as many troops as possible, and camp with as many as possible too.

In my situation, oldest son camped with my pack's troop, was not happy with how they were since it did not live up to how I described Scouting, not my old William Hillcourt handbooks he read. The troop camping next to us did impress him and he visited it and liked it. It was a 20 minute drive to meetings, but he was willing. Unfortunately that troop folded, and the search continued. He did find a troop, and is enjoying himself. Trop has had some ups and downs, but is going well.

And he made the decision.

Finding troop would not be a matter for the Scout. Most folks around here have the same mentality: we want a Scout to find a troop that fits his needs, and don't care where he goes as long as he stays in the program. Whether it's another troop, a crew ( when we have one), or even an Explorer post. Especially since there are 2 other troops within 3 miles of the "lapsed" troop.