BrentAllen

I'm not putting any money on it, but my prediction is we will see Huckabee vs. Obama in the main event, with Huckabee taking the prize. Democrats never seem to remember that governors beat senators in presidential elections. I must admit I enjoyed seeing Hillary lose - much more than I thought I would. Maybe this is because I'm so ambivalent about the rest of the field, on both sides. It must be killing her to lose to a novice like Obama, and a lightweight like Edwards. Lisa - here in Georgia, we get to vote in whichever primary we choose. I voted in a couple of Democrat primaries, in order to vote against Cynthia McKinney. We finally got rid of her, and I hear she moved to California and is trying to run for Prez. as the Green Party nominee. Talk about delusional...

Merry Christmas everyone! From our family to yours. http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1396569665

"Is it not to give your bread to those in need,..." Key word being NEED. As funscout pointed out, the free lunch program is a joke. No income verification, just say you are below the income level and your kid eats for free. This has become such an entitlement that if you don't take advantage of it, you are a sucker! I'm not so cruel hearted to do away with the program. I just say modify it so the free lunch is a baloney sandwich and a glass of milk, every day. The free lunch program would drop by about 75% overnight. Once you've shaken out the cheats, go back and give the really needy kids the regular meals. Or, start conducting income verifications to at least cut out the semi-honest cheats.

Yeah, only in Beavah's imaginary world would he rather see the terrorist defendants plead not guilty, go to court, cost the taxpayers millions of dollars, and possibly get off on a technicality than see them plead guilty and to to prison. Yeah, that's the ticket! I wish you were running for Prez, so I could vote for you! Who's Krugman?? Give me a break...

Beavah, I'm not sure I agree with either your revisionist history, or view of reality. Lindh got 20 years. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/10/04/lindh.statement/ I don't think you bungle a case and send the defendant to the big house for 20. As for the others, let me give you a little help. http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/07/virginia.jihad/ http://www.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel03/battle112403.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2004/February/04_crm_079.htm http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87264,00.html http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=22979 http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/14/Ujaama.plea/ Do you still claim the DOJ has not made a single prosecution in over 8 years?? Care to revise your remarks?

Speaking of accountablility, you posted the administration hadn't prosecuted a single terrorist, in 8 years! Yet I gave you a list of several. Did your friends on the ground tell you about the zero prosecutions as well? Maybe they are spending too much time listening to the MSM and Kruger. Sending too few troops? We wiped out Saddam's Army in the blink of an eye! The MSM was hoping we would get bogged down by that unusual sand storm, but to their dismay, we pushed through and rolled right on in to Baghdad. One of the quickest victories in the history of modern warfare.

"Going to church every Sunday only serves to fill the church's coffers and rather than listen to some inane sermon, I'd rather be out putting Christ's teachings into practice." Wow, I guess I'm glad to see GW isn't just cynical about WB! I used to be a little cynical about church myself. That all changed when we started attending our current church. Maybe I'm just a really bad sinner, but I find myself wanting to attend not only the Sunday morning contemporary service (great music along with a great message), but also the Wednesday night Bible Study and the Men's Huddle on Friday mornings (at 6:15 am - now, these are people who REALLY want to go to church!) Out of those groups, only one takes any type of offering. The church needs money to turn on the lights and perform missionary work, and I feel the need to tithe, so we find a way to make things work.

Looks like someone has been spending too much time watching the MSM/Drive-by news. Have you been reading Slate, or Paul Krugman? Here is a list of terrorists prosecuted since 9/11: Richard Reid, John Walker Lindh, Yahya Goba, Shafal Mosed, Yasein Taher, Taysal Galab, Mukhtar al-Bakri, Sahim Alwan, Jeffrey Battle, Patrice Ford, Ahmed Bilal, Muhammad Bilal, October Lewis, Mike Hawash, Masoud Ahmad Khan, Seifullah Chapman, Yong Ki Kwon, Donald Surratt, Hammad Abdur-Raheem, James Ujaama, Iyman Faris. I don't know about you, but I'm much more interested in the number of terrorists we have killed since 9/11, and that number is big. And the final number I'm interested in - how many terrorists attacks have we suffered since 9/11? Paul Krugman would probably have a stroke before could answer that question truthfully. Well, at least you Bush-haters are entertaining!

pack, Surely, you are educated enough to see through those simple numbers on that page. (I know, and don't call you Shirley). We could go back to the Carter years with double digit unemployment, inflation and interest rates, right? What that simple graph doesn't show is tax revenues took off when Reagan cut taxes, but guess who was in charge of the budget and spending? The Democratic Congress - who actually sets and votes on the budget, not the president. The graph would appear to show Clinton getting credit for turning the tide on the debt, but remember what happened in 1994, when the the line changed from red to blue? That's right, the Republican Revolution. Newt and company took over the Congress, and things changed. Now, look at when the line changed color again - when the Democrats took the Congress back. So, yes, it is a pretty graph, but it is short on substance - unless you are a Democrat who likes living in a fictional world where Republicans are evil. I have relatives in Norway, with universal health care. They will quickly tell you - don't get hurt and don't get sick!

I think the term communist is a little strong. Socialist is more like it. And I would agree with him about the Republicans. No, I haven't changed my spots - I'm still a conservative Republican; I'm just not real happy with any of the choices. Where are the Ronald Reagans and Theodore Roosevelts when you need them?

I went through this process back in March. We ended up forming a new Troop in September, which gives an indication of how happy we were with the Troop my son chose. First, you need to ask yourself what you want out of Scouting for your son. Write these thoughts down, and take them with you when you visit the Troops. Pull them out and review them during your visit, and ask yourself if you think the Troop will be able to deliver what you want. How active is your son? Does he attend all Den and Pack meetings? Ask how many boys the Troop has on the roster, and then count how many are at the meeting. Ask how many attended the last campout, and be sure to check the number on the campout you visit. Do they keep track of attendance? If so, ask to see it. What is the attendance percentage of the boys in the Troop? Do they have enough attending campouts for the patrols to act as patrols, or do they have to constantly form ad hoc patrols to function? My impression is if the boys are enjoying the Troop experience, attendance will be high. If it isn't, what is the reason? What are the expectations of the Troop regarding attendance, uniforming and behaviour? What are your expectations? Do they match up? Are the boys in uniform? Do they use bad language when the adults aren't around? How active are the older boys? Do they run the Troop, or are they just on the rolls, waiting to earn their Eagle? Do they hold the top leadership positions? Do they go to Green Bar training? Do they go on campouts? How many boys are in OA? Are they active in OA, or do they just wear the flap? On the adult side, is there a method to the madness, or are the meetings just play dates? Is there a program being delivered, or is the Troop just a social camping club? The adults should understand and be able to discuss the Aims and Methods and explain how they are being implemented off the boys' radars. Do the leaders know what the Mission of the BSA is? Can they tell you without having to look it up? They don't have to quote it, but should be able to put it in their own words. This shouldn't be presented as a written test or Jeopardy quiz, but if the adult leaders can't articulate how the Mission and Aims & Methods are addressed by the Troop's program, then you have to wonder if they are. Do they adult leaders have a vision for the Troop, and does it match up with the BSA Mission? My final piece of advice to you is pick up a SM Handbook and read it carefully. Attend SM training as soon as you can, so you know what a Troop should look and act like. Good luck to you and your son with your decision.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

Lisa's comments about freshman college students reminds me of a political joke I have tucked away somewhere. This is just a joke, out of Readers Digest, I think. A political science professor asks his freshman students to raise their hands if they are Republicans. About half the class does. He asks a blond co-ed why she considers herself a Republican. "Probably because my parents are Republicans" she answers. "Well, if your parents were morons, what would that make you?" the professor jabbed at her. "Then I guess I would be a Democrat" she replied with a smile.

My son is in 6th grade, and I don't think he has ever been allowed to use a calculator, in any grade level. Not only must he be able to get the correct answer, he has to show how he arrived at the answer.

"When I was in 3rd grade (1963), our teacher taught us French, because she was from Canada and thought being bilingual was important. I still remember some of it. That would never happen today...no time to be creative in the classroom, because we have to pass the SOLs so that the administrators get their raise." The kids at our public elementary school start taking German in Kindergarten and continue through 5th grade. Immersion. My wife teaches 3rd Grade there, and she says it is pretty amazing to hear those German teachers come in and never speak a word of English. Kids today are learning things much earlier than when I did. We learned multiplication in the 4th grade; my daughter is learning it in 3rd. Whether it is learning cursive, math or science, the kids appear to be learning it a year ahead of when I did. Add in what they are learning about computers, and it is pretty amazing.

pack, I know you have been waiting patiently for me. :-) I don't know much about Mormonism, except that they are big on geneology and are very good at record-keeping. I've never needed to know whether they are considered Christian or not, and really don't feel the need to know now. I will base my decision on voting on Romney on his record as an elected official, not on his religion. Someone asked about the location of the tablets of the 10 Commandments. They are located in the Ark of the Covenant, stored in a secret government warehouse. GW Bush knows where it is and visits it often, but Clinton was afraid to go near it. ;^) Me personally, I attend a Baptist church, but you won't hear the word "Baptist" there very often. Our pastor is of the opinion that the church membership should look like heaven, which he thinks will be a pretty broad spectrum of humanity. Our church reflects that thinking; when you look at the membership on Sunday mornings, it is a pretty diverse group, covering nearly all ages, races, sexes and nationalities. We even had a prayer offered in Czech last Sunday. This is much different from the all-white Baptist churches I grew up in. Our beliefs and the message haven't changed - we haven't watered down our beliefs to draw in more people - but the attitude and approach of the members has. I think this group is much more welcoming and friendly. Of course, we live in much more diverse neighborhoods than we did 30 years ago, so my comparison may not be fair. pack - a while back, you said you had a hard time understanding the concept of sin. Our pastor defines sin as any act that hurts Jesus's heart. Does that help?

I flipped around through their calendar, and with the exception of Summer Camp, this looks more like a Pack than a Troop. There are hardly any weekend campouts. There are a few day hikes and other events, but several fundraisers. Going back to July, 2005: Camping trips: Oct. 05 Nov. 05 Dec. 05 July 06 Summer Camp Sept. 06 Jan. 07 Mar. 07 Williamsburg trip for week? July 07 Summer Camp Oct. 07 Family Camping Fundraisers: Carwash Feb. 06 Coca-Cola Sale Aug. 06 Carwash Aug. 06 Carwash Sept. 06 Yardsale Mar. 07 Check the number of fundraisers in 06 compared to the number of campouts. Strange. Funny, their web page states they go on campouts each month: "Troop 700 believes the heart and soul of Scouting is found in the outdoors, so we get out as often as we can, in all types of weather. We schedule weekend campouts each month. We camp at State and National Parks, Scout camps and on private land." It looks like it would be very hard for a Scout in that Troop to make the 15 nights camping required for OA.

My area is fairly affluent, with most students going on to college. Most of the state has a pretty high drop out rate. Most counties now have Adult Learning Centers, teaching GED courses and ESOL. As for HALO, that is just poor parenting. My son would play it 24/7 if he could, but he is only allowed to play X-Box or other electronic games on weekends (after homework is completed), and only when he maintains straight A's. It is a privilege he has to earn. He has had all A's except for one B in Science (88.6 avg) for most of this semester, but he finally pulled it up a 90.96. He is flirting with a B in German, but has managed to stay on the up side of that fine line. If I didn't make him earn the electronics, I am sure he would have a mid-level B in both Science and German, instead of A's. So, whereas other parents curse X-Box and Gameboy, I love them! They are a great carrot for my son! Our school system uses SmartWeb, so I can see my son's grades from each day before he gets home. I can see every grade he has, as well as the class average. Pretty cool system, which should keep parents from getting any surprises at the end of a semester. Of course, the parents have to be interested and involved in their kid's lives and work to take advantage of it...

Romney was quoting one of our Founding Fathers. JFK was not.

Why not do both? If your Troop is large enough, and the group is split on the idea, offer both activities.

The boys are smart enough to know when the requirements have or haven't been met. This summer, our new Scouts took Swimming Merit Badge at camp. The instructors did a pretty good job, excellent in some cases, but I never saw them learn or demonstrate survival floating for 5 minutes. When we got back home, I pulled the new Scouts together and asked them about it - they said no, they hadn't done that requirement. I told them it was signed off at camp, so according to the BSA, they had earned the badge. Two days later, my son and several of the Scouts informed me they had gone to the pool, worked on the technique and then performed the 5 minute float. THEY wanted to know they had earned the badge, that it wasn't just given to them. For a different take on SM conferences, read about Eagle Scout George Coker, a former SM, in Legacy of Honor, pg. 72-73. "The boys teach; the SM tests. Before a Scout can advance to the next rank, he undergoes a Scoutmaster's conference. The conference becomes both a test and a counseling session. The SM ensures the young man has learned the requisite skills, and then he talks with the Scout about his hopes, goals and concerns. With relish, George recalled his Scoutmaster conference 'I had a reputation as a SM that you didn't get through my SM conferences easily,' he recalled with a laugh. 'I grilled the kids, and you did not get through until you knew it. Sometimes, they'd get bent out of shape, but it was clear-cut: There was no mischief; I wasn't going to ask you a single thing that wasn't right in the requirements.' Coker also discovered that many Scouts approached his conference like school: They learned the material for a single test, then promptly forgot all they had learned. That strategy failed in Troop 62. 'For Tenderfoot, that's fine, that's all I ask you,' he said. 'You make Second Class, it's Second Class plus anything left over from Tenderfoot, and for First Class, it's everything under First Aid merit badge, everything from Pioneering, everything from ropes and knots, everything in Safety, everything in the water sports that are required. If you don't know one of them, the conference is over. This was absolutely crystal clear to the kids, and they learned it. 'A strange thing happened,' he continued with mock surprise. 'The boys accepted those standards! They're not arguing about trying to change the standards or saying 'Isn't that good enough?' They know the standards, and they strive to meet those standards." George Coker spent 2,382 brutal days as a POW in Vietnam. He credits his Scouting experience with helping him survive that ordeal and return home.

We haven't done it, but hope to do so next summer. At Woodruff, your Troop paddles across the lake at dusk. They stay in tents already set up, but no other equipment is set up at the remote site. This past summer, we were sitting at the amphitheater for the flag retirement ceremony, and we could hear the troop on the overnighter from across the lake. They were out on a night hike, singing "We are the Boy Scouts" (Remember the Titans song) with a lot of spirit, and it echoed across the lake. Being that we were in a troop at that time that never sang a single song, hearing that other troop was surreal, almost magical. A great memory from last summer.

Interesting numbers. Of the 124, only 2 (two) have been from the United States, so I find it hard to believe this would be the cause for the lack of good news being reported here in the states. No, the MSM knows that good news from Iraq is bad for Democrats and good for Republicans.

Our relationship with our CO is great, couldn't be better. The church (Dunwoody Baptist) used to sponsor a troop, from 1973 to 1997. We (DE and myself) approached the pastor and found that he and the church really wanted to sponsor a troop again. After signing the paperwork, the pastor asked how much money we needed to get started - $500? When I didn't answer quick enough, he raised it to $750. He then insisted the church pay for the new Troop flag ($200), and they are fixing up the old equipment trailer for us. They even let us set up and sell popcorn at one of the Wednesday night suppers (they don't normally allow selling anything at the supper), and the pastor made a big pitch for us. On our side, we set up a table at the Fall Festival and had a "rescue rope throw" with candy given out to the kids who hit the (big) target. It was a great way to get rid of extra Halloween candy, and it was very popular with the younger kids. We will observe Scout Sunday there, and maybe do a breakfast. I received my Red Cross Trainer card recently, so we may set up a CPR/AED class for the membership. It probably helps that the SM (me), CC and Advancement Chair all attend the church.

I guess we are back to the level where it all depends on what the definition of "is" is. It seems to me that if the BSA meant to say what you interpret, they would have added language to make that distinction. It would be very easy to say: "Tenure used to earn one key or award cannot be used to earn another key or award IN THE SAME PROGRAM AREA, unless otherwise noted in the award requirements." Lug, Pick up a copy at your Scout Shop. Purple cover. This topic isn't new. Search the forum and you will find this question has been answered before.

Yes, FScouter, on page 25 of the Leadership Training Committee Guide, in the chapter titled "Leadership Training Recognition" under "How Recognition Works." "Tenure used to earn one key or award cannot be used to earn another key or award, unless otherwise noted in the award requirements." Note this chapter covers all the training award knots, not just one program area. The language applies to all the training knot awards.