BrentAllen

I think you are missing an important part of the wording - ALL teams will GO THRU the stages, though they may not start in the same way. The descriptor of a team at each stage may differ, but the important lesson is the process they go through.

"What kind of higher power could be seriously believed to require such nonsense." Ever read the Old Testament? Please show me where he is looking for deeper meaning. I see he has turned his back on religion and God. He is projecting God in his image, instead of seeking to understand God. This is what you get when religion is taken out of the program, and from what we've read here in the past, there are plenty of Troops that have done just that. I'll repeat: "There is no religious SIDE to the Movement. The WHOLE of it is based on religion, that is, on the realization and service of God." Baden-Powell "No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys His laws. So every Scout should have religion." Baden-Powell

And the Eagle award falls another notch... How does one reconcile "duty to God" and "A Scout is Reverent" with "'I find it hard to believe in God, because a good God would not invent confusing services where all you do is sit, stand or kneel. So I stopped going to church. My parents don't either'?" How does that Scout stand there at meetings and give the Scout Oath and Law when this is how he truly feels? The more I look around and see how the Eagle is "earned" the more disappointed I get. Parts of the program that are "inconvenient" are ignored so the Scout can earn this prestigious award, but then, how prestigious is it, in the end? Not very.

Yes, NWScouter, we could learn a lot from them - if you like socialism. Their whole economy and standard of living changed dramatically when they discovered and started producing oil. Don't take me wrong - I think Norway is a very nice country and does have a lot going for it. You won't find very many overweight Norwegians. They tend to live a very long time. They are very clean - you won't find any litter around. And they have a twisted sense of humor. These are the captions on t-shirts I picked up in Oslo from some street vendors: We kill whales for fun. Only 89,995 to go! (with cartoon of harpooned whale) A Map of Scandinavia Without Sweden (with the map showing just Norway and Finland) If we had dolphins, we'd kill them, too! (with a cartoon of a dolphin jumping out of the water, harpooned with the Norwegian flag on the end of the harpoon) Now that I think about it, maybe the Peace Prize was given with that same twisted sense of humor.

So, what do you have to say about the previous winners who are just as shocked and surprised? Are they a bunch of cry babies, too? "... Lech Walesa, the dissident turned Polish President, who won the Peace Prize in 1983, spoke for many, declaring: So soon? Too early. He has no contribution so far. ... Bobby Muller, who won the Nobel Prize as co-founder of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines, told The Times: "I don't have the highest regard for the thinking or process of the Nobel committee. Maybe Norway should give it to Sweden so they can more properly handle the Peace Prize along with all the other Nobel prizes." scoutldr - my wife, half-Norwegian, is very disappointed in her countrymen. I'll join you, in boycotting Aquavit

Well, there is the Eagle Promise, which hopefully means something. I must admit my impression of Eagles has been diminished somewhat based on what I have read on these pages and seen firsthand. Eagle Promise I reaffirm my allegiance To the three promises of the Scout Oath. I thoughtfully recognize And take upon myself The obligations and responsibilities Of an Eagle Scout. On my honor I will do my best To make my training and example, My rank and my influence Count strongly for better Scouting And for better citizenship In my troop, In my community, And in my contacts with other people. To this I pledge my sacred honor.

Obama not attend, and not let the world gaze upon his excellency? No chance he misses that. U.S. President Barack Obama will come to Oslo to collect the Nobel Peace Prize, Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said on Friday after speaking with Obama. The prize is handed out on Dec. 10, the anniversary of the 1896 death of the award's founder Alfred Nobel. "Obama said he looked forward to coming to Oslo to receive the prize," a statement from Stoltenberg's office said after the prime minister phoned Obama to congratulate him.

If I'm in your situation, I have a very friendly discussion with the Scout at the very next Troop meeting. I would be up front with him and let him know I had heard thru the grapevine that he might consider himself an atheist. Find out what he really feels and thinks. If he truly considers himself an atheist and understands the meaning of the word, we stop his work on Eagle. If he isn't sure, we put the brakes on Eagle and have some additional conversations, probably including others, about duty to God, being reverent, etc. We get this issue resolved before it ever gets to an EBOR. "There is no religious SIDE to the Movement. The WHOLE of it is based on religion, that is, on the realization and service of God." Baden-Powell

This is too funny! Well, the prize hasn't been anything other than a political award since they gave it to Carter, and then to Gore. They need to change the name of it to "The Liberal Fluff Prize." Strikes me as similar to a 12-year old Eagle Scout. Gee, what are they going to give him next? Are they already drawing up designs to put him on Mt. Rushmore?? I guess in the committee's twisted minds, maybe Obama taking the US down as a Superpower is making peace in the world. "EMBARRASSING JOKE" Issam al-Khazraji, a day laborer in Baghdad, said: "He doesn't deserve this prize. All these problems -- Iraq, Afghanistan -- have not been solved...The man of 'change' hasn't changed anything yet." How is a day laborer in Baghdad smarter than the entire Nobel committee?

George Will disliked the Obamas' speeches even more than I did. "In the Niagara of words spoken and written about the Obamas' trip to Copenhagen, too few have been devoted to the words they spoke there. Their separate speeches to the International Olympic Committee were so dreadful, and in such a characteristic way, that they might be symptomatic of something that has serious implications for American governance. Both Obamas gave heartfelt speeches about . . . themselves. Although the working of the committee's mind is murky, it could reasonably have rejected Chicago's bid for the 2016 Games on aesthetic grounds unless narcissism has suddenly become an Olympic sport. In the 41 sentences of her remarks, Michelle Obama used some form of the personal pronouns "I" or "me" 44 times. Her husband was, comparatively, a shrinking violet, using those pronouns only 26 times in 48 sentences. Still, 70 times in 89 sentences conveyed the message that somehow their fascinating selves were what made, or should have made, Chicago's case compelling." Ouch! http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will100609.php3

I haven't seen themes before, but I just wanted to state that I think patrol identity is a huge part of patrol spirit and the patrol method. Our guys have been a little slack in getting patrol patches for their new members, and I rarely see patrol flags. We just started a new Honor Patrol competition Tuesday, and if a patrol didn't have 100% patrol emblems on uniforms, they lost 10 points. If they didn't have their patrol flag at opening formation, they lost 10 points. I had been mentioning this at PLC meetings for the past two months, so it wasn't a complete surprise. We'll see what they look like next week. :-)

I let the PLC handle as much of the process as they could, which was 90%. They did have some tough calls to make on where to place a few boys, and we discussed the options and their possible outcomes. I thought the PLC did a very good job of trying to give every boy their first choice. Some of the PLs all wanted the same boys, and they were very interested to see which patrol they selected. The process was very fair to all involved. From my perspective, I had two goals: 1. Let the new Scouts have a voice in their patrol selection. 2. Each patrol be equal in size. (We had 25 Scouts, so we needed 3 patrols of 8 plus the SPL) As far as timing, I can't remember it exactly, but as soon as we had enough committments that we needed a third patrol, we started talking about it. This was probably very late February. The three boys that started the new patrol came up with a temporary name. For those first two months, Group A of new Scouts was with the Jackalopes for 3 meetings and the campout. Then we rotated and Group B was with the Jackalopes and A moved to the Llamas, and so on. Ideally we would have had 3 months so each Group could camp with a different patrol. In the end, the boys had plenty of time to observe all the patrols and make an informed decision. Once permanent patrols were formed, all the members of the new patrol came up with their own name, the Mammoth Patrol.

You are welcome to adopt Green Bar Bill's philosophy on membership in your Troop. We have. "The real price of membership in this Troop will be unfailing regular attendance at its meetings and outings, and steady progress in all the things that make a Scout "Prepared." If we put our own time into the activities of this Troop, we shall expect you to do your part with equal faithfulness." We do not have 100% attendance, but we have very good attendance. When boys miss events, it is because of other activity conflicts - sports, band, etc. which is fine. If you adopt this standard, the SM can discuss it with the Scout in question and the Scout can decide if he wants to get with the program and be in your Troop

Buffalo, We were in that same boat last Feb./March, and this is how we handled it (after MUCH head-scratching and discussion with my mentors): First, I'm not fond of NSP's so we didn't go that route. Once we knew the numbers (and we didn't know those for sure until the cross-over), we knew we would need one new patrol. At a Troop meeting, I told the boys our predicament and said I didn't like splitting up patrols, but I needed some volunteers to start the new patrol. Three boys volunteered, and were the foundation for the new patrol. When the new Scouts arrived, we asked them to pair up. Then we divided the pairs into 3 groups. For the months of March and April, these three groups - A, B, C - spent a couple of weeks with each of the three patrols, the goal being for the new boys to get to know all the other Scouts. Then, at the first of May, the PLC asked each new Scout to fill out a form giving first and second choice of the patrol they wanted to join, and a buddy. The PLC took the forms and divided the Scouts up, trying to give first choice or buddy to every Scout while keeping the patrols to 8 boys each. In the end, it worked out pretty well. We wanted this all completed in early May so the patrols had time to start really Forming and go on at least one campout together before we headed off to summer camp (3rd week of June). This was a real importance to us since we cook in camp.

None of our Scouts are earning FC in 12 months. It is closer to 16 - 18 months. We aren't having any problems with retention. As has been pointed out, I think the real problem with retention comes if the Scout does earn FC/FY, and gets Eagle fairly early - you lose them soon after. We run an active program - most boys meet the Activity requirement for FC in 8 or 9 months. But to learn the skills, it takes longer than that. We don't hold a "Scout Skills" campout as some Troops do, which may slow us down compared to some. We view advancement as one of the 8 methods, not as the most important part of the program. We had a wilderness survival campout this past weekend. I had one Scout ask what First Class rank advancement requirements he would be able to complete on this trip. The only one was #1, which he had completed, so he didn't attend the trip. IMO, he has the wrong focus on the program - it isn't just to complete requirements and earn badges - it is to have fun and learn. On this trip, the boys built shelters using only natural materials, and slept in them. They started fires without matches. They learned how to properly use a signal mirror. And they had a LOT of fun while doing it! This Scout missed all of that because he was solely focused on a rank badge. He is from a wealthy family, goes to a private school, and participates in a lot of activities. I think he needs to slow down and smell the roses.

"Your organization has the Scouting program on charter from the Boy Scouts of America, but the Scouting units and their leaders belong to the organization and are part of its "family." True. Source: The Chartered Organization Representative, How Scouting Operates, The Units Belong To Your Organization pg. 3 #33118D "Packs, Troops, Teams, and Crews are owned, operated and administered by community-based organizations whose objective, mission and methodologies are compatible with those of the BSA." On the back cover.

Eamonn, To me, that third bead represents both the personal and team effort that went in to producing the course. In the courses I staffed, we all worked our rearends off, and pushed each other to do our absolute best. I worked harder on preparing those courses than I do at my job! Making presentatations and memorizing, getting critiqued on everything we did - all the while knowing it was all done to improve, not to tear anyone down. It was a very rare environment of teamwork that we reached that high performance level - all seeking to achieve the same goal. And all done for no pay, except for a little wooden bead that I could carve in a couple of minutes. Anyone can call me an egotist if they want. Those beads remind me that achieving high performance as a team is possible, with the right leadership. And when things get chaotic, as they often do in Scouts, I need that little reminder.

BadenP, God has blessed me in more ways than I can count. I know I am undeserving of His gracious blessings. I don't need to recount them for you or anyone else. God has also given me the task of suffering fools like you. So, your boorish behavior is neither shocking nor surprising; it is actually expected. Have a nice day.

Sounds like urban legend. The Insignia Guide mentions the 3 and 4 beads but doesn't say anything about wearing them only during the course. Two of our council pro's, who played parts in writing the 21st Century syllabus, both wear their 4 beads all the time. All the CD's I know wear their 4 beads. We put on 3 courses/year, so we have lots of CDs.

"Technically, you only wear the extra beads during the course. Once it is over you're supposed to go back to the two beads." Source, please. I'd still serve, as you get to go thru the course twice more while staffing (in course development & in the actual course). It was an honor to receive the third bead, and I wear them all the time when in uniform. The CD's I served under each made the three beads we were given as staff, and they were made from trees that were removed in order to create Gilwell Field at our Wood Badge area (back in the 1970's). So, each set of beads is special.

I don't see how Mr. & Mrs. Obama helped Chicago's case much, at least by what they said. Michele's dad had MS, so bring the games to Chicago? Huh? Obama wants to walk out his door and be at the Olympics? That's a reason? Sorry, but they didn't say anything to build the case for Chicago. I guess they were just counting on their celebrity status. In the end, it probably didn't matter much - the deal was already done. I did find it humorous that the Obama's were treated like rock stars by IOC members beforehand, and then Chicago was tossed in the first round. It's hard to imagine another city out-bribing Chicago. Daly is probably insulted.

"While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school. Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests -- Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days)." http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/62341797.html

No, apparently appearance doesn't matter at all. BTW, that small-minded 4-bead, 30+ year Scoutmaster (50+ years total) that lacks control over his personal life wouldn't have to worry about an appeal - he just wouldn't let the EBOR begin if the Scout wasn't in uniform.

Yep, shame on any of us for suggesting we should hold Eagle candidates up to any kind of standard. Sure, we are a uniformed organization and all, but that doesn't matter. They are all going to pass anyway, so let's just do away with the whole charade. What's the point? Right, OGE?

mbrown, You might want to also check the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures booklet. In case you don't have it, I'll quote it: Boards of Review The Scout should be neat in his appearance and his uniform should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. pg. 30 Parlor Scouts? Anyone who calls an active Scout (or Scouter) a "Parlor Scout" because he takes pride in wearing his uniform correctly has no business being in the program.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)