King Ding Dong

Or I am going as GE and Exxon and not give you any candy because I deserve all of it.

Brew that's the first thing that came to my mind but that is mentioned in the piece. They want to do more, but I think a handwritten thank you note and active participation should be the best.

No summer camp as a troop would be a no go for me. Not sure what I think of HA, but once every three years seems a little slim. Everybody has their own thing, but the concept of carrying a canoe is just foreign to me. Do you push your car for fun ? Besides every time I get out of a canoe I spill my beer and pollute the river. I like going on the campouts and observing from a distance and helping when needed. With this big troop I don't think I would have much to offer, at least without some beads. Then again I could use that time for family activities/camping and let him have his own time away from me for real independence. It would be neat to find that troop that sends patrols out by themselves for at least a day hike or a patrol like BD's that hang out together. In the culture of the burbs I may not find it. What I just don't understand is why these troops/patrols are not extremely active in the summer outside out council camps. Sure its hot and muggy here but they really have the time to tackle something like the Cycling MB and rack up major time/distance for the NOAs. The demands of homework and school clubs don't leave much time for that kind of thing during the school year.

I stopped Mom from buying the boys the Velcro shoes a couple of years ago. Fine motor skills and knot tying are good. Velcro only good for position patches.

A Scout is thrifty.

I totally agree they don't need to eat every hour but there are some unique factors to kids. They do go through growth spurts that sometimes last a few days or a couple of weeks. There are times with my youngest that you just can't seem to keep him full. Hollow Leg Syndrome. I think the problem arises when parents get in that habit and then don't back it down. When my boys get home from school I don't automatically fix a PB&J, I make them ask for it. At least with my youngest I can see a direct correlation in hunger with energy expended. I had to pick him up for a dentist appt last week and it was a nice day so we grabbed the dog and went for a 2.5 mile hike at the state park. We stooped at DQ afterwards, then he ate 2 servings of dinner at 7:00 then got out of bed at 9:30 and was starrrrrvvvving. I think he had a whole apple and another big serving of corn. Another trick I learned is to stop trying to serve them healthy snacks, but to just leave a bowl of grapes or carrot sticks out on the table. When they are running around they will just stop by and grab a few when they are hungry. Much easier than begging Mom or Dad for a snack. No weight problems here, but have to buy slim pants with the elastic clinchers. . Me, that's another story.

I have mentioned this before because I want to do it with my son. I like the idea of the boys delivering butts, ribs or brisket to Sunday Football parties. Create an order menu and promote it to the guys with the big plasmas on the other side of the beltway. Butts wrapped in towels and in a cooler stay hot for hours. Selling sandwiches is good but think big. How about when you get that license you work on catering some corporate lunches or picnics. Better yet offer to cater some B&Gs for the rich white guys. You have a whole crew to do all the cleanup and serving. Got any car dealers around that want a promotion for their customers.

I am sticking with the Pack for my younger son even though we are having parental involvement issues. A full on strong Cub program just doesn't seem as important to me now. Better he sticks with his classmates. I really feel if he stays with his current troop he will be cheated out of so much of what Scouting has to offer. Sure he will get his Eagle by 14, no problem, but at what cost ? If he was really good friends with any of the other boys I might think differently. It's more the relationships I have built that is holding me back. It is not about me. If we went with this one troop they would likely have little use for me other than as a driver, I have the bug and not sure I want to give it up.

Thanks Matt. Yeah in the end that meeting was rather boring. The whole thing was in that one room. To a large degree a lecture with q&a. Will want to see another meeting. The chuck boxes was only 5-10 minutes, though. That could indicate they are to focused on cubical skills. Will want to check out a PLC meeting as well. One Scouter said they just had elections, so the PLs do not have much responsibility right now and that is a focus of their efforts right currently. Hell honesty is good and they know what needs improvement. They did Canada this summer and SeaBase next summer. Had at least some go to Jambo. My troop does HA each summer even if it is only 2 or 3 scouts and combine with another contingent. Another high profile troop with several district staffers is one a cousin was in years ago. But no summer weekend trips or meetings and seem to do a lot of bus trips to Chicago or DC. They seem to like visiting buildings and landmarks. and that is all likely expensive. In a write up on the website they was a comment " ...then we all climbed back into the Greyhound type bus like we usually do." Though they did a trip to Yellowstone for summer camp a year or two ago. My son seemed very welcomed and gently guided on where to stand, lineup etc. He knew one scout from middle school, a plus. There certainly was no chaos as in my troop. They all seemed very well disciplined. That could certainly be seen as a negative as well. I don't think there was much need for signs up. Hmmm, were they really having fun ? How often do most troops have a PLC meeting ? Other than calendar planning I am unaware of any in my troop.

Sounds like Cub Scouts to me. I don't know how far the typical scout ranch is from other major cities, but we have 2,200 acre property within about 30-40 minutes of most of the inner city. At least for Troops, it shouldn't be to difficult to set up bus transport at least a couple of times a year to a camporee field and some hikes. As a service project I have always thought troops should host more disadvantaged troops for weekend outings. However as BD describes his experiences with the parents the culture clash could just be to great an obstacle to overcome. That pesky GTSS makes leaving the parents behind difficult for cub ages. Hopefully they don't have any drive by shooting problems.

My issue with WB is the beaders capturing you and then droning on and on about the Zulus and Boer War and they all give the same damn speech. Does WB do damage to people ? I do not know, but it sure seems to instill a air of arrogance about them. If all our Eagles acted like Wood Badgers they and constantly puffed themselves up about how great they are because they camped for two weekends, there would be no scouts left.

I agree Moose, no reason they need a snack for a 6:30 or 7:00 meeting. If they are coming from soccer practice the crumbs can stay in the minivan. Pack meeting where we are outside we may have refreshments. Last year at evening den meetings they had a rotation on snacks but I squashed that because it devolved into cheap Little Debbie snack cakes and that is not what you need for all the crummy school work and crafts for Wolves. This year we are having after school meeting so they need a snack, but parents are responsible for packing one for their son. 10 minute snack time before the meeting begins.

Unconditional Surrender by Tuesday. Except they can keep their Emperor.

See anything about tied bootlaces on that sheet ?

I hate when that happens. damn you iOS.

Thanks for your opinion, keep them coming. Actually I bet those committee meetings run like clockwork. Any training event here I have been to have timers in the back with countdown flip charts and hand signals to keep things moving on schedule. I am curious what kinds of problems a Dads Of CO would have over one run by clergy ? My current on is a PTO and all they do is sign applications. I know, I am now PTO President. In theory I quite like the idea of the dads having an interest in a troop and hot having interference from professional clergy or a PTO that doesn't give a damn. While I am intrigued by the idea of a 300' troop from my inquiries, that animal appears to be extinct in my neck of the woods. But you never know. The generals ? One was a dad I talked two, the others were to old to plausibly be parents. I talked to the dad and he was evaluating the meeting to give feedback at a brief PLC after the meeting. This troop has several old scouters as ASMs. Why do dads whose sons have aged out of scouts stick around and help out troops ? Ask the board, we have a lot of them here. Is it a boy run troop, from the surface it appears more boy run than mine. The Scouters claim it is. What tests should I apply to make that determination ? That is a critical fact to get right, I doubt you will find any Scouter boast about his adult led troop. The dark shoes and socks thing is new to me but sure seems to be the culture among district level Scouters around here. I mention my troops uniform problem and the ASM said their "problem" was with shoes and socks. I took it to mean very minor. I just remembered I stated one thing incorrectly. The SM did speak in the middle of the meeting when the SPL asked him a question.

What can I say, this board spoiled me. I know there is better out there now and not to accept the status quo. Sign us up for the 50 cents dues per week troop. How on earth do you expect an 11 year old new to a metro area of 3M to find and evaluate a new troop, when he is just discovering what BS are and do ? The one friend he has made is not allowed by his mother to be a scout. Beascout.org is a useless here.

Politicians, not positions.

I won't speculate in the genesis. But it sure doesn't help when we have positions railing against those "over educated Ivy League intellectuals". Yep lets lower our education bar. Or "I don't listen to economists regarding monetary or fiscal policy. I raised a family and learned all I need to know". (Slight paraphrase)

Lots of great questions. I know a few of the answers. Yes NSP then mixed in. Patrols are determined by SM with input from Scouts to keep as many friends as possible. At meeting they were seated as patrols, will have to see how they operate in the field. Yes mixed age. Six month elections, not sure if they are reorganized. Non-trained adults are allowed on events to observe, SM said the friendly hand on the shoulder if they get to close. From photo gallery looks like lax on activity uniforms. Looks like they encourage complete uniform. Only one scout was out of uniform, other than socks and shoes. 13 Eagles last year. 90 scouts. Not sure what to make of that. This is in the best school district in the state. Not one peep out of an adult until the very end and announcements were short. Unlike summer camp this year where they went on forever. The SPL and two others were running the show and seemed to be well prepared with clipboards. SM said all were NYLT. topic was cooking/safe food handling. They brought in 3 chuck boxes, set them up and did and inspection. Must say I was impressed with their public speaking abilities. Judging by photo gallery they are not in a rut but seem to do a battlefield hike each year. jblake has to like that.

Thanks Kudu I value your input. We just relocated a year ago and my oldest crossed over from the feeder pack 6 months ago. I am now IH so I could force change, but but few would follow.

I have been tried to remain optimistic about change, but 6 months of effort have proved futile so far. SM is mine in 6 months if I want it, but the parents are not going to want me. I have talked to many of them and they like things just how they are. Low drag, Eagle and done. They Talk the talk about do nothing POR but don't hold their own sons accountable. Could only find one other dad to take climbing training. On said to me "I can't take any more training because then I will be asked to go on more of these things". What do you say to that ? CC wants the boys to do more, but wont push the issue, because the troop is small. Won't support removing PORs for failure to do anything. Current SM obviously won't do anything about it. The only thing the PLC plans is what they want to do and patrol menus. Scouting skills amount many of the parents is not the big problem, it is knowledge of what things should be like and they don't want to hear it. They want their Eagle however they can get it as long as it doesn't interfere with football, soccer, fall ball or lacrosse. I just sat on a BOR for an 18 month Life, I read the GTA, not much I could do since the troop will not set expectations for PORs. I thought I could slowly change things, but without parental buy in I am not so sure I can. Where does they leave my son ?

You must have missed this. "I plan on visiting at least three troops and make sure he spends at least a couple of meetings and one outing before jumping ship. I don't want to bounce around." However that will prove expensive as troop dues are next month.

He seemed fine with it. Hey, they threw out jolly ranchers for correct answers. . He has a concern about leaving his patrol, but it is now down to 4 it will need to be integrated soon. The past few meetings have been small enough there was really no dividing into patrols. I think he will have a better feeling for it after the campout. Ultimately it will be his choice, but he is so new to BS he doesn't really understand there is a forest to see. I plan on visiting at least three troops and make sure he spends at least a couple of meetings and one outing before jumping ship. I don't want to bounce around. One thing I forgot to mention was the meeting schedule in two troop meetings a month, one patrol meeting and, one PLC meeting. Can't remember what they do with the 5th 4 times a year. I suspect the generals surround the monthly PLC and coach, might see if I can drop in on one.

As many of you know I have not been thrilled with the program in our troop. It is not fully active, does not meet during summer outside camp and HA, mostly do nothing PORs except for SPL, low participation rate, ad hoc patrols, highest active age is 14, "high speed, low drag". Not everything is horrible about it, and there are some really great people but it certainly is not turning out as I envisioned. Seems like a great troop for boys involved with a lot of other activities. There is not enough parental involvement or scouting knowledge to change things. My son if young for his grade just turned 11, ADHD, awkward, geeky, skinny, glasses, not strong, not good with team sports, a bit emotionally immature, does not have many close friends, recently we relocated from out of state. He loves scouts and wants to go to every meeting and outing, but doesn't really know other options exist. Especially from information acquired from this board I do know are other choices. I am not sure what I am looking for, but this isn't it. We are not a organized religion family, so I am leery of the influence a church based unit, but not completely opposed. We visited a fairly close unit last night that had these components. "Dads of" CO that meets in basement of City Hall Trailer Troop with well stocked storage room. 90 scouts, about 40 at last nights meeting, ages up to 16-17 1 short term per month, 1 local activity per month, several scheduled service projects No 300', citing safety issues. Told committee of 40, 20 have WB, hoard of ASMs Fundraising through concessions at city events and pizza sales, scout accounts, no popcorn sales Estimated program cost including summer camp $1000-1500/yr Told scout can pay his full amount if participates in all fundraising. At the back of troop meeting there was a table of 3 Banana Republic Generals taking notes to provide feedback after the meeting to the PLC. Meeting was completely boy led, with only a few announcements at the end by a couple of adults, one was inviting some older scouts on a Venture activity. Recognized at least 3 of the leaders on District Training Staff. T1 requirements: SM acknowledged they lean more toward the "once and done" side of the scale than mastery, but emphasize continued learning through teaching the younger scouts. SM said about 50% participation rate on outings. Only occasional need to combine a patrols. Patrols seemed about 10 at meeting. Their uniform "problems" they are working on are correct shoes and socks. Most boys had collars folded under, with neckers. At my troops last meeting only a couple of the scouts had a uniform shirt on, some had a troop t shirt. Son was invited as a guest to Fall Camporee in a couple of weeks. Our PLC opted out as it is "boring". Run TLT one day twice a year. Decent mix of outings including hikes, climbing, pioneer kit, wilderness survival, caving, float trip (Canoe MB required), cabin, midnight ski, zipline, no COPE however. When my wife heard no popcorn sales the response was "What are you waiting for, JOIN NOW, I'm not kidding !" My thoughts are this is 100 times better Thoughts ? What should I be looking for, what questions do I need to ask ? Should all the Critters scare me away, or assure me at least some minimal standards are maintained ?