Krampus

Council and district have gone to using CampMaster for sign ups. Patch counts are based on paid registrants, usually well in advance of the cut off. After that, the patches are run. Leftovers are sold at the council shop. I doubt, but don't know for sure, if council tracks the profit/loss on patches ordered versus sold versus unsold.

In our unit we make it work with the mixed patrols. The older Scouts really take the younger ones under their wing. Without orchestrating anything at the adult level, it is funny to see that the younger Scouts in a patrol will tent together while the older Scouts do the same. Rarely do you see a 17 year old and an 11 year old. When you do see it, the younger guys learn a great deal. It all depends on your older Scouts.

...but not bubble ball. Go figure.

Age appropriate patrol? You are assuming all troops have new scout patrols or younger boy patrols. Some don't and start off mixed from the beginning. If he's 10 and has his AOL he can join Boy Scouts in BSA's eyes. @@Phrogger, I would talk to the troop and see, once he crosses over, if there's not some way he can be aligned with his friends his age.

We all know there is. It is not the project that makes one a better Eagle, it is what they did on their path to Eagle. Do I have Eagles I wish I had not moved on? Yes, of course. Out of the 110+ our unit has awarded over the many years, there have been 2-3 that -- IMHO -- did the absolutely bear minimum to move on. Are they lesser Eagles than others? Strictly speaking, no. Are they lesser in their growth and development than they could have been (and comparatively to other Eagles), then yes. The irony is that these were all top-notch honor students. Essentially they did the bear minimum to get by in Scouting, whereas, they would never even think of short-changing themselves academically.

That's entirely it, @@Stosh. Our unit does this quarterly. We run a report that covers attendance at meetings, service projects and camping. Anyone not meeting our well-established and (monthly) communicated "active" policy, they get an email for an SMC to discuss their level of activity. When we first started this program we have many 14-16 year olds that fell in to that bucket. Within one year we ended up sending out maybe 5 of these notes a year. It has been three years since we have had to send a single one. We have a Scout now who is close. Parents divorcing, he's withdrawn from everything. Working on his Eagle. Turns 18 next year. Has he been around the last 18 months for the 50%? Nope, not even close. Did we sign his workbook? You bet! We also had a talk about how, when things go pear-shaped in life, you need to find that inner courage to persevere. He agreed...then broke down and said that Scouts reminded him of his dad and how absent he was now in his life. After all three of us (two adults, one Scout) dried our eyes, we signed his paperwork and wished him luck on his BOR. Best Eagle ever? Hardly. But I don't regret for a minute signing his stuff and moving him along. Maybe, just maybe, what we as adults did for him may help make him a decent father one day.

If their training for the CSEs is like their adult volunteer training, the first module is "Make Council Successful". The sole content being "Go and make the council successful." That was their "Get more minorities to join Scouting" training. In a nutshell they said "Go get more minorities to join Scouting." Why didn't we think of that?

This guy should be put in charge of training the trainer (Scouts). Have him develop your TLT, teach it and then get out of the way. That's a great way to leverage his skills and enthusiasm BUT get him out of the Scouts' hair.

Well, that's interesting because my family answered that question when we crossed over. We could have gone with the one of the mega troops (120+) in our area that use the "boy led" catch phrase like Nike uses "Just Do It", but we decided to join a smaller (50-75) person troop where the boys ran the show. Still went and did 90% of the fun stuff the mega troop did. In fact, we got in to some things they couldn't because they were too big. During the last seven years my kid has had the opportunity to learn and grow. He's a real leader with strong planning and outdoor skills. Rather than have adults do stuff for him he's done them for himself. He's not felt he miss out on anything. How do I know the difference. I look in Scouting Magazine and see my kid's Eagle project listed in their before/after section and just smile. The entire thing was planned soup to nuts by him. Pouring concrete, laying stone, ordering materials, seeking funding, managing Sweet 16 and all the other stuff...all him. And then I look at the Eagle projects from the mega troop. A simple park bench in a park that looks like it came from a kit and assembled by 4 adults and 4 Scouts. I just sit back and smile.

It gets you an adult who realizes that, once you turn 18, the world is not going to wipe your chin and give you a goodnight kiss every night. It teaches them that everything worthwhile (DMV) or required (IRS) has a process. You must follow that process and endure a little pain in order to reap the benefits your time investment. It teaches them that, as an adult, saying "Dude, your girlfriend is hot." to his nearly 18 Venturing friend is considered by adult YPT standards to be wrong...very wrong. Taking adult YPT welcomes him to being an adult and taking the adult courses...as silly as they are. Now, if they wanted to argue the logic and reasoning behind taking IOLS when they are an Eagle Scout, staffed Rayado and summer camp, taught first year Scouts for seven years and have the outdoor skills of Les Stroud, well then, I am all ears. I agree that would be a total waste of time. But 30 mins to click through some ridiculous scenarios and get a certificate? C'mon, they spend more time posting to Instagram than it would take to do YPT. Better question...why should WE have to take a course that never changes having taken it 6-8 times over the last 12-16 years?

YPT is less than 30 mins. The application is five minutes to fill out and then give it to the membership person to bring to council. Med form, if not done, is 5 minutes to fill out. If these kids have even filled out ONE college application they've spent 10 times the amount of time doing that than they will spend on getting "street legal" to be an adult on a BSA event. They're going to get seriously disappointed when they hit those instant gratification relievers that are DMV and IRS.

Growth will happen, but what kind of growth will occur? Will the boys learn to plan for themselves? Nope. Will the boys learn how to cook, clean or manage small and large groups? Nein. Will they learn that, no matter what they forget or fail to bring, someone else will always be there to cover them? BINGO!!! Those kids will have fun to be certain. Ask anyone if they'd rather have a vacation where everything is managed a la cruise ship style, or if they'd rather plan out and do everything themselves. They will take the former every time. NOW ask them under which system would they learn the most to eventually be self-sufficient, productive members of society. They will pick the latter...unless they are totally brainwashed Nanny-Staters.

I would agree. In the past, other SMs in our unit have changed the patrol construct to suit their vision and, presumably, how they *think* the unit will function in such a construct. They each claim their system (e.g., NSP, older boy/younger boy, mixed) has worked. In reality they all have not. Each has had their own successes and failures. In our experience the NSP was great at getting Scouts to FC fast, however, the quality suffered despite having a great new Scout program. The down side was that this system created a "Been there, done that" mentality which caused Scouts to check out from 14-16. They had no idea what came next and how to work within an older boy unit. Went to mixed patrols and it solved that issue. Guys were engaged longer in their timeline.

I could maybe see if the scout wasn't as active AND the unit had warned him well in advance he was below their active threshold. But waiting until the scout wants his workbook signed? That's poor management, guidance and advice on the adult's part.

@@Hedgehog is right on the instant coffee. Hmart has a great coffee section. Tons of freeze dried coffees at a fraction of the cost of Sbux.

After third grade we went straight in to the adult world earning a living. But for those few years we walked 7 miles up hill both ways.

Heck, we didn't do the B-P method when *I* was in Scouts. You were assigned a patrol and you liked it, made friends if you didn't know guys and didn't complain if you had problems. Now we coddle and tuck them in at night...two deep, of course.

They button on the right.

Axe yard protocol is a safety concern. At that point all due respect is put aside.

With all due respect to Mr. Smith, he's been told to stay out of the kids' hair unless it is a health or safety reason. He ought to know better than to be there in the first place. He ought to know better than to address the Scouts rather than addressing the PL or SPL. He ought to know better than to be over there without a second adult anyway. When Mr. Smith starts respecting the SM, the troop rules, BSA policy and the youth leaders, Mr. Smith can gripe about not being addressed with the phrase "With all due respect...". Just sayin'.

@@CalicoPenn and @@Stosh are right, the Council will step in a fix. As we discussed in another thread, in the Guide to Advancement there's a section (4.2.3.1) the BSA strictly defines what "active participation" means. There are essentially three criteria and a fourth (which they call the "alternative to the third test"). A Scfout must be: Registered. In good standing (i.e., not on probation at any recognized level). Scout meets the "unit’s reasonable expectations; or, if not, a lesser level of activity is explained". This means two things. First, the unit must have a PRE-ESTABLISHED level of what they define as "active participation". Some units have this in their bylaws or other documents; usually it is 50% or so of certain activities. This must be communicated to the Scout and must be established BEFORE the unit can invoke it. Second, if the Scout falls below any established unit threshold, he can explain it by participation in other activities (school, sports, band, clubs, NHS, religious orgs, community service, etc.). The alternative to the third test is this: "If a young man has fallen below his unit’s activity oriented expectations, then it must be due to other positive endeavors—in or out of Scouting—or due to noteworthy circumstances that have prevented a higher level of participation. A Scout in this case is still considered “active†if a board of review can agree that Scouting values have already taken hold and have been exhibited." As long as Council is involved you should be in good shape...assuming they follow their own rules AND there is nothing hidden here that we cannot see. Good luck. Sorry to hear the adults are being such, well, you know. I am sure @@fred johnson has a few thoughts on this issue. We've discussed this before.

If you get close to the deadline without a CO, try another unit that has a CO that might be willing to "host" you temporarily. Had to do that after the 2013 membership debacle for 5 units in the area. They eventually found COs but they had temporary COs for 3-4 months while they sorted out a permanent home. District wasn't much help so the units had to do it on their own. Ours is too far south for ya and already has three units or I'd offer up us has a source. If you need other help reach out.

Yup, the SM and all the ASM need to help enforce this. In our unit the boys use the phrase, "I have this Mr. Smith." and that's your cue to go get a cup of coffee or go whittle something (in the axe yard).

Got someone lined up?

Further east we do 4-6 ordeals (two in spring, 1-2 during the summer [i know, right], 2 in the fall and one at winter camp). Never seen an OA-only camp out. A few projects, not many. Maybe an ice cream social at council summer camp during the last week.